GUILTY on all 3 Counts!!! Post-Verdict Thread

[snoofer]

Just a guess but i would think just trying to stay sane LOL TV, books and wrtiting materials are allowed. The small confinement must be harrowing. Described as being in a closet with a light bulb over your head. I like it!!!!!

yes and in the j unit it is plexiglass and camera monitored 27-7...zero privacy. :moo:

 

[snoofer]

how does one survive without speaking to anyone? Can they have conversations with others around them (quality people you know)? I imagine not many people will be visiting him. Moo.

"wilson!!!"

 

[snoofer]

OH, that was very telling! Without saying it in so many words I think he made it pretty clear that he didn't actually believe a word of that story about MR as the dupe. Interesting!

Tink

and there is a tip for jurors, the only evidence was the one witness and all they could consider.

Does Derstine remind anyone else of Harry Potter?:moo:

 

[Kittymama]

I wish I could, but I live in Alberta. Too far away. For my part, I will be lighting a purple, lilac-scented candle for Tori next Saturday.

All along, I got the impression that Derstine didn't like Rafferty much. I think he did the best he could with what he had, but there were definitely things that made me wonder what the heck he was thinking. The way his closing argument was all over the place, and the way he made sure the Crown would go last by calling one unreliable witness, makes me think he did it on purpose. Good for him, if that's the case. NOBODY in their right mind wants that monster walking the streets.

I like that article by Rosie Dimanno. I agree, too--I think Judge Heeney erred too far on the side of caution. Common sense dictates that the jury should have known at least some of the most pertinent evidence, and he could have allowed it. I'm glad the jury was able to reach the right verdict anyway, but I really do think it's no thanks to him. MOO

 

[crazyladi]

did anyone else notice on MTR's interrogation video he seemed to display two different personalities...one with the first detective in which he behaved very childlike in his speech, curled up with the blanket, whiney. THEN with Det Smyth who was tougher with him he seemed to switch to a darker more malevolent personality. Not saying he is multiple personalities or anything but did notice when he was darker, he sat up straighter, was more snippy and cocky, and more focused. His facial expressions were darker and his eyes more piercing. MOO

Totally. This first guy talked way too much, repetitive but when he came in he was right to the point and it agitated mr a lot

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/loca...dstock_News_Conference/20120512/?hub=CP24Home

I hope this link takes you to the Mayor of Woodstock and how he explains the long healing route ahead of his town...It also has another 2 audio from the Head of the Woodstock Police commission...and he thanked all the people who helped get the comviction and talks a bout the early days of the aduction of Poor Tori .Unfortunately they all felt they would find Tori alive during the first month of the investiagation... I found this report kind of soothing as we have all felt such great stress for so long....I hope this works as it is my 3rd attempt at posting it....I too had difficulties on this web site this morning seems fine now ...hugs to all my friends I have met here again...robynhood...xxxoo ..Happy Mother's day I just got and an awesome flower wrapped in Lindt chocolate from my sons and a sweet card..I bought some beautiful purpple perenials to plant in my garden...Smile purple has always been my fav. colour but even more so now!..the flowers will bloom each year to remind of our beautiful angel Tori....we shall NEVER forget you tori ..you have touched so many hearts ...have a nice day fellow sleuthers ...again tweeting rockin robyn...thanks to Silly billy ...or was it swede who sent me that cute youtube video here ????...my brain still feels numb..hmmm...

I see you live near me maybe we will see each other there it would be good to see all the loving people that I have met on here over the years.

I heard that Russel Williams wife regularly visits him. (ex-wife?) Or at least she did.

Sounds like at Kingston it is not a very pleasant place as per that article where the reporter went to visit the j wing and the inmates were tossing urine and such at the plexiglass and screaming. I am guessing that many have severe mental health problems and have gone down hill since incarceration.:moo:

OH, that was very telling! Without saying it in so many words I think he made it pretty clear that he didn't actually believe a word of that story about MR as the dupe. Interesting!

Tink

I just can't see how someone could do that I would be repulsed

Well, it's a condition for getting parole to show remorse, apologize and promise to rehabilitate, even if the prisoner is actually not guilty. THat would be tough for someone wrongly convicted, but necessary to get parole. In Raffery's case, there's no way he would get parole if he didn't show remorse, so he would have to fake it to get the parole board's sympathy. After 25 years, if he wanted out bad enough, he might just finally tell the truth and ask forgiveness. But in my mind, what he did can never be forgiven.

