George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[iluvmua]

Who can he sue?

Trayvon's Mother and Father are planning to sue George

He can sue them, NBC, The Prosecutors, Ben Crump etc.

And I would.

JMO

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2013/2/21/zimmerman_lawsuit_pl.html

 

[cityslick]

Here's what I think about this case. I think the 'unarmed' aspect of the circumstances skews the argument. I think the fact that the one who was unarmed got shot makes people think the rest of the circumstances are irrelevant. I think if both were unarmed and TM wound up dead from another circumstance, it wouldn't be as divided, because then it's 'fair'.

IMO

 

[cityslick]

I have to say that it seems to me that JG keeps vacillating between whether the so-called arm movement ("ground & pound") occurred on the concrete or on the grassy area of the ground...sometimes it sounds, to me, as if JG went directly in an called 911 and while waiting for the call to connect TM was already shot and then from JG's now upstairs window he sees that TM appeared dead. TM's head, by that moment ended up pointed toward JG's patio and perpendicular to the JG patio about 5-10 feet from the sidewalk my estimate).

Still not one witness other than RJ saw or heard who started the physical altercation.

You say that you find JG not to be as credible but yet somehow RJ is? Ask yourself which person has more of a reason to be biased.

 

[magnolia]

I don't agree with that. Your not within your rights to turn around and attack someone who is following you. You can turn around and ask what they are doing, or within your rights to continue to flee from the person or contact 911, but you can't just turn around and jump on the person and start hitting them... that makes you the aggressor.

You are exactly right, IMO.

 

[Irisha]

I don't agree with that. Your not within your rights to turn around and attack someone who is following you. You can turn around and ask what they are doing, or within your rights to continue to flee from the person or contact 911, but you can't just turn around and jump on the person and start hitting them... that makes you the aggressor.

According to Rachel, Trayvon did ask Zimm why he was following him. Appears Zimm did not let him retreat or flee. Then Trayvon was murdered.IMO

 

[Truth Detector]

No, I don't think the photographs were fake, but they do not, nor can they, prove how the injuries occurred.

This is evidence of a struggle. Inconclusive IMO of who initiated contact.

Circumstantial evidence, common sense and the statements of the accused are all foundational.

Zimmerman didn't have the wounds beforehand. There were only two people there, according to witnesses, before others showed up and saw GZ's wounds.

Do you think they were self-inflicted, in secret, with a few seconds?

Not much wiggle room there, huh?

Will he testify?

I don't think he'll need to, given the State's successful defense of GZ -- LOL.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I have an honest and sincere question, if it's been addressed before, please excuse me. I haven't been able to read so many pages of remarks as are generated by this case. I'd like to ask anyone who knows or has an opinion about the term used by TM, *creepy-***-cracker.* Why isn't that phrase or description considered to be a racial slur or extremely derogatory in nature when referring to white people? I just don't get it?

The real reason is, anything TM is perceived as having done wrong is minimized to the point of absurdity. He was just a teen, it doesn't mean anything, he was showing off for Rachel/aka Dee Dee/aka Diamond Gene etc. Forget his past behavior, but examine Zimmerman's under a microscope.

Whereas racism has been imputed to Zimmerman when there is no evidence of any, beyond conclusions reached from specious reasoning. Anything that could be seen as negative toward Zimmerman is amplified to the point of absurdity. Only one person used a racial slur, TM. Jmo

 

[missmazzy]

Exceedingly well said, Boodles!! Aiming to kill will be just one of many factors which shall convict him, imv.

:seeya:

Sounds to me like "grabbing the gun and thrusting upward". Do you honestly think GZ had time or presence of mind to aim?

 

[DIBSY]

He had a cell phone, He could have called 911 or ran to the nearest house banging on the door if he was truly afraid for his life, It's very obvious by Rachel's testimony that Trayvon was right by his father's girlfriend's house at some point.

George was on the phone for 4 minutes or so, TM would have been long gone at that point and would have been back at the place he was staying.

RJ is a total liar (The only thing, I think she is being truthful is the fact that TM told her was right back at his father's girlfriend's house).

JMO

He did run away from GZ who went after him and let it be known he had found him again....TM became frightened AFTER GZ came right up to him and confronted him, according to testimony. IMO I see GZ as the pathological liar, who turned around and filed a Restraining Order on the person who had already signed one against him, who had previously attacked a police officer..I see him an agressor looking for revenge...who called LE when he didn't like the people his ex-roommate invited to the house...Extremely petty, vindictive , power hungry.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...an-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html
These are NOT the sort of NW calls the organization intended ... pot holes? No, only a very few meet the criterion. imv

 

[m00c0w]

According to Rachel, Trayvon did ask Zimm why he was following him. Appears Zimm did not let him retreat or flee. Then Trayvon was murdered.IMO

Or it appears that Martin did not continue to flee, but instead initiated a physical assault on Zimmerman.

