George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

[Dr.Fessel]

BBM
How could he assume that there's another report if he never saw the first report? I'm taking his answer for what it is. He never asked for any medical records and never read any medical records. The question remains. Why? JMO.

Why would he ask for the medical records? Zimmerman refused to go to the hospital that night 3 times.

If he had gone to the hospital then those would have been evidence for the State since they had chain of custody of Zimmerman.

George going to the Dr. the next day means nothing to the State since he was out of custody and could have done anything to himself or had someone do something to him or been in a car wreck or anything.

The medical records are fine for the defense and there might be something the State can use in them but George's Dr. report had nothing to do with the State.

 

[Lovelymountains]

I understand your point but disagree.

Do we know that no one in the neighborhood ever followed a stranger before? I don't think we do. So therefore we cannot say "no one else misunderstood."

Frustration at the police arriving too late other times makes GZ's actions quite proper to me. "They always get away through the back gate." And if he had followed TM and police had arrived...the police would not have arrested GZ for "stalking" or "getting out of his car"...would they?

No,. So really that is IMO overblown.

The shooting did not occur, IMO, because of GZ following TM. It occured because GZ was being beaten. A man in pain, nose broken, being pummeled...usually has STOPPING THE BEATING as his priority. The shooting occured to stop the beating.

GZ did have an official capacity in the Neighborhood Watch. This was HIS neighborhood. He has rights too.

Do we now think that we have to hide in our cars or homes and hope police can hurry over fast enough. People in that condo area were under seige. It's sad that those Thugs created the distrust and fear that GZ felt toward a stranger/teenager. But that is NOT racism.

At no time did GZ say, "They always get away through the back gate."

 

[RANCH]

Why would he ask for the medical records? Zimmerman refused to go to the hospital that night 3 times.

If he had gone to the hospital then those would have been evidence for the State since they had chain of custody of Zimmerman.

George going to the Dr. the next day means nothing to the State since he was out of custody and could have done anything to himself or had someone do something to him or been in a car wreck or anything.

The medical records are fine for the defense and there might be something the State can use in them but George's Dr. report had nothing to do with the State.

BBM
Actually Gilbreath should not have had to ask for the medical records. I would hope that they got all the information that Sanford PD had gathered. So why didn't he read these records? Did Sanford PD withhold the records? Or did Gilbreath have access to the records and never knew that. Or did he just not bother to read the reports? Somebody dropped the ball in my opinion.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

BBM
Actually Gilbreath should not have had to ask for the medical records. I would hope that they got all the information that Sanford PD had gathered. So why didn't he read these records? Did Sanford PD withhold the records? Or did Gilbreath have access to the records and never knew that. Or did he just not bother to read the reports? Somebody dropped the ball in my opinion.

Why would he read them? It is the same if Zimmerman's Dr. sent them a report of Zimmerman getting a bunion removed the next day. It was nothing they could use in evidence so why bother?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

The real question is why did Serino put it in his report seeking a warrant.

 

[RANCH]

Why would he read them? It is the same if Zimmerman's Dr. sent them a report of Zimmerman getting a bunion removed the next day. It was nothing they could use in evidence so why bother?

I guess we will have to disagree on this one. I believe that the medical records contain exculpatory evidence. If the state finds exculpatory evidence they won't use it themselves but they can't hide it from the defense either. Not saying that this happened here with these records. JMO.

 

[LambChop]

BBM
Actually Gilbreath should not have had to ask for the medical records. I would hope that they got all the information that Sanford PD had gathered. So why didn't he read these records? Did Sanford PD withhold the records? Or did Gilbreath have access to the records and never knew that. Or did he just not bother to read the reports? Somebody dropped the ball in my opinion.

I think the question was did you know GZ's nose was broken. DG answered that he had heard reports that it was. MOM then asked DG if he had seen the medical report and DG said no. In the initial report GZ was told to see an ENT doctor to confirm his nose was broken. DG had not seen a report that indicated that GZ's nose was broken. So did he answer correctly? Yes, he did. Had MOM showed him the report DG would have pointed out this report only claims his nose was likely broken and not that it was. jmo

QUOTE:

O'MARA: Have you ever had your nose fractured or broken.

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: You know that that was an injury that Mr. Zimmerman sustained, correct?

GILBREATH: I know that that is an injury that is reported to have sustained. I haven't seen any medical records to indicate that.

O'MARA: Have you asked him for them?

GILBREATH: Have I asked him for them? No.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I guess we will have to disagree on this one. I believe that the medical records contain exculpatory evidence. If the state finds exculpatory evidence they won't use it themselves but they can't hide it from the defense either. Not saying that this happened here with these records. JMO.

They did not find the report the defendant sent it to them. He had to give permission to the Dr. for that.


The defense can not insist the State do anything with anything they send them.

If the defense wants to enter evidence in a case they do it through discovery and then enter it at trial. They don't send it to the state to list as evidence.

There was nothing stopping the State from taking that report and throwing it in the garbage. It meant nothing.

 

[LambChop]

I guess we will have to disagree on this one. I believe that the medical records contain exculpatory evidence. If the state finds exculpatory evidence they won't use it themselves but they can't hide it from the defense either. Not saying that this happened here with these records. JMO.

I must be misunderstanding. Didn't MOM already have GZ's medical records??