I just hope when that time comes the parole board isn't duped

 

[Kittymama]

Does Derstine remind anyone else of Harry Potter?:moo:

Hahahahhahahahaha! Yes, now that you mention it! LOL! :floorlaugh:

 

[Hello_Kitty]

and there is a tip for jurors, the only evidence was the one witness and all they could consider.

Does Derstine remind anyone else of Harry Potter?:moo:

Yeeeahhh, sort of like an adult version of Harry Potter... Just watched Deathly Hollows 2 <modsnip>.

 

[Sillybilly]

"wilson!!!"

Oh snoofer, you cracked me up with that one.

Years ago I was driving through northern Ontario enroute to BC. My vehicle broke down near a little town called Upsula. My car was towed and me and the dog spent the nite in a tiny motel in the middle of nowhere where i got 2 tv channels (snowy ones at that). The movie Castaway was on one of the fuzzy stations, so I watched it. As i sat on the bed with my dog, feeling very out of sorts ... my house was sold, my wordly goods were in storage, my life seemed strangely devoid of all things familiar, when I finally thought out loud "Hell this isn't so bad ... I could be talking to a volleyball named Wilson".

Maybe they'll give the small man a golf ball he can name Willy.

 

[Sillybilly]

I wish I could, but I live in Alberta. Too far away. For my part, I will be lighting a purple, lilac-scented candle for Tori next Saturday.

All along, I got the impression that Derstine didn't like Rafferty much. I think he did the best he could with what he had, but there were definitely things that made me wonder what the heck he was thinking. The way his closing argument was all over the place, and the way he made sure the Crown would go last by calling one unreliable witness, makes me think he did it on purpose. Good for him, if that's the case. NOBODY in their right mind wants that monster walking the streets.

I like that article by Rosie Dimanno. I agree, too--I think Judge Heeney erred too far on the side of caution. Common sense dictates that the jury should have known at least some of the most pertinent evidence, and he could have allowed it. I'm glad the jury was able to reach the right verdict anyway, but I really do think it's no thanks to him. MOO

Derstine knew from the beginning what the evidence was that was disallowed. Although he had to represent his client, including fighting to get that evidence tossed, I don't think he liked his client much.

I'd wager even the defence team got into the bubbly the other nite

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I just needed to say this for the benefit of any LE, any court people that may be watching this thread. Good job!!! Det. Smyth is my hero!

I even like Derstine, I'd want him to be my defence lawyer if.... won't say it it's bad luck. Derstine believed even a scum ball like MR should have a good defence and I can see why he said that. It's his job to defend, someone has to take the tough jobs.

I really learned alot about law during this trial. Unfortunately, it was at the expense of an innocent little girl who didn't deserve what happened to her. She should be getting ready for her birthday right about now, which is the same month as me and just a few days after mine.

I'm not much of a traveller anymore, but if ever I am close to Woodstock, I will definitely stop by Tori's grave to lay some flowers.

Be at peace Tori.


ps Thank you WS for this site. It's cathartic KWIM.

 

[Jezbel]

I am I think. if anyone wants to meet up let me know

I was thinking of going as I'm off that day

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Oh snoofer, you cracked me up with that one.

Years ago I was driving through northern Ontario enroute to BC. My vehicle broke down near a little town called Upsula. My car was towed and me and the dog spent the nite in a tiny motel in the middle of nowhere where i got 2 tv channels (snowy ones at that). The movie Castaway was on one of the fuzzy stations, so I watched it. As i sat on the bed with my dog, feeling very out of sorts ... my house was sold, my wordly goods were in storage, my life seemed strangely devoid of all things familiar, when I finally thought out loud "Hell this isn't so bad ... I could be talking to a volleyball named Wilson".

Maybe they'll give the small man a golf ball he can name Willy.

I had a similar experience SB. Was on my way home from London, ON to Ottawa, I think it was in 2001 - Got caught in a blizzard and decided to stop in Cobourg outside of Toronto (cuz I hate driving in snow). I had my dog T-Bone with me. Was stuck there for 3 days!! No proper tv, no coffee was the worst!!! I had no Wilson either!! I think that would have made things more interesting.

 

[JayFriend]

There's a good interview of Randy Richmond, the LFP reporter covering the trial, here on Sun News Network:

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2012/05/20120513-085004.html

The only thing I don't agree with is the notion that Woodstock has a drug problem, as if any other town or city doesn't. It's a universal problem and unless it's highlighted by a tragedy such as this, most people aren't even aware of it. In this case all the bad things came together in one place at the same time.

