Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 6 murders, July 2023 #15

[CuriousCricket]

NY Post: “Colleen and Sandra both had their shirts pulled up over their faces, and the DA’s [office] has also claimed that there were wood chips on all three bodies … any logical person [would believe] one person was responsible for all three murders.” LI killer John Bittrolff urges DA to take another look at his case after Rex Heuermann charged in ‘eerily similar’ killing

Another source: "Though Bittrolff’s DNA was not found on Costilla, all three victims were displayed in the same sexual manner and missing a single shoe, prosecutors said, and wood shavings were found at all three scenes. Both Tangredi and McNamee were known to engage in sex work, while Costilla 'led a similar lifestyle,' Spota said." https://drgnews.com/2024/06/08/long...after-architect-is-charged-in-3-of-11-deaths/

I'm pretty sure the wood shavings are part of the reason they were so convinced this murder was also Bittrolff.

And have been looking into the "HK" for Heuermann's doc title. While agreed this could be Hunt/Kill, Hit/Kill, and so on, just noting I see a few sources saying "HK" is hotel/hospitality lingo for "housekeeping," like the housekeeping department in the hotel/facility that does clean up and maintenance.

I've changed my mind about questioning BIttrolff's convictions. District Attorney Ray Tierney seems too smart and savvy to pass up a chance to further a political career by "righting a 20-year wrong" if that were a possibility.

If Tierney has aspirations beyond his current position, he has to know how well freeing someone wrongly imprisoned would play in any campaign. It would make him appear to be more interested in justice than the win/loss tally. This is the highest profile case of his career, that's why he's trying it himself - IMO. So, would it not be "icing on the cake" to right a great injustice of 20 years --- if that were a possibility?

I've been outspoken in my desire for DA Tierney to be very specific as in: "We've closely examined all the evidence in the Bittrolff convictions and there is nothing NOTHING to suggest RH is involved, not a dab of DNA nor a single hair belonging to him or any known associate." That's what I'd like to see to be positive of the convictions. However, since Tierney hasn't worked to overturn an injustice, I suspect they're good convictions.

Changing the subject to the rest of your post:

According to the Wikipedia article on Dennis Rader, he suggested BTK (among "many others") as a name for himself in 1978 in a letter to television station KAKE, in Wichita, claiming responsibility for the murders of the Oteros, Bright, Vian Relford, and Fox.

IF RH were following serial killers, isn't it likely he would be familiar with the "BTK" name by 2000 when he was writing the HK document? While it could easily be for HouseKeeping, as suggested, I think Hunt Kill or another shortened form of his MO is also possible. Unfortunately, we'll never know unless he starts talking.

 

[snarast]

I've changed my mind about questioning BIttrolff's convictions. District Attorney Ray Tierney seems too smart and savvy to pass up a chance to further a political career by "righting a 20-year wrong" if that were a possibility.

If Tierney has aspirations beyond his current position, he has to know how well freeing someone wrongly imprisoned would play in any campaign. It would make him appear to be more interested in justice than the win/loss tally. This is the highest profile case of his career, that's why he's trying it himself - IMO. So, would it not be "icing on the cake" to right a great injustice of 20 years --- if that were a possibility?

I've been outspoken in my desire for DA Tierney to be very specific as in: "We've closely examined all the evidence in the Bittrolff convictions and there is nothing NOTHING to suggest RH is involved, not a dab of DNA nor a single hair belonging to him or any known associate." That's what I'd like to see to be positive of the convictions. However, since Tierney hasn't worked to overturn an injustice, I suspect they're good convictions.

Changing the subject to the rest of your post:

According to the Wikipedia article on Dennis Rader, he suggested BTK (among "many others") as a name for himself in 1978 in a letter to television station KAKE, in Wichita, claiming responsibility for the murders of the Oteros, Bright, Vian Relford, and Fox.

IF RH were following serial killers, isn't it likely he would be familiar with the "BTK" name by 2000 when he was writing the HK document? While it could easily be for HouseKeeping, as suggested, I think Hunt Kill or another shortened form of his MO is also possible. Unfortunately, we'll never know unless he starts talking.

Good points. One thing we do know is that BTK outed himself using the moniker Rex.

Maybe BTK outed himself to people of his ilk online, provided them with README-files? Perhaps not understanding at all how vulnerable he was.

