George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

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He ran into a tree/object before he encountered TM or during the chase?

If GZ was in very close proximity of TM, such as under TM when the gun was fired, recoil could have damaged his nose. It's not like GZ could have had his arms extended and elbows locked when firing.
 
That face photo was taken from JL's camera (witness). You believe she doctored the photo?

No, I don't believe she doctored it. I do know that the photos taken at the police station look very different. Do you think LE doctored their photos?

ETA: some phones have "effects' capability when taking photos. And, no, I do not believe a person would have used these settings intentionally, but the phone could have been set to that effect earlier and had nothing to do with this case. The way GZ's lower portion of his nose looks reminds me of a "fish eye" photo.
 
If GZ was in very close proximity of TM, such as under TM when the gun was fired, recoil could have damaged his nose. It's not like GZ could have had his arms extended and elbows locked when firing.

JD testified that GZ was on the bottom. If we're going to throw out witness testimony because it doesn't fit the theory, can I throw out the entirety of RJ's testimony? We do that and where are we then?
 
Has anyone heard any speculation as to how long this trial will take?
 
GZ's nose looked normal in the photos taken of him at the police station.

Agreed and I can't explain that. Although the photos were at different angles but I have no real explanation. Just saying that I don't understand how one would think the police officer edited photos taken on his own phone and why for that matter?????

IMO
 
Hello everyone, posting for the first time here. Thanks for sharing such a trove of information. I'm more interested in the logical deduction in this case, so here's my two cents.

IMO, I will assume that GZ will definitely offer a version of events most advantageous to his defense, and TM is dead, so if I were a member of the jury, unless substantiated by facts, GZ's account will be disregarded to place both sides on an equal footing.

So one male is not only 40+ lbs heavier but 12 years older than the other. He was lethally armed with a loaded pistol while the younger man was unarmed. He had been watching and following the latter, in full command of his senses, packed, comfortable about his "turf" and knowing what he was doing when he targeted TM. TM was being followed, and most likely afraid as GZ's identity, intentions, hostility, armed readiness, etc. were completely unknown, and he was a guest in this neighborhood, a stranger.

Clearly one party was far more dominant and in control of the situation, ready to act against someone he already believed to be a "punk" who might get away, trained in MMA, ready to use lethal force if necessary. The other ran away from an uncertain and possibly dangerous situation, unarmed and fearful. One predator, the other prey, it makes sense.

Following a 2-minute altercation, the weaker male died of a fatal gunshot wound at the hands of the dominant male. Based on Occam's Razor, GZ being the aggressor makes the most sense. The test of the pudding is in the tasting, etc...

The Defense is asking us to suspend logic and reason for the 2 minutes to consider an opposite scenario, that despite all of the above conditions, being younger, lighter, thinner, unarmed, more fearful, less experienced in fighting, etc., TM was suddenly able to turn the tables round and potentially deliver lethal injury to GZ. This sudden ability for all of 2 minutes is only supported by GZ's account, as none of GZ's injuries would qualify as life-threatening, and no available medical documentation supports this version of great bodily harm done to GZ.

At the end of these 2 minutes, the events once again follow the earlier logical trajectory - the prey, the younger, weaker, unarmed male is stone-cold dead.

Believing GZ's account for those 2 minutes therefore takes jumping through several hoops. Again, we must remind ourselves that GZ's account is the basis for his defense, therefore should not be given carte blanche.

IMHO, Occam's razor applies, until strong, credible, admissible evidence shows otherwise.
 
From a tweet: Juror B76 is slumped down in her chair as a paramedic describes #Zimmerman's injuries. Not perky. #Trayvon

Do you have the source of the tweet? It would be interesting to know who reported this and what other news peeps say later on today.
 
No, I don't believe she doctored it. I do know that the photos taken at the police station look very different. Do you think LE doctored their photos?

No, I think he was cleaned up when he got to the station.
 
If GZ was in very close proximity of TM, such as under TM when the gun was fired, recoil could have damaged his nose. It's not like GZ could have had his arms extended and elbows locked when firing.

If the slide impacted his nose (which he would have to be holding mighty close to his face for that to happen, might I add), he would at most have a laceration on his nose. The impact of the slide would not be nearly enough to cause swelling or hemorrhaging to the extent we've been shown.
 
