George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[nnglas]

It's interesting that her perception on the call was that TM was screaming help me and then GZ shot him. I can see her reasoning at the time. Why would the person with the gun be screaming help me?


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

He was beaten and he was defending himself. It's very very obvious this is what happened.

While I agree that Gz was defending himself, I am not sure it is completely obvious yet. I think that if you are going along with the case as I am, And presuming innocent, Then there is nothing yet to prove anything but what GZ says happened happened.

 

[JudyBolton]

Unfortunately, as a juror, I would probably have to disregard her testimony, even though I didn't find her tetimony to particularly favor one side over the other, although this left to right thing seems important to some for some reason.

From what I've read it is important to the prosecution's narrative that GZ was not returning to his truck (as he stated) but was going the opposite direction and seeking or "chasing down" TM. .

 

[KMouse]

Witness says she heard "pop, pop, pop".

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It's interesting that her perception on the call was that TM was screaming help me and then GZ shot him. I can see her reasoning at the time. Why would the person with the gun be screaming help me?


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My thoughts are that GZ was not thinking about the gun and trying to just get someone to get this kid off of him. If you are not in a Dirty Harry mode and have respect for life the last thing you want to do is shoot anyone.

To me it lends to his credibility.

 

[cityslick]

Witness says she heard "pop, pop, pop".

But is that what an echo would sound like? Wouldn't it be more closer together?

 

[iluvmua]

While I agree that Gz was defending himself, I am not sure it is completely obvious yet. I think that if you are going along with the case as I am, And presuming innocent, Then there is nothing yet to prove anything but what GZ says happened happened.

no there is not

 

[nnglas]

He was beaten and he was defending himself. It's very very obvious this is what happened.

That is obvious to you. TM may have been defending himself. The only thing obvious is GZ was losing a fight, one he wouldn't have got into if he wouldn't have been lurking after someone in the dark.


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[popsicle]

so she didn't see GZ get on TM's back and move his hands out either?? hmm

 

[KMouse]

But is that what an echo would sound like? Wouldn't it be more closer together?

No idea. I am not familiar with shooting firearms. Not sure about the acoustics in the complex either.

 

[iluvmua]

It's interesting that her perception on the call was that TM was screaming help me and then GZ shot him. I can see her reasoning at the time. Why would the person with the gun be screaming help me?


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Why would George not be? He was the one with the broken nose and head wounds.

Why would Trayvon be screaming "help Me" if he was on top of Zimmerman pounding his head into the ground?

He could have gotten off of Zimmerman and just left, he did not.

 

[JudyBolton]

It's interesting that her perception on the call was that TM was screaming help me and then GZ shot him. I can see her reasoning at the time. Why would the person with the gun be screaming help me?


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IMHO it was because GZ was not considering using the gun - he was getting beaten and calling for help. No help came. He says TM saw the gun and went for it - but either way - I think he was calling for someone to get TM off of him as he was physically overpowered. If he was planning all along to use the gun (as the prosecution suggests) why wait until he got beaten up? Why not just draw and fire?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But is that what an echo would sound like? Wouldn't it be more closer together?

No. It would be longer between sounds.. So POP.. then.. beat beat POP.. Then Beat BEat BEat pop... It would not be right after each other if it was echo.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

She seems to be putting in a lot of facts that she could not have known from her observations.

She seems to be adding facts.

 

[nnglas]

My thoughts are that GZ was not thinking about the gun and trying to just get someone to get this kid off of him. If you are not in a Dirty Harry mode and have respect for life the last thing you want to do is shoot anyone.

To me it lends to his credibility.

I'm not sure if I agree with that. I don't believe he murdered TM. I believe it was manslaughter, however I do think he was in Dirty Harry mode because of his statement in the NEN call. That they always get away. I think GZ had decided that wasn't going to happen this night.


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[MeeBee]

But is that what an echo would sound like? Wouldn't it be more closer together?

Well, I just heard the witness describe it and it sounds to me like she heard them very close together, like "poppoppop," is what she said.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

OK really?

How do you get to be her age and not know that some sort of "fire" or "blast" or "explosion" comes out the end of a gun when it is fired? LOL!!

I gotta tell you, that I know that smoke comes out but have never seen anything but a rifle fired and don't know about fire coming out of a gun.

Even on tv I see smoke but I don't know if I have ever seen fire out of a gun.

I know there can be, but I don't know that someone not gun savvy would know.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Why is GZ not Crying or showing remorse at this very moment hearing this woman's trauma after seeing TM body lay lifeless? at this very moment while TMs mom crying?

<modsnip>

 

[iluvmua]

IMHO it was because GZ was not considering using the gun - he was getting beaten and calling for help. No help came. He says TM saw the gun and went for it - but either way - I think he was calling for someone to get TM off of him as he was physically overpowered. If he was planning all along to use the gun (as the prosecution suggests) why wait until he got beaten up? Why not just draw and fire?

This is what I believe, he used his weapon as a last resort when nobody would come out and help him.

exactly, he could have just killed him the first time he saw him (when he was sitting in his truck).

 

[cityslick]

I'm not sure if I agree with that. I don't believe he murdered TM. I believe it was manslaughter, however I do think he was in Dirty Harry mode because of his statement in the NEN call. That they always get away. I think GZ had decided that wasn't going to happen this night.


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Let me ask this, do you believe GZ physically attacked TM first, when there is no evidence that shows that GZ was an aggressive person? (believe the NW supervisor described him as meek).