 

[Snoopster]

Do think tho that he will be able to do that? Psycopaths do not care about anyone but themselves, they have no compassion, they do not feel remorse, they're missing something in their brain chemistry that makes them unable to feel those things. They feel they are justified in what they do and that it is everyone else but themselves that are wrong. I don't think he will ever come to terms with what he he did. Granted, he hasn't been diagnosed by a qualified psychiatrist yet, but I believe Det. Smyth when he said that he'd met a psychopath in MR.

And I doubt they would ever let a psychopath like MR out on parole! I don't think you can fix psychopath sadistic pedophile KILLERS! JMO

In total agreement, HK. Det. Smyth called it exactly right. He said that psychopaths never confess. (at ~ 20:45 in the linked video below: "do you know what a psychopath is Mike?")

Now that I've had a chance to watch MTR's interrogation video, the following parts of the video stood out to me:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743241.html


Starting just before 3 minutes into the video...MTR wretching, at the thought of losing control of his "life". (I had to put "life" in quotes. Pschopaths cannot deal with losing control or their lives.)


Q: What is your biggest concern right now? A: Losing my life. Q: What does that mean? A: It means not being able to do the things I do every day.
My comment: What the heck did he do every day? Drugs and sex (and working on the logistics around those two goals). That pretty much says it all. It is clear that MTR was terrified of losing the ability to do those things.



MTR comment (~4:37): What happens to all of my friends, the people that I know, the people in my life? My comment: When he mentioned his friends, I thought 'what friends?'. In his earlier police interview he pretty much told LE that he was new to town and didn't really have any close friends. He is a psychopath and is really incapable of developing true friendships. IMO


~ 21:45 Smyth: [regarding TLM] Everyone is talking about some guy must have made her do it. MTR: I don't know what some guy she is involved with ... She's not involved with me. I'm one of a dozen of people she knows. Smyth: When was the last time you saw TL? long pause [gotcha!] MTR: I dropped her off some clothes. Smyth: Why, if she knows dozens of people, are you the one that has to drop off clothes?


MTR kept saying that all that LE was relying on was the confession of a 19 year old druggie. Why did they charge him solely based on that? Det. Smyth indicated at that point, most innocent people would say, 'hey, you got the wrong guy. I was at such and such a place, at the time, and the following people will confirm that.' So where were the people lining up to confirm that he was with them at the time. Basically, Det. Smyth called his bluff. It was great to watch MTR squirm. LE clearly had no doubt about his guilt by that time. (alibi discussion starts at around 37:00)



~44:50 Smyth: So, if you ask me why I am sitting in this room, I am sitting in this room for Tori. Making you squirm. Putting you through some of the grief that you put her through. That's why I'm in here Mike, and I'm having a good time.


~46:00 Smyth: You are a sick puppy, Michael. This is a good day for us. You should have done it yourself. Wouldn't that be a different story. If you had the balls to do this for yourself. You had to send a 19 year old to kidnap an 8 year old for you. That's what happened to Bernardo too. squirm


I loved that MTR couldn't stop speaking up after he said he was done talking. Det. Smyth would lure him in again...MTR just couldn't help responding. Having said that, MTR is a tough cookie when it comes to defending "MTR". It's clearly all about him and no one else. Scary. No empathy. All JMO.

 

[flipflop]

How does one survive without speaking to anyone? Can they have conversations with others around them (quality people you know)? I imagine not many people will be visiting him. MOO.

Im not sure how close he is to his family members, but if I was one of them I would go to see him, not sure how often, but I would want an explaination as to WTH went on and to remind him how his actions damagaed not just his family but soooooo many others. His family members are innocent people, they have to heal from this as well, Im sure one visit to him would help with this. Their healing is much different from RS and TM's, MR's family can still visit him...in jail, RS and TM have to visit a graveside

If I were in the shoes of one of his ex gf's....part of me would never want to see his face again, but yet I think part of me would want just one visit to see his sorry life in jail and to tell him what I really think of him. MOO

Im sure Smyth would love to go and see him again....just to say...I told ya so!!!!

 

[BorgQueen]

In total agreement, HK. Det. Smyth called it exactly right. He said that psychopaths never confess. (at ~ 20:45 in the linked video below: "do you know what a psychopath is Mike?")