Which is incredible to me, given all his secrets. But it is in line with his personality. Hubris.

Ref: https://www.kansas.com/news/special-reports/btk/article1003738.html

 

[CuriousCricket]

Good points. One thing we do know is that BTK outed himself using the moniker Rex.

Maybe BTK outed himself to people of his ilk online, provided them with README-files? Perhaps not understanding at all how vulnerable he was.

Which is incredible to me, given all his secrets. But it is in line with his personality. Hubris.

Ref: https://www.kansas.com/news/special-reports/btk/article1003738.html

Thanks, I didn't know the REX connection that tied to BTK.

Do you remember when RH was arrested, Rader all dressed up, proud as a peacock being interviewed? He called RH his "clone".

Serial killer Dennis Rader calls Gilgo Beach suspect Rex Heuermann 'a clone of me'

BTK serial killer Dennis Rader claims he predicted Gilgo Beach suspect would be "a clone" of himself and says the two fathers of two have many similarities.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Betty P]

Thanks, I didn't know the REX connection that tied to BTK.

Do you remember when RH was arrested, Rader all dressed up, proud as a peacock being interviewed? He called RH his "clone".

Serial killer Dennis Rader calls Gilgo Beach suspect Rex Heuermann 'a clone of me'

BTK serial killer Dennis Rader claims he predicted Gilgo Beach suspect would be "a clone" of himself and says the two fathers of two have many similarities.

www.foxnews.com

Didn't surprise me that Rader did that, he has such a huge ego. Local LE eventually figured that out and used it against Rader. They had a plan where they gave interviews in local news media stating that they were looking at other suspects for the murders, that they didn't think BTK really committed them. They knew it would upset him and make him start giving them more information, taking more credit. It worked.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Didn't surprise me that Rader did that, he has such a huge ego. Local LE eventually figured that out and used it against Rader. They had a plan where they gave interviews in local news media stating that they were looking at other suspects for the murders, that they didn't think BTK really committed them. They knew it would upset him and make him start giving them more information, taking more credit. It worked.

Indeed. Rader wanted credit for his work.

Just this morning it was tumbling around in my head, wondering if Rex would talk if some of his work was given to someone else. At that time this morning, I wasn't even thinking about Rader. However, if RH did follow killers and then use their methods as a way for someone else to take the blame, then he might puff up more internally and stay quiet as his method had succeeded. To me, RH seems to be such a game player. I wonder if I'm reading him right.

 

[Megnut]

Indeed. Rader wanted credit for his work.

Just this morning it was tumbling around in my head, wondering if Rex would talk if some of his work was given to someone else. At that time this morning, I wasn't even thinking about Rader. However, if RH did follow killers and then use their methods as a way for someone else to take the blame, then he might puff up more internally and stay quiet as his method had succeeded. To me, RH seems to be such a game player. I wonder if I'm reading him right.

I think ultimately he wants credit.

I think intermediately he takes great pride in his misleading countermeasures, by which I mean disparate and copycat murders, all things that he engineered in order to continue murdering.

JMO

 

[minazoe]

Dennis Rader is probably the most disturbing of all of them. he is sickening and the photo catalogue he left behind is the sickest most disgusting thing I can never un-see. What Dennis did was unspeakable. I have read all the big ones too..all of them..Israel Keyes is another and Bundy...with an honorable mention to Susan Powell's husband. The thing that sets these apart for me is the element of torture and extreme sadomasochism..

we are going to find out Rex has murdered many many more. sex workers, people on the fringes, random people who simply disappeared. I really hope he is in trouble in SC. It's my hope he will suffer the anxiety of a death penalty trial.

fingers crossed! mOO

 

[CuriousCricket]

I think ultimately he wants credit.

I think intermediately he takes great pride in his misleading countermeasures, by which I mean disparate and copycat murders, all things that he engineered in order to continue murdering.

JMO

I suspect time will prove you right. Once he's gotten away with fooling LE, once he believes the investigation is over and he's received a few lifetime sentences but not for ALL his murders, then pride will demand that he lets everyone know how smart he is and how successful his maneuverings were.

Yes, hide back and watch until he knows which ones he fooled investigators on. Then, serving a lifetime and with nothing to lose, it'll be time for him to take credit. I can see that.