 

[DIBSY]

Sounds to me like "grabbing the gun and thrusting upward". Do you honestly think GZ had time or presence of mind to aim?

Absolutely, the placement of the shot is precisely where a sharp shooter would aim to kill, not maime nor warn. IMO

 

[Just K]

You still just can't physically assault someone who is following you. The proper response is to A. continue to flee B. call 911 or what I would have done C. turned around and asked what he wanted.

You can if that person lays a hand on you first! RJ says GZ did almost immediately after answering back TM's question, "why are you following me, for?. After that no one but GZ now knows if he grabbed TM first. TM can't tell us and apparently no live witness can either. So it comes down to whether you believe GZ grabbed at TM.

Please don't forget where TM's phone ended up. Right next to his body! So, JG must have something wrong. His phone went dead, right after RJ lost the ability to hear TM clearly. And, he was shot dead within seconds of her call being dropped. That is indisputable.

 

[Donnareit]

It is a racial slur.

I don't know if it can be considered a racial slur considering its origination. But it is offensive in the way it is being used today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_(pejorative)

 

[legalmania]

Trayvon's Mother and Father are planning to sue him too.

He can sue them, NBC, The Prosecutors, Ben Crump etc.

And I would

Hi how's it going? IMO GZ is going to have a very hard time winning any civil law suits because according to the law he has to have clean hands. Civil and criminal law are very different from each other. A civil suit can drag out for many years and would be very costly. IMO even if GZ won I believe he would end up with very little money, but could win back his reputation to some. There are some people who will never believe he is not guilty.

 

[Truth Detector]

According to Rachel, Trayvon did ask Zimm why he was following him. Appears Zimm did not let him retreat or flee. Then Trayvon was murdered.IMO

"murdered"?

Politically bypassing the Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey has charged GZ with Second Degree Murder.

The crime of Second Degree Murder (in Florida) occurs when a person commits either:

• Murder with a Depraved Mind or
• Accomplice Felony Murder

Murder with a Depraved Mind
Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

Accomplice Felony Murder
Accomplice Felony Second Degree Murder occurs when you are an accomplice to a person who kills another human being while engaged in the commission, or attempted commission, of the following statutorily enumerated felonies, regardless of whether they intended the death:

• Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,
• Aggravated child abuse,
• Aggravated stalking,
• Aircraft piracy,
• Arson,
• Burglary
• Carjacking,
• Distribution of Controlled Substances
• Escape,
• Home-invasion robbery,
• Kidnapping,
• Murder of another human being,
• Resisting Officer with Violence,
• Robbery,
• Sexual battery,
• Terrorism,
• Trafficking in Controlled Substances, or
• Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb.

The State has not alleged Accomplice Felony Murder.

And it cannot prove Murder with a Depraved Mind.

So far, the State seems to be proving a GSW inflicted in order to halt a beating/pummeling.

If the jury gets it, justice will prevail.

 

[AZWatcher]

Yet he kept his distance in all the other 9-11 calls.

Indeed. I guess the Skittles were a deal-breaker this time?

 

[Karmady]

Circumstantial evidence, common sense and the statements of the accused are all foundational.

Zimmerman didn't have the wounds beforehand. There were only two people there, according to witnesses, before others showed up and saw GZ's wounds.

Do you think they were self-inflicted, in secret, with a few seconds?

Not much wiggle room there, huh?

Will he testify?

I don't think he'll need to, given the State's successful defense of GZ -- LOL.

I agree with the bold. Imo, he doesn't need to anymore, if he ever did.

eta: I agree with the rest, too.

 

[Donnareit]

Or it appears that Martin did not continue to flee, but instead initiated a physical assault on Zimmerman.

How long should one flee from an aggressor before it's okay to "stand your ground." And if while you are standing your ground you end up being shot and killed, what is the legal term for that? Curious minds want to know.

 

[AZWatcher]

Based on what?? Following someone is not aggressive and it's perfectly legal. If TM was afraid, he wouldn't have attacked GZ imo.

You have one guy on the phone saying he was being followed by a creepy #$%$%... and the other guy on the phone saying he was FOLLOWING a F#&^$& ... One has a bag of Skittles... the other has a loaded gun. Is there evidence I missed that TM approached GZ?

 

[m00c0w]

Absolutely, the placement of the shot is precisely where a sharp shooter would aim to kill, not maime nor warn. IMO

What evidence do you have that Zimmerman is a "sharp shooter"?

Such a shot would be exceedingly hard to pull off, in my experience, especially on a moving target and in a time of stress. It's more likely that's just where he happened to aim and it just happened to be a fatal shot.

A couple of years ago in Atlanta, a female police officer was shot during a warrant service. She died immediately. The individual fired several rounds, but one of them spun her and the other happened to go under her arm into the area not protected by the vest, and into her heart. Does that make the that shot her a sharpshooter?