Now that I've had a chance to watch MTR's interrogation video, the following parts of the video stood out to me:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743241.html


Starting just before 3 minutes into the video...MTR wretching, at the thought of losing control of his "life". (I had to put "life" in quotes. Pschopaths cannot deal with losing control or their lives.)


Q: What is your biggest concern right now? A: Losing my life. Q: What does that mean? A: It means not being able to do the things I do every day.
My comment: What the heck did he do every day? Drugs and sex (and working on the logistics around those two goals). That pretty much says it all. It is clear that MTR was terrified of losing the ability to do those things.



MTR comment (~4:37): What happens to all of my friends, the people that I know, the people in my life? My comment: When he mentioned his friends, I thought 'what friends?'. In his earlier police interview he pretty much told LE that he was new to town and didn't really have any close friends. He is a psychopath and is really incapable of developing true friendships. IMO


~ 21:45 Smyth: [regarding TLM] Everyone is talking about some guy must have made her do it. MTR: I don't know what some guy she is involved with ... She's not involved with me. I'm one of a dozen of people she knows. Smyth: When was the last time you saw TL? long pause [gotcha!] MTR: I dropped her off some clothes. Smyth: Why, if she knows dozens of people, are you the one that has to drop off clothes?


MTR kept saying that all that LE was relying on was the confession of a 19 year old druggie. Why did they charge him solely based on that? Det. Smyth indicated at that point, most innocent people would say, 'hey, you got the wrong guy. I was at such and such a place, at the time, and the following people will confirm that.' So where were the people lining up to confirm that he was with them at the time. Basically, Det. Smyth called his bluff. It was great to watch MTR squirm. LE clearly had no doubt about his guilt by that time. (alibi discussion starts at around 37:00)



~44:50 Smyth: So, if you ask me why I am sitting in this room, I am sitting in this room for Tori. Making you squirm. Putting you through some of the grief that you put her through. That's why I'm in here Mike, and I'm having a good time.


~46:00 Smyth: You are a sick puppy, Michael. This is a good day for us. You should have done it yourself. Wouldn't that be a different story. If you had the balls to do this for yourself. You had to send a 19 year old to kidnap an 8 year old for you. That's what happened to Bernardo too. squirm


I loved that MTR couldn't stop speaking up after he said he was done talking. Det. Smyth would lure him in again...MTR just couldn't help responding. Having said that, MTR is a tough cookie when it comes to defending "MTR". It's clearly all about him and no one else. Scary. No empathy. All JMO.

BBM:

Also: sexually assaulting women and possibly their children, downloading and watching child *advertiser censored* and 'snuff films', convincing psychologically disturbed, mentally ill teenagers to kidnap a child, then proceeding to frame her for the entire crime so she would go to jail for the rest of her life (where she belongs) while he roams free to do it again (instead of going to jail for the rest of his life, where he belongs)... just a regular Michael Rafferty day. A day of terror.

I'm so glad those days are over... :woohoo: :jail:

 

[snoofer]

Derstine knew from the beginning what the evidence was that was disallowed. Although he had to represent his client, including fighting to get that evidence tossed, I don't think he liked his client much.

I'd wager even the defence team got into the bubbly the other nite

I bet you are exactly right!

 

[crazyladi]

The thanks button is missing

 

[snoofer]

He didn't answer the question, "Do you think at the end of the day you were still right about him, that he was just the stooge that was driving the car?" I don't believe Derstine believed any of it, but was just suggesting that as a defence. In my opinion, his lawyer had no doubt that Rafferty was guilty, but was just very ably going through the motions of defending him. I even think that he submitted the lone defence witness to ensure the Crown would have the last say. It's one thing to defend a killer and lose, but quite another to win. If the jury had got it wrong and failed to find Rafferty guilty on all counts, I don't think Derstine would have been smiling.

Like Hello Kitty said, I learned a lot from this trial. I wonder if there were some on the jury who did know a little about the law ie that the dupe thing was not evidence and could be "made up" meaning that the only evidence submitted from defense was the one senior lady witness. It all worked out thank goodness; what a catastrophe had it not. Derstine's comments afterward showed IMO that yes defense lawyers can KNIT a defense based on non evidence. But, it is the evidence that must be what is considered as the rest is just smoke and mirrors and not to be believed. :moo:

 

[snoofer]

The thanks button is missing

that happens sometimes...can try refreshing..sometimes it works.