For the moment, though, I suspect he may be enjoying thinking about all the work he's causing, all the scurrying, all the publicity and notoriety -- everything focused on HIM. I can imagine RH enjoying that.

 

[Passeridae]

NY Post: “Colleen and Sandra both had their shirts pulled up over their faces, and the DA’s [office] has also claimed that there were wood chips on all three bodies … any logical person [would believe] one person was responsible for all three murders.” LI killer John Bittrolff urges DA to take another look at his case after Rex Heuermann charged in ‘eerily similar’ killing

Another source: "Though Bittrolff’s DNA was not found on Costilla, all three victims were displayed in the same sexual manner and missing a single shoe, prosecutors said, and wood shavings were found at all three scenes. Both Tangredi and McNamee were known to engage in sex work, while Costilla 'led a similar lifestyle,' Spota said." https://drgnews.com/2024/06/08/long...after-architect-is-charged-in-3-of-11-deaths/

I'm pretty sure the wood shavings are part of the reason they were so convinced this murder was also Bittrolff.

And have been looking into the "HK" for Heuermann's doc title. While agreed this could be Hunt/Kill, Hit/Kill, and so on, just noting I see a few sources saying "HK" is hotel/hospitality lingo for "housekeeping," like the housekeeping department in the hotel/facility that does clean up and maintenance.

That's what I mean, though. There were some anonymous quotes in questionable papers (sorry, the NY Post is basically a tabloid - they often have the basics of a story down but tend to be less careful with details and more focused on sensationalism), but in the very thorough description of Sandra's crime scene in the new bail application there is zero mention of wood particles.

And a lot of the same newspapers ranged from "wood shavings" found with the bodies to saying they were covered in wood chips, but when Bittrolff went to trial it was revealed that microscopic wood particles were with Colleen and Rita, not shavings or chips.

I am skeptical that any wood particles were found with Sandra until the current DA confirms it at this point.

ETA: I also found it interesting that news stories until now have repeatedly and consistently said that Rita and Colleen were found nude with their clothing nearby, but suddenly now they were partially clothed with shirts over their faces? There has been some seriously sloppy reporting here, and I don't know if it is now or if the sloppiness was before Tierney got the job, but it's really muddied the waters.

 

[snooptroop88]

That's what I mean, though. There were some anonymous quotes in questionable papers (sorry, the NY Post is basically a tabloid - they often have the basics of a story down but tend to be less careful with details and more focused on sensationalism), but in the very thorough description of Sandra's crime scene in the new bail application there is zero mention of wood particles.

And a lot of the same newspapers ranged from "wood shavings" found with the bodies to saying they were covered in wood chips, but when Bittrolff went to trial it was revealed that microscopic wood particles were with Colleen and Rita, not shavings or chips.

I am skeptical that any wood particles were found with Sandra until the current DA confirms it at this point.

ETA: I also found it interesting that news stories until now have repeatedly and consistently said that Rita and Colleen were found nude with their clothing nearby, but suddenly now they were partially clothed with shirts over their faces? There has been some seriously sloppy reporting here, and I don't know if it is now or if the sloppiness was before Tierney got the job, but it's really muddied the waters.

I don't remember which source (a YouTuber) where I heard this same thing about microscopic, they weren't visible to the naked eye, or were hardly visible, and it was like the victims were bathed in them. And 100% agreed, one story they're shavings, then they're chips, then they're particles, etc. I agree on the particles based on everything I saw some time ago when I looked through multiple sources. The best sources I could find were saying particles.

Totally understood on the skepticism. There's not a lot about Sandra out there generally, and it's frustrating. And agreed on the sloppy reporting, too. Have found it incredibly difficult to find anything substantive about the Bittrolff trial generally. But if the particles were present on Sandra-- and 'm relying on the sources provided, and agreed, caution is a good thing-- if they were present on Sandra, that's a very big deal in terms of what the evidence might be suggesting, MOO.

 

[snooptroop88]

That's what I mean, though. There were some anonymous quotes in questionable papers (sorry, the NY Post is basically a tabloid - they often have the basics of a story down but tend to be less careful with details and more focused on sensationalism), but in the very thorough description of Sandra's crime scene in the new bail application there is zero mention of wood particles.

