Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #2

[Richmond]

<sniped from article linked above for focus - read more>


Ask yourself, "where would this investigation be today without aware citizen's tips"? "How was sexual predator/serial killer Jesse Matthew enabled to prey on unsuspecting innocent victims for years or likely over a decade"? The antiquated investigative strategy of Silence; "I'm sorry we can't release that info due to the integrity of the investigation".. This investigative strategy only causes innocent victim's lives lost and mounting cold cases; 'The Silent Epidemic'. imo..

"Silence by LE via MS Media/internet social media is the Predator's most lethal weapon"! When will they learn?

Where Have All The Flowers Gone??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eyof5doUFzk

(snipped for space), Foxfire, I completely agree with you. I have to say, though, that I think LE has been more open in this case than in some I have followed. Releasing the mall videos right away, etc. Lauren Spierer's disappearance was the case that brought me to Websleuths, and as I have watched HG's case unfold, I have often wondered if LS's case might have turned out differently if LE had released the video they did have of LS that night. They STILL have not released that video, almost 3 1/2 years later.

So although LE in Hannah's case may be holding back some info, I believe the early release of the mall video and really eliciting help from the public is what led to JM's arrest, and the probable discovery of HG's remains. All IMO.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I don't know which post included the formula, but from everything I've read it is indeed possible that Hannah's body could be skeletonized at this time, IMO. I remember being very surprised a few years ago when I first started reading about how quickly this can happen. Although IIRC the formula that you reference had a longer estimate, the undeniable fact is that the following (and I am sure many other things as well) can disrupt any algorithm based on temps alone:

1. Was the body exposed to water at any time?
2. What kind of potential scavengers are in the region?
3. What type of soil was the body left upon?
4. Was the body ever buried or covered?

Going by the man and the October 6 tip, scavengers cleaned the scene in early October.

 

[ILOKAL]

I wonder why they didn't know the significance? Why didn't they act on it then? Didn't they ask people in the area to be on the look-out for that very thing?

That's also when the searches were within the eight mile radius. They finished those searches and then began searching valid tips. IMO

 

[Spelly]

Has anyone seen an estimate on how long it will take to be sure if this is Hanna?

 

[Hillbilly]

Familiar with the area and I see people addressing why the Command post is so far away. Most likely it is because to have the vehicles needed on site they would need adequate space to park them all and in an area in which they may not contaminate additional evidence. That road is narrow and highly traveled, it's also a matter of public safety not to have vehicles parked everywhere if they aren't going to shut it down like yesterday.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Although nothing has been mentioned of a previous search of this location, as I recall, there were hundreds of tips coming in daily which then have to be sorted and prioritized based on various things, e.g. Distance, observations, etc. and then scheduled for searching.

Classic example of people clogging up the tip line, meaning well, but causing backlog...

 

[dotr]

Highly unlikely - touch DNA is from epithelial (skin) cells that are shed and deposited on surfaces that we touch. These cells are very,very fragile and do not last long. It is difficult to get touch DNA from items people handled multiple times in pristine conditions, much less in conditions like these.

Look at it this way, every time it rained (and it rained a lot) it was like the evidence (pants, other clothing, jewelry, etc.) was being hosed down with a garden hose, washing away anything that was there. In addition, one of the biggest enemies of DNA is plain old dirt. Dirt is filled with bacteria that basically chews up the DNA making it useless. Dirt, moisture, heat and humidity - all destroy DNA very efficiently.

All this would affect anything under her nails as well - small amounts of DNA to start with, exposed to the environment = very little chance of getting any foreign DNA (i.e. any DNA not belong to whoever the remains are).

Could DNA be retained on teeth ?

 

[noZme]

typo... guys/gals?
(snicker)

Just wanted to add a little personal "behavior" to my last post. I've taught & practiced how to stay safe for so long, that people close to me often consider my behavior "paranoid". I'm usually the "biggest guy in the room", and typically carrying a firearm. In a restaurant, I want a seat where I have a clear view of all entrances/exits. I want my seat so as my back is to no one, and I can observe everything in front of me. When speaking, I stay "arms length", and assume an "interview stance". Strong leg (gun side) back, body bladed 45 degrees, hands in front of body between waist & neck high. Often using animated hands. To the average person, this doesn't really look "off", or strange. However, to people who are always around me, they pick up on these idiosyncrasies. Just thought I'd share.

I love reading your thoughts guys/gays.

Justice for Hannah !

 

[themom]

Except that Coy Barefoot says he called the owner of the property at 3193 and was told that LE says they're not allowed to talk.

This person should have checked their property, as LE was pleading. It wasn't abandoned, but the owners lived a few miles down the road. What???

 

[teeandcee]

Now doesnt everyone feel bad for saying that nice two story red brick house with the metal roof and nice landscaping was abandoned? Lol. (A little levity)

I liked it and wished I owned it. I'm stunned at the cost of homes in this area though. Wow!

 

[skymom]

It sure is close to the road.

I wonder if the person killed in the car accident lived in the cottage.

