George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #13 Thursday July 11

[Nezumi]

But, but, but.....shouldn't the defense be objecting to the outright lies?

I've been told that it's considered a breach of etiquette to object during a closing argument.

 

[raisincharlie]

In my mind, that's the bottom line. TM would still be alive if GZ had stayed in his car. Just trying to keep it simple.

IMO - TM would also still be alive if he had listened to RJ on the phone, who told him to get home fast. Also keeping it simple. Unfortunately, bad judgement by both individuals. It might also have helped if the person on the non-emergency line had not kept asking every 30 seconds which way TM went...also simple. Lots of things went wrong.

 

[krimekat]

In my mind, that's the bottom line. TM would still be alive if GZ had stayed in his car. Just trying to keep it simple.

or stayed at his father's fiance's condo as RJ indicated

 

[Linda7NJ]

Sheaffer just said that this was a poor closing. Also said that it's being reported that one juror won't make eye contact with BDLR (if I heard correctly) and that's "not good." JMO. OMO. MOO.

Heard that in every trial I've ever followed. It means nothing. IMO

 

[PaperDoll]

I don't know that that was TM. She said she heard Get off but listening to GZ voice I believe it was GZ saying that. Not TM. Especially when it was TM that approached GZ.

Is there a recording of RJ's call where you can here GZ saying "get off, get off?"

 

[Horace Finklestein]

So where is Bernie's proof of his case?? They cannot be serious with this closing imo.

 

[Nezumi]

A history review might be in order.

I was being tongue in cheek. My bad. I actually don't believe that finding anyone guilty of anything based on one person's subjective definition of "morality" is a good thing. In fact, I think it's a bad thing.

 

[AngelWings444]

Why would the same 2 men come back to the scene of their crimes? There are plenty of communities in Sanford.
GZ was making the "assumption" that if the last burglars were AA, the future ones would be.
This is called profiling.

They wouldn't. They were in jail, already arrested. There is a link someone to their arrest weeks prior to GZ killing Trayvon. :twocents:

ETA: WS members have said only one was arrested. No link provided but I will trust them until I have a chance to look.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Yes, I'd call it...
Reverse Jury Nullification

I do understand what you're saying, Linda. But what you stated is my fear. This is a court of law that relies on evidence rather than emotion.
I hope the jurors follow the law.

IMO

 

[gxm]

Heard that in every trial I've ever followed. It means nothing. IMO

Which one, poor closing or no eye contact… or both?

 

[m1279]

Dang. These lies are really hard to listen to.

IMO

Can you imagine how GZ feels sitting there listening to this? Ugh.

 

[Wolfpack Fan]

As far as the person on top, Zimmerman said that after he shot Trayvon, he got on top of Trayvon and stretched out his hands because he thought that Trayvon had something in his hand when he was hitting him. Do you think maybe this is when the people saw Zimmerman on top? At least one witness said that only one person got up-- the one on top. Then the person on top started walking back and forth. Then the neighbor came out with a flashlight. Trayvon's pants had grass stains on the knees. George's clothing had grass stains on the back.

If the jury goes by the law, they have to assume that Trayvon started the fight because there is no evidence that suggests who started it. If there are two possible outcomes, one that suggests guilt and the other that suggests innocence, the jury has to go with the one that suggests innocence.

 

[greycoupon]

I'm in class. Is this worth going back later to watch? Two more of hours of the prosecution and the defense is up tomorrow?

 

[Karmady]

Yes from the safety of your computer keybord not under any physical or emotional distress. I think we would all like to think we would be magnanimous enough to provide aid. However, if GZ's account is accurate, he yelled for help for 40 secs. and TM didn't relent. As well as no one helping him. To not understand their might be some residual resentment or hestancy to aid is understandable.

MOO

I know it never would have crossed my mind and I don't feel bad about that at all. My "human compassion" goes out the window when you attack me or mine. After that, you're a criminal and I'm as concerned about your welfare as you were about mine when you attacked me. jmo

 

[faw720]

RJ also testified that Trayvon was being followed and he said "GET OFF, GET OFF." Doesn't sound like self-defense. Sounds like Trayvon wanted GZ to GET OFF of him. If someone was "on" me, I would sock them in the nose too. IMO

All in my post is IMO. I have seen a few fights & typically people seem to roll around...........first one is on top & then the other on top. Couldn't this account for the differences in eye witness testimony? It could also account for GZ's injuries to the back of his head if they were rolling around on the cement. If GZ had "serious" injuries why didn't he go to the hospital to get checked out? I received an extremely hard blow to my head (my temple) in a car accident & I couldn't wait to get to get it checked out. My head started swelling almost immediately. Of course they did a CAT scan & thankfully all was ok. But, even with numerous ice packs, the swelling did not completely go away until over a week had passed. A few days after the accident I also had a very black eye. Why, if GZ claimed serious injury, were his injuries not documented by photos for several progressive days to show the serious extent of his injuries?

 

[marlap]

Does not matter. He was not waving it around threatening anyone. He was on the ground under TM and he was being beaten. He did not shoot TM upon first hit.. He yelled for help, scared, alone, beaten... And only when he felt that his life was in jeopardy he shot.

That is self defense. The very definition.

He was waiting for help and it never came.

All below is just my opinion....

But, there is no evidence that GZ never showed TM his gun. IMO, there is no witness who saw/heard every moment of the transactions between the two.

It makes sense that TM would have hit GZ in an effort to get away from a stranger who may have pointed a gun at him, even briefly.

There is no evidence that GZ showed his weapon and there is no evidence that he did not show it at some point.

TM hitting GZ for absolutely no reason makes no sense.

TM hitting GZ because GZ somehow threatened him does make sense.

In short, I don't believe a word of what GZ says, there is no witness who saw/heard everything that happened...but I agree the case is not proven.

There is reasonable doubt to acquit of 2nd degree murder...just IMO, GZ is going to get away with it because of lack of evidence.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Whatever happens in the end, I hope GZ is NEVER allowed to own a firearm again. Imo, he was careless. Just because you CAN run around with a loaded gun on your person, doesn't mean you should. Not everyone is responsible enough with weapons. I feel George acted in haste, and having a gun made him feel stronger. All my opinion.

If he's found not guilty why would he not be allowed to carry a weapon? He did the right thing and was lucky he had his gun that night imo. Now there are death threats, etc against him, he deserves to protect himself imo.

 

[krimekat]

But, but, but.....shouldn't the defense be objecting to the outright lies?

No objections during closing (and opening) arguments It is not customary to raise objections during closing arguments, except for egregious behavior. However, such objections, when made, can prove critical later in order to preserve appellate issues.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closing_argument"]Closing argument - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[RR0004]

This happens every night and day in the areas I live in or live near. And my son who is LE says it never makes the news unless it is a child, very small or an athlete. Then it makes big news. It makes me wonder if we would have even heard about this had TM's parents not turned it into a racial cause and gotten everyone involved. jmo

From what I've read on this thread, profiling was at the very heart of this tragedy. Is that NOT race related? If it was my son, you betcha I'd cry for justice...regardless of his color. LE was very quick to accept everything that GZ said at face value. Why? The parents had every right to seek out answers and state their beliefs, IMO.

 

[ShadyLady]

Iluvmau those two questions are the billion dollar ones.

I have asked very experienced lawyers and no one can predict.

When the jury takes the case we will put up a poll that will focus on guilty or not guilty or guilty of a lesser charge. Be looking for that.

Tricia, WFTV I believe has poll now...."on how pros are doing", only 10% say they are doing ok.

They better pick it up.