And a lot of the same newspapers ranged from "wood shavings" found with the bodies to saying they were covered in wood chips, but when Bittrolff went to trial it was revealed that microscopic wood particles were with Colleen and Rita, not shavings or chips.

I am skeptical that any wood particles were found with Sandra until the current DA confirms it at this point.

ETA: I also found it interesting that news stories until now have repeatedly and consistently said that Rita and Colleen were found nude with their clothing nearby, but suddenly now they were partially clothed with shirts over their faces? There has been some seriously sloppy reporting here, and I don't know if it is now or if the sloppiness was before Tierney got the job, but it's really muddied the waters.

Oh, just found it in an AP story as well. One second, pasting: Though Bittrolff’s DNA was not found on Costilla, all three victims were displayed in the same sexual manner and missing a single shoe, prosecutors said, and wood shavings were found at all three scenes. Both Tangredi and McNamee were known to engage in sex work, while Costilla “led a similar lifestyle,” Spota said.

New charges for alleged Gilgo Beach serial killer cast scrutiny on another man's murder conviction

New charges brought against the man accused of a string of killings on New York's Long Island are raising questions about another man’s murder conviction.

apnews.com

Associated Press is a very good source. I know it's got the "shavings," but they're clearly using the terms (chips/particles/shavings) interchangeably, which is probably technically okay. But I doubt AP would get the info wrong about all three victims having this general commonality with the wood because that's not what anyone would consider a detail in this context.

 

[Betty P]

That's what I mean, though. There were some anonymous quotes in questionable papers (sorry, the NY Post is basically a tabloid - they often have the basics of a story down but tend to be less careful with details and more focused on sensationalism), but in the very thorough description of Sandra's crime scene in the new bail application there is zero mention of wood particles.

And a lot of the same newspapers ranged from "wood shavings" found with the bodies to saying they were covered in wood chips, but when Bittrolff went to trial it was revealed that microscopic wood particles were with Colleen and Rita, not shavings or chips.

I am skeptical that any wood particles were found with Sandra until the current DA confirms it at this point.

ETA: I also found it interesting that news stories until now have repeatedly and consistently said that Rita and Colleen were found nude with their clothing nearby, but suddenly now they were partially clothed with shirts over their faces? There has been some seriously sloppy reporting here, and I don't know if it is now or if the sloppiness was before Tierney got the job, but it's really muddied the waters.

Thanks for pointing this out. I had the same question a while back when I could swear there was nothing placed on the faces of these women. Suddenly its reported there were. Was this just information LE had withheld from the public, but changed their mind? IDK. I need to start a spreadsheet / database to keep track of them.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Oh, just found it in an AP story as well. One second, pasting: Though Bittrolff’s DNA was not found on Costilla, all three victims were displayed in the same sexual manner and missing a single shoe, prosecutors said, and wood shavings were found at all three scenes. Both Tangredi and McNamee were known to engage in sex work, while Costilla “led a similar lifestyle,” Spota said.

New charges for alleged Gilgo Beach serial killer cast scrutiny on another man's murder conviction

New charges brought against the man accused of a string of killings on New York's Long Island are raising questions about another man’s murder conviction.

apnews.com

Associated Press is a very good source. I know it's got the "shavings," but they're clearly using the terms (chips/particles/shavings) interchangeably, which is probably technically okay. But I doubt AP would get the info wrong about all three victims having this general commonality with the wood because that's not what anyone would consider a detail in this context.

The thing with The Associated Press is that often the stories are picked up, and sometimes edited or shortened, from the newspapers that belong to the AP, then sent on to subscribing newspapers.

In the rural area where I live, there were some stories AP sent their own reporters into the local newspaper office and they covered events, wrote stories and filed them from the local newspaper office. However, generally, the AP stories from our local area were actually written by local reporters and just picked up by AP. It's been years since I've worked at the local newspaper, so I wonder if now, with the Internet and remote writing so easy, if the AP reporters actually go into the local papers. In the past, AP executives and reporters did maintain contact with the local newspapers. I would expect they still do to some extent.

But having the AP story originating at a local newspaper would explain the matching wording.