 

[RANCH]

I think the question was did you know GZ's nose was broken. DG answered that he had heard reports that it was. MOM then asked DG if he had seen the medical report and DG said no. In the initial report GZ was told to see an ENT doctor to confirm his nose was broken. DG had not seen a report that indicated that GZ's nose was broken. So did he answer correctly? Yes, he did. Had MOM showed him the report DG would have pointed out this report only claims his nose was likely broken and not that it was. jmo

QUOTE:

O'MARA: Have you ever had your nose fractured or broken.

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: You know that that was an injury that Mr. Zimmerman sustained, correct?

GILBREATH: I know that that is an injury that is reported to have sustained. I haven't seen any medical records to indicate that.

O'MARA: Have you asked him for them?

GILBREATH: Have I asked him for them? No.

I never said that Gilbreath lied or answered incorrectly about anything. Serino had the records on 3/9. Why did Gilbreath not read it by the time of the bond hearing on 4/20?

I'm not trying to debate the merits of the medical reports, I'm just asking why one of the states lead investigators was not reading ALL reports related to this case? Maybe he was too busy and never got a chance. I don't know the answer myself. In my opinion he should have read that report by the time of the bond hearing.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I never said that Gilbreath lied or answered incorrectly about anything. Serino had the records on 3/9. Why did Gilbreath not read it by the time of the bond hearing on 4/20?

I'm not trying to debate the merits of the medical reports, I'm just asking why one of the states lead investigators was not reading ALL reports related to this case? Maybe he was too busy and never got a chance. I don't know the answer myself. In my opinion he should have read that report by the time of the bond hearing.

BBM Because it was not related to the murder case. It was something George and his Dr. did the day after he killed Trayvon.

imo

 

[RANCH]

Because it was not related to the murder case. It was something George and his Dr. did the day after he killed Trayvon.

Again, I disagree. I believe it will be used by the defense at trial. Of course the prosecution will take an approach such as yours to try and knock it out of the equation. Good luck to them, I feel that their going to need it. JMO.

 

[Isabelle]

At no time did GZ say, "They always get away through the back gate."

Didn't he say, 'those a'holes always get away'!

 

[Sherbie]

If Zimmerman gave a copy of his doctor's report or had his doctor fax/mail it to LE or the SA, it is part of the state's discovery. If the state subpoenaed his records, it is included in discovery.

If the state does not have it by some means by now, I'd be shocked - I imagine that was likely part of the SA's investigation, if LE didn't already have it. And if they have it, it has to be included in discovery. If not, the defense will certainly include it in theirs.

 

[Isabelle]

I must be misunderstanding. Didn't MOM already have GZ's medical records??

Yes, MOM did have the medical records. He stated it in court and waved the papers in the air, for all the world to see!

 

[Dr.Fessel]

If Zimmerman gave a copy of his doctor's report or had his doctor fax/mail it to LE or the SA, it is part of the state's discovery. If the state subpoenaed his records, it is included in discovery.

If the state does not have it by some means by now, I'd be shocked - I imagine that was likely part of the SA's investigation, if LE didn't already have it. And if they have it, it has to be included in discovery. If not, the defense will certainly include it in theirs.

BBM

If George's Dr. sent it to them without a warrant they could throw it in the trash. They don't have to include everything they get sent into discovery.

The defense can not send the SA something and then insist it be included in discovery. Discovery is to learn what you don't know and what the State knows. It would be making a mockery of the court system. imo

 

[i.b.nora]

There is still more Discovery to come. Maybe the SA medical records are included in new stuff. O'Mara has the original medical record. He could release it if he wanted to.

I am not sure why it matters if Gilbreath knew or didn't know what Zimmerman's medical records said at the Bond Hearing. It was a bond hearing not a hearing on George's medical condition a month or two before.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Again, I disagree. I believe it will be used by the defense at trial. Of course the prosecution will take an approach such as yours to try and knock it out of the equation. Good luck to them, I feel that their going to need it. JMO.

The defense might very well use it and I am not trying to knock it out of the equation. I am just knocking it out of the "it must be listed by the State in discovery". That will be the defense's job to release in their discovery.

 

[Sherbie]

BBM

If George's Dr. sent it to them without a warrant they could throw it in the trash. They don't have to include everything they get sent into discovery.

The defense can not send the SA something and then insist it be included in discovery. Discovery is to learn what you don't know and what the State knows. It would be making a mockery of the court system. imo

I disagree, Doc. I think anything they receive has to be documented and included, not just what they want to use at trial. I can't imagine the defense sending something to the state because the defense wants the state to include it in discovery - there's never a need for that since the defense can include it in their own discovery. That's not what I meant - sorry if I gave that impression.

But I think it's possible Zimmerman (before becoming a "defendant") could have consented to a release of his records or even voluntarily provided the report prior to attorney involvement - or that the state subpoenaed it at some point. To me, it would make sense that they'd want to see the documented extent of his injuries if for no other reason than to compare to what they observed at the station to see if there were glaring discrepancies that they could use in their favor.

 

[Sherbie]

The defense might very well use it and I am not trying to knock it out of the equation. I am just knocking it out of the "it must be listed by the State in discovery". That will be the defense's job to release in their discovery.

I think the point is that IF the state is in possession of the document (as in, if they subpoenaed it or GZ gave consent for its release to them), it must be included in their discovery. JMO.