George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[Isabelle]

JD testified that GZ was on the bottom. If we're going to throw out witness testimony because it doesn't fit the theory, can I throw out the entirety of RJ's testimony? We do that and where are we then?

I am only trying to think this through. If GZ was at the bottom and TM on top, GZ would not be able to have his arms extended and manage to place the bullet into TM's heart, even if TM was sitting straight up. No one's arms bend that way. Lay on your back and see what happens. I don't think it was mentioned that TM was sitting straight up while straddling GZ. Seems he would have been bent forward, if he was pummeling GZ. Only persons who know what happened are GZ and TM.

 

[JeannaT]

JMO - I think the women on the jury, especially the Mom's will have a hard time knowing GZ didn't react to killing a teenager. How could anyone be so calm and cool after taking someone's life? I would be freaking out, even if it was self-defense. GZ's behavior is <unusual>.

Some people remain calm, some people don't.

 

[AngelWings444]

Was there blood from GZ in this officer's vehicle?

 

[cityslick]

JMO - I think the women on the jury, especially the Mom's will have a hard time knowing GZ didn't react to killing a teenager. How could anyone be so calm and cool after taking someone's life? I would be freaking out, even if it was self-defense. GZ's behavior is <unusual>.

Maybe the jury should remove emotion and not focus simply on the fact that TM was a 'teenager' and instead focus on the circumstances/evidence on what the truth really his.

Just because he was young doesn't mean he didn't have the capacity to do bodily harm/death, even without a gun.

 

[Isabelle]

So how serious do injuries need to be before it's acceptable to defend ones' self? GZ should have waited to get a concussion I guess. This is absurd. Does the law say you have to be dazed with a concussion or something? Another strike out for the state.

It would have been so much better if GZ had just gone on to the store where he was heading in the first place, and just let this one "get away with it".

 

[m00c0w]

I am only trying to think this through. If GZ was at the bottom and TM on top, GZ would not be able to have his arms extended and manage to place the bullet into TM's heart, even if TM was sitting straight up. No one's arms bend that way. Lay on your back and see what happens. I don't think it was mentioned that TM was sitting straight up while straddling GZ. Seems he would have been bent forward, if he was pummeling GZ. Only persons who know what happened are GZ and TM.

Why do you feel Zimmerman's arms must have been extended?

 

[TexMex]

He must be pretty clumsy to fall all over the place and run into objects with such force to cause this trauma, but pretty spry to still be able to catch up to Martin even after falling all over the place enough to sustain injuries all over his head, huh?

Exactly. Especially when witnesses testified they saw Trayvon straddling Zimmerman fighting him. :banghead:

I was listening on HLN in my truck and thought the defense case must have started but nope. Prosecution witness saying Zimmerman on bottom being beaten yelling for help!

 

[cityslick]

This is incorrect according to JL's statement on the stand yesterday: She didn't want to go over where GZ was to identify him so the LE officer took the photo on his phone and brought the photo over to show her for identification.

This was my understanding while watching the trial if you have a different version can you provide a link? Thanks

That's right, I stand corrected.

 

[Isabelle]

We have him talking to the dispatch about where the police are going to meet him inside the complex - so they WERE on the way -- no fib!!

Doesn't GZ tell the dispatcher to have police call him when they get there? Seem to remember that from the 911 call.

 

[Karmady]

Agreed and I can't explain that. Although the photos were at different angles but I have no real explanation. Just saying that I don't understand how one would think the police officer edited photos taken on his own phone and why for that matter?????

IMO

If you look at the photos at the police station you can still see the cut and the little "wings" of swelling on the sides. It does look much better. But the EMT who just testifed saw it at the scene and said it was "very" swollen. Go figure. Darn good thing for George that witness took pics at the scene.

 

[AngelWings444]

Wait, so a civilian took the picture of the back of the head, not officers? Hmm.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

It would have been so much better if GZ had just gone on to the store where he was heading in the first place, and just let this one "get away with it".

And equally well if TM hadn't inflicted those injuries on GZ. Hindsight is 20/20...

 

[polleypockets]

So how serious do injuries need to be before it's acceptable to defend ones' self? GZ should have waited to get a concussion I guess. This is absurd. Does the law say you have to be dazed with a concussion or something? Another strike out for the state.

no - imo - if you listen to the reenactment tape and the interviews and the way gz descibes what happened, imo all that could not happen w. out substantial injuries to gz - which is imo - one of the reason i can't believe gz version of events

 

[missmazzy]

Via vehicle. I believe there is a walking path that does not require a code.

Which totally negates the purpose of the gate, IMO.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Back of his pants were wetter than the front.

 

[mom23gr8kids]

If you look at the photos at the police station you can still see the cut and the little "wings" of swelling on the sides. It does look much better. But the EMT who just testifed saw it at the seen and said it was "very" swollen. Go figure. Darn good thing for George that witness took pics at the scene.

Question for anyone with medical knowledge:

If GZ was provided an ice pack or something of the sort at the PD would that have caused the swelling to decrease in that amount of time? what was it like 3-4 hours??

Just trying to understand the difference in photos.

 

[TexMex]

Wait, so a civilian took the picture of the back of the head, not officers? Hmm.

The EMT testified this was how his face and head injuries appeared when she arrived on the scene.

 

[Isabelle]

Why do you feel Zimmerman's arms must have been extended?

Only if TM was straight up while straddling GZ. GZ would have had to have some extension of his arms to place the bullet parallel to his own body, which would be into TM's chest. If TM were chest down on GZ, bullet travel would have been more perpendicular to GZ's body and he would not require any extension of his arms, but the gun would have been much closer to his face, so recoil could have played a part in the nose injury.

 

[m00c0w]

Wait, so a civilian took the picture of the back of the head, not officers? Hmm.

But the EMT confirmed (under oath) that's what the back of his head looked like. It was a fair and accurate representation of what she saw.

So I'm not sure what difference it makes.

 

[JudyBolton]

Doesn't GZ tell the dispatcher to have police call him when they get there? Seem to remember that from the 911 call.

Yes because he was trying to keep an eye on where TM was heading - so he didn't know where he would be when they got there. I thought someone stated it was "fib" that GZ called 911 or called for the police and I was stating that I thought he was referring to calling them when he first saw TM. And he was presuming they were almost there so no need to call again. imo