 

[dotr]

June 8 '24 rbbm

New charges for alleged Gilgo Beach serial killer cast scrutiny on another man's murder conviction

www.ctvnews.ca

''As with the Gilgo Beach investigation, the case against Bittrolff was dogged by allegations of mistakes and misconduct by police and prosecutors. During the trial, the Suffolk County police admitted to accidentally destroying the wood chips found on one of the women’s bodies and, separately, wood chips discovered in a car used by a police sergeant who was a potential suspect.''

 

[snooptroop88]

Am still pursuing the theory that RH may have used abandoned structures in the commission of his crimes. I know this sounds far-fetched. But who thinks RH only started murdering people in 1993 at the age of 30? I don't, and I know a lot of other people don't. Did RH only start murdering people once he became a homeowner? There's no way I believe that. That means he was already committing murders (theoretically) "elsewhere," not in his home because he didn't always own that home. And his mother had been in that home pretty much up until he purchased it. If he got into the habit of using other locations earlier on (and I'm sure he did), he may have continued to use those locations in some capacity in terms of the Gilgo victims. So here are some locations I'm kind of looking into right now:
-Old Fish Cove Inn by Sandra Costilla, which cabins and had a compost heap; they filmed a movie here (slasher movie called "Madman" in 1982) with shoestring budget and had a casting call on "Backstage." RH was active in the drama club doing props and such, maybe he participated
-Pilgrim's State in Brentwood 7 mins from where they found Tina Foglia and 13 mins from Babylon/Amber, and like 13 mins from Hauppauge/Meghan Waterman
-Creedmoor in Queens, close to Flushing (Asian Doe?) and 13 min drive to Hempstead Lake State Park/Peaches & baby
-King's Park Psychiatric in Smithtown, which is incredibly close to where Nikkie Brass went to meet RH. He met her at the Steamroom Restaurant out in Rocky Point, which itself is filled with ruins of structures. Just as a note, to get from the Steamroom to Smithtown, you'd take 25A, which I've seen described as eerie, pretty desolate, and dark.

Have never been personally to any of these structures, and it's difficult to assess what the specific conditions would have been like in various timeframes, especially in terms of access. But they've all been abandoned for quite some time, and are all fairly large. And these abandoned structures come with their own interesting factors, like smells. I've always been curious about that note in HK about "M/O" and the plastic bag and cat litter. Was it to hide a distinctive smell? Because (example) Creedmoor is filled with pigeon droppings, mounds of them, and they have a pretty distinct odor. Also, his note about push pins instead of tape, yet he has another note about bringing bags and tape, and we know he ended up getting caught by tape, in part. So was that note about the push pins really in reference to the tape with hairs? Or might it have been something else? If he were using an abandoned structure, the tape might not adhere to thick dust. Agreed this theory is definitely out there in terms of what I've seen about RH (so far), but he had to have been killing somewhere early on, he didn't have a house and he wouldn't have the same privacy in an apartment. With some of these structures, he might arguably have had more privacy there than in his own home.

 

[dotr]

Am still pursuing the theory that RH may have used abandoned structures in the commission of his crimes. I know this sounds far-fetched. But who thinks RH only started murdering people in 1993 at the age of 30? I don't, and I know a lot of other people don't. Did RH only start murdering people once he became a homeowner? There's no way I believe that. That means he was already committing murders (theoretically) "elsewhere," not in his home because he didn't always own that home. And his mother had been in that home pretty much up until he purchased it. If he got into the habit of using other locations earlier on (and I'm sure he did), he may have continued to use those locations in some capacity in terms of the Gilgo victims. So here are some locations I'm kind of looking into right now:
-Old Fish Cove Inn by Sandra Costilla, which cabins and had a compost heap; they filmed a movie here (slasher movie called "Madman" in 1982) with shoestring budget and had a casting call on "Backstage." RH was active in the drama club doing props and such, maybe he participated
-Pilgrim's State in Brentwood 7 mins from where they found Tina Foglia and 13 mins from Babylon/Amber, and like 13 mins from Hauppauge/Meghan Waterman
-Creedmoor in Queens, close to Flushing (Asian Doe?) and 13 min drive to Hempstead Lake State Park/Peaches & baby
-King's Park Psychiatric in Smithtown, which is incredibly close to where Nikkie Brass went to meet RH. He met her at the Steamroom Restaurant out in Rocky Point, which itself is filled with ruins of structures. Just as a note, to get from the Steamroom to Smithtown, you'd take 25A, which I've seen described as eerie, pretty desolate, and dark.