OMG, we all know what he said. I believe the commenter is referring to the fact that the NEN said "we don't need you to do that". Why do you keep arguing this point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, he claimed that statement was an order/instruction, and it wasn't. I keep arguing it because it matters and I don't like all of the false info being put out there.
 
Do you have a link for that?

I understood it as the NEN call got disconnected before any conversing with TM and GZ may have occurred.

GZ could'nt remember which pocket his phone was in once GZ said TM spoke to him. Yet, he had his phone to his ear after the gun shot.. If he called someone or 911 we would see record of it.

Oh, I'm not saying George ever called NEN or 911 after his initial phone call. I agree that there is no 911 evidence of a conversation between George and Trayvon.

I was responding to someone saying "someone" was "fibbing" when George said he had called 911. Either he was referring to the NEN or that call was transferred. I don't think he called them after the shot or, if he did, he didn't get connected in time to talk.
 
Have you seen TM's hands after this battle where he punched GZ in the face 30 times? (According to GZ) TMO

No your statement is not entirely correct. I believe the small scratches on the back of his head were caused by his either hiding in or falling into shrubs. I think that most likely the nose injury was caused by his running into some hard object in the dark. IMO he did mention falling into a tree which had mulch around it. You may not believe my theory and you certainly have that right, but please be accurate when you refer to it. Thank you.

I believe this to be a good possibility as to how he got his scratches. He seriously (to me) looks like he fell into a bush. Wouldn't surprise me a bit. My feeling is that his appearance just doesn't jibe with what he claims happened.

"Zimmerman had told officers both at the scene the night of the shooting and afterwards that Martin knocked him down with a punch to his face and then banged his head against the pavement with such force he felt his "head was exploding." He had also stated Martin had punched him up to 25 times, something Serino said was inconsistent with Zimmerman's injuries."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-lead-homicide-investigator-skeptical/story?id=16653793#.Uc3Udpzx-J1

"Zimmerman told Detectives that Martin punched him in the nose so hard that he "fell to the ground when he punched me the first time" and that he was "punched in the nose 25 to 30 times."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/03/1213239/-Officer-s-Cellphone-Pics-Show-Zimmerman-May-NOT-Have-Been-Punched-the-Night-he-Killed-Trayvon

Imo, that sounds like a pretty hellacious beating. 25 to 30 times, directly punched in the face? Head bashed to the point of unconsciousness? Hands over his bleeding nose and covering his mouth? Yikes. So why wasn't any of GZ's blood on TM? On the boy's sleeves? On his hands? Under his nails? That's a lot of times to hit someone and not get anything on you, imho. Same with the head bashing claim. How does one do that to someone (with a wet, slippery bald head, no less), and not get anything on you? I'm not saying GZ didn't get minor wounds. But, imo, how he got them is NOT how he claims he got them. GZ got about 5 minutes worth of treatment, no stitches or even butterfly bandages, some blood on the tip of his nose (looks like a scratch?), he was perfectly stable afterward, and refused further treatment. I'm also a little weirded out that the swelling on his nose on scene is entirely gone in the photos taken at the police station, but okay.

Note: Edited to remove an accidental multi-quote inclusion.
 
GZ's nose looked normal in the photos taken of him at the police station.

imo it looks like he packed his nose cuz it was bleeding, thats the only way i can fathom the nose swelling going away in an hour w/ no medical :twocents:
 
JMO - I think the women on the jury, especially the Mom's will have a hard time knowing GZ didn't react to killing a teenager. How could anyone be so calm and cool after taking someone's life? I would be freaking out, even if it was self-defense. GZ's behavior is <unusual>.
 
That face photo was taken from JL's camera (witness). You believe she doctored the photo?

This is incorrect according to JL's statement on the stand yesterday: She didn't want to go over where GZ was to identify him so the LE officer took the photo on his phone and brought the photo over to show her for identification.

This was my understanding while watching the trial if you have a different version can you provide a link? Thanks
 
So how serious do injuries need to be before it's acceptable to defend ones' self? GZ should have waited to get a concussion I guess. This is absurd. Does the law say you have to be dazed with a concussion or something? Another strike out for the state.
 
Somebody is telling a fib.

We have him talking to the dispatch about where the police are going to meet him inside the complex - so they WERE on the way -- no fib!!
 
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