Which car accident? (Apologies if this has already been well covered).

 

[Foxfire]

I found now this. They are talking about the person who called the tip line.

http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-where-hannah-was-found/

(snipped for space), Foxfire, I completely agree with you. I have to say, though, that I think LE has been more open in this case than in some I have followed. Releasing the mall videos right away, etc. Lauren Spierer's disappearance was the case that brought me to Websleuths, and as I have watched HG's case unfold, I have often wondered if LS's case might have turned out differently if LE had released the video they did have of LS that night. They STILL have not released that video, almost 3 1/2 years later.

So although LE in Hannah's case may be holding back some info, I believe the early release of the mall video and really eliciting help from the public is what led to JM's arrest, and the probable discovery of HG's remains. All IMO.

Starliam, my post wasn't directed to CPD Chief Tim Longo.. Imo, Chief Longo utilized all available investigative resources in the HG's investigation and should be saluted.. Imo, that is why JM is incarcerated and HG's remains have been located.. My post was directed at Albemarle County<lead in MH & HG's death investigation> and the Virginia State Police...

 

[Lamima]

Has anyone seen an estimate on how long it will take to be sure if this is Hanna?

I assume they already have her dental records and DNA (from her belongings like a hair or tooth brush)...dental records match takes how long? I'd think pretty quickly so they probably know by now, no?

 

[themom]

Just wanted to add a little personal "behavior" to my last post. I've taught & practiced how to stay safe for so long, that people close to me often consider my behavior "paranoid". I'm usually the "biggest guy in the room", and typically carrying a firearm. In a restaurant, I want a seat where I have a clear view of all entrances/exits. I want my seat so as my back is to no one, and I can observe everything in front of me. When speaking, I stay "arms length", and assume an "interview stance". Strong leg (gun side) back, body bladed 45 degrees, hands in front of body between waist & neck high. Often using animated hands. To the average person, this doesn't really look "off", or strange. However, to people who are always around me, they pick up on these idiosyncrasies. Just thought I'd share.

I love reading your thoughts guys/gays.

Justice for Hannah !

Im glad you are enjoying the tips from the guys and the gays, but what about the women on here???

 

[galaxygal]

Found on an abandoned property, behind a vacant home in a dried up creek bed. All bones. Tight dark colored pants found near bones. Body not buried and not far from the road. Locations of MH and HG and where JM lives form a triangle, so to speak.

http://wtvr.com/2014/10/18/searcher...says-god-wanted-them-to-find-what-they-found/

 

[Zuri]

Classic example of people clogging up the tip line, meaning well, but causing backlog...

In fairness, Longo asked for any info that might help them. I am glad so many people called in any info they thought might be useful. The tips may have covered many facets of the search/investigation. There are just so many hours in a day and having to sort, identify, coordinate, prioritize, and assign seems mind boggling to me. Kudos to all those that called and to the dedicated staffers of this investigation. JMV

 

[Skigirl]

I wonder why they didn't know the significance? Why didn't they act on it then? Didn't they ask people in the area to be on the look-out for that very thing?

I am guessing they had a lot of tips that sounded significant. I just meant that they didn't have a way of knowing that this particular tip was of significance relative to the others.

 

[otto]

danzn16 - I believe you are referring to a post by otto. It is located in thread JLM: Morgan Harrington/Fairfax Rape Victim - *Forensic Link* to MH #3.

It is post # 132.

The decomposition formula is y=1285/x

x=average temp in Centigrade
y=number of days until skeletonized

http://www.archeo.uw.edu.pl/zalaczniki/upload617.pdf

I made a guess, looking at the temps for the last half of Sept and the first half of Oct and estimated that the average temp is roughly 23.

temps in Celcius: http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/charlottesville-va/22902/september-weather/331243?monyr=9/1/2014

It's possible that the remains would be nothing but skeleton after approximately 55 days. Bugs and animal have yet to be factored in.

 

[Foxfire]

Familiar with the area and I see people addressing why the Command post is so far away. Most likely it is because to have the vehicles needed on site they would need adequate space to park them all and in an area in which they may not contaminate additional evidence. That road is narrow and highly traveled, it's also a matter of public safety not to have vehicles parked everywhere if they aren't going to shut it down like yesterday.

Agree Hillbilly, The incident command is usually established at a distance from the crime scene for the reasons you have given. In Public Safety; LE, FD, etc., this is referred to as 'Staging'...of equipment/apparatus..

 

[otto]

Familiar with the area and I see people addressing why the Command post is so far away. Most likely it is because to have the vehicles needed on site they would need adequate space to park them all and in an area in which they may not contaminate additional evidence. That road is narrow and highly traveled, it's also a matter of public safety not to have vehicles parked everywhere if they aren't going to shut it down like yesterday.

The property is large, and apparently abandoned. There should be plenty of room to put the command post on the property. Also, we know that the command post moved further into the park. I don't understand why the command post for a crime scene search would be moved farther away from the crime scene when there is ample space on the acreage to set up a command post.

This is the location of the command post.