Have never been personally to any of these structures, and it's difficult to assess what the specific conditions would have been like in various timeframes, especially in terms of access. But they've all been abandoned for quite some time, and are all fairly large. And these abandoned structures come with their own interesting factors, like smells. I've always been curious about that note in HK about "M/O" and the plastic bag and cat litter. Was it to hide a distinctive smell? Because (example) Creedmoor is filled with pigeon droppings, mounds of them, and they have a pretty distinct odor. Also, his note about push pins instead of tape, yet he has another note about bringing bags and tape, and we know he ended up getting caught by tape, in part. So was that note about the push pins really in reference to the tape with hairs? Or might it have been something else? If he were using an abandoned structure, the tape might not adhere to thick dust. Agreed this theory is definitely out there in terms of what I've seen about RH (so far), but he had to have been killing somewhere early on, he didn't have a house and he wouldn't have the same privacy in an apartment. With some of these structures, he might arguably have had more privacy there than in his own home.

It would not surprise me if RH used any one of the places you suggested, maybe even include old garages with bathrooms.
Considering how he nearly hurt the girl working backstage at a school production, could his ultimate fantasy be to do what he allegedly does, in a theater setting?
Are there many abandoned theaters around RH's stomping grounds? speculation, imo.

 

[Megnut]

Am still pursuing the theory that RH may have used abandoned structures in the commission of his crimes. I know this sounds far-fetched. But who thinks RH only started murdering people in 1993 at the age of 30? I don't, and I know a lot of other people don't. Did RH only start murdering people once he became a homeowner? There's no way I believe that. That means he was already committing murders (theoretically) "elsewhere," not in his home because he didn't always own that home. And his mother had been in that home pretty much up until he purchased it. If he got into the habit of using other locations earlier on (and I'm sure he did), he may have continued to use those locations in some capacity in terms of the Gilgo victims. So here are some locations I'm kind of looking into right now:
-Old Fish Cove Inn by Sandra Costilla, which cabins and had a compost heap; they filmed a movie here (slasher movie called "Madman" in 1982) with shoestring budget and had a casting call on "Backstage." RH was active in the drama club doing props and such, maybe he participated
-Pilgrim's State in Brentwood 7 mins from where they found Tina Foglia and 13 mins from Babylon/Amber, and like 13 mins from Hauppauge/Meghan Waterman
-Creedmoor in Queens, close to Flushing (Asian Doe?) and 13 min drive to Hempstead Lake State Park/Peaches & baby
-King's Park Psychiatric in Smithtown, which is incredibly close to where Nikkie Brass went to meet RH. He met her at the Steamroom Restaurant out in Rocky Point, which itself is filled with ruins of structures. Just as a note, to get from the Steamroom to Smithtown, you'd take 25A, which I've seen described as eerie, pretty desolate, and dark.

Have never been personally to any of these structures, and it's difficult to assess what the specific conditions would have been like in various timeframes, especially in terms of access. But they've all been abandoned for quite some time, and are all fairly large. And these abandoned structures come with their own interesting factors, like smells. I've always been curious about that note in HK about "M/O" and the plastic bag and cat litter. Was it to hide a distinctive smell? Because (example) Creedmoor is filled with pigeon droppings, mounds of them, and they have a pretty distinct odor. Also, his note about push pins instead of tape, yet he has another note about bringing bags and tape, and we know he ended up getting caught by tape, in part. So was that note about the push pins really in reference to the tape with hairs? Or might it have been something else? If he were using an abandoned structure, the tape might not adhere to thick dust. Agreed this theory is definitely out there in terms of what I've seen about RH (so far), but he had to have been killing somewhere early on, he didn't have a house and he wouldn't have the same privacy in an apartment. With some of these structures, he might arguably have had more privacy there than in his own home.

And allow him to continue to collect, hold, torture and kill victims at these satellite location even while his family wasn't traveling. All under a pretense of long work days. Whether or not he availed himself of them for his demented purposes, I agree, it shouldn't be overlooked that he certainly had knowledge of and access to a variety of abandoned buildings, especially in his early days when, as you say, he needed more privacy than his own home would offer.

Jmo