Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #5

[StormyNights]

Am I the only one starting to think this might not be Hannah after all?

I am so back and forth right now.....my head is spinning from me changing direction in my mind so much!

 

[klily444]

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/dna-key-to-matthew-charges/article_65314f72-5a62-11e4-967d-001a4bcf6878.html#.VEiA2ukxKJg.twitter
Wonder what that means?

Put a name to the DNA

 

[cluciano63]

I think this is Hannah and they may be cross-checking other DNA against, perhaps, something found at the crime scene, i.e a weapon or a "rape kit" etc. If so, that could take a while. Why they have decided, Imo, not to release her identification yet is a mystery to me, as I find it hard to believe they do not know yet. But maybe they want to make any announcements possible at one time.

I hope a gag order is not immediately put into place, once he appears for charges, or whatever. If we think we are impatient these four days...going a year or two before trial(s) will be much worse, and a shame, as people begin to forget. Hoping searches for other victims keeps cases in the news throughout time until trials begin.

 

[zapped]

Am I the only one starting to think this might not be Hannah after all?

No youre definitely not alone...and the longer it takes for an identification, the more people that will likely join you.

Personally, I think they are just being careful, and that it is HG.

 

[zapped]

I think this is Hannah and they may be cross-checking other DNA against, perhaps, something found at the crime scene, i.e a weapon or a "rape kit" etc. If so, that could take a while. Why they have decided, Imo, not to release her identification yet is a mystery to me, as I find it hard to believe they do not know yet. But maybe they want to make any announcements possible at one time.

I hope a gag order is not immediately put into place, once he appears for charges, or whatever. If we think we are impatient these four days...going a year or two before trial(s) will be much worse, and a shame, as people begin to forget. Hoping searches for other victims keeps cases in the news throughout time until trials begin.

It wont be a year or two in the state of Virginia. If felony charges are brought against JLM they have to try him within 5 months from the date of indictment.

http://www.robertslaw.org/what-are-my-rights-to-a-speedy-trial-in-virginia/

 

[Heroine]

Put a name to the DNA

Yeah I got it now. I wasn't thinking right. I don't know what I was thinking really...lol

 

[klily444]

Am I the only one starting to think this might not be Hannah after all?

The Abermarle County Police put out a message TODAY asking for anyone who did that bike thing on the morning of Sept 13 on Old Lynchburg to come forward if they saw JM's car. I really don't think they'd be interested in cyclists on the same morning HG disappeared at the same place they found a body, if they did not believe it to be her. So now I lean 90% that it's her, unless they simply still do not know.

 

[Heroine]

When MH was found didn't her mom and dad just go and identify her remains and belongings? I guess there may have been nothing to identify with really though, the way they make it sound anyway.

 

[Heroine]

The Abermarle County Police put out a message TODAY asking for anyone who did that bike thing on the morning of Sept 13 on Old Lynchburg to come forward if they saw JM's car. I really don't think they'd be interested in cyclists on the same morning HG disappeared at the same place they found a body, if they did not believe it to be her. So now I lean 90% that it's her, unless they simply still do not know.

UNLESS, it doesn't matter to them that it be HG or someone else, all they know is whoever it is JM put them there. I don't mean it doesn't matter in a disrespectful way I'm just saying one is as important as the other to them I'm sure.

 

[Concerned Mama]

Technicians typically use a pie-shaped sample from a long bone, such as a femur or humerus, to extract DNA from remains, he said. The process involves creating a magnetic field to reduce the bone to powder.
“They are looking for osteocytes — the cells that secrete the bone — but the challenge is whether they can get enough cells,” Eisenberg said.

Then why take the skull and leave the bones? I wish I was a scientist....

I'm not sure why they're interviewing Eisenberg, who's in Texas. There's an interview that was posted either today or yesterday (sooo sleepy, can't think straight!) with the forensics guy in charge in Richmond. (Yes, I will go find the link!). He was talking about taking DNA from teeth, I think.

Anyway, as to why just the skull? First, do preliminary ID with dental records. Then, maybe extract DNA from a tooth?

Or maybe not. Maybe it is as Eisenberg states, and the long wait for official results is due to the delay in taking the femur bone from the crime scene to the ME in Richmond.

:bedtime: , but first let me go find those links.



ETA: Okay, so let me correct some of my statements from above, now that I've checked the links. :blushing:

First off, here's the segment from CNN that talks about the skull being examined:

http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/2014/10/21/skull-examined-in-hannah-graham-case/?hpt=sr_mid
Brian Todd reports on what investigators are doing with remains discovered in the search for Hannah Graham.

Big thanks to HartsX3 for posting that link!

A little over a minute into the video, Brandon Garrett, of UVA Law School (NOT the forensics dude -- oops!) implies that they are using the skull to test for DNA if there aren't enough body fluids and/or flesh left on the victim. It was at the end of this video that Jeffrey Ban, "Virginia's chief DNA analyst," makes the strange comment about chemical degradation when explaining it's difficult sometimes to get conclusive samples on clothing or other items.

I think I also confused the DNA tooth issue because of a great source linked by DizzyB early yesterday morning:

https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/file...c_002_4010.pdf
I just finished reading a sort of handbook linked above, about best practices for DNA IDing. Things I didn't know: teeth, followed by the femur, are the best locations to extract DNA from when remains are only skeletal. A good, if long read.

Not sure if anybody is even going to bother coming back to see if I checked, but oh well. Now I really am going to bed. :bed:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

JMO, but I think that if LE had any doubts about the remains being Hannah's, they would have tried to put a stop to the vigil at Virginia Tech tonight in her honor. And VT officials would have complied. Although technically it's a vigil rather than a memorial, to the emotions of the attendees it's the same difference.

LE is not going to risk a great big face of egg by being put in the position of saying, sorry all y'all who attended the vigil, it wasn't Hannah after all.

 

[cluciano63]

It wont be a year or two in the state of Virginia. If felony charges are brought against JLM they have to try him within 5 months from the date of indictment.

http://www.robertslaw.org/what-are-my-rights-to-a-speedy-trial-in-virginia/

Ot but I thought it was defendant who chooses...right to a speedy trial? But if he does not request one, it could drag on, I think. Jmo

 

[klily444]

UNLESS, it doesn't matter to them that it be HG or someone else, all they know is whoever it is JM put them there. I don't mean it doesn't matter in a disrespectful way I'm just saying one is as important as the other to them I'm sure.

But they believe he put them there on September 13 (when the cyclist event was going on), so how many different girls could he have done away with in one morning? G*d, I shouldn't even be asking that, actually.

 

[Heroine]

But they believe he put them there on September 13 (when the cyclist event was going on), so how many different girls could he have done away with in one morning? G*d, I shouldn't even be asking that, actually.

Oh yeah the cycling thing! I don't know where my brain is tonight! Maybe I should just go to bed...lmao....however I haven't been surprised yet with the things I've heard in this case so maybe so...lol...j/k

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Ot but I thought it was defendant who chooses...right to a speedy trial? But if he does not request one, it could drag on, I think. Jmo

That was my understanding as well. Here in CA, in the case that brought me to websleuths so long ago, David Westerfield's defense attorney demanded the speedy trial--according to much speculation, in hopes that the forensic testing would not be completed in such a timeframe.

Usually though, in cases I have followed, the defense waives the right to a speedy trial to give the defense ample time for preparation.

 

[ksj3]

JMO, but I think that if LE had any doubts about the remains being Hannah's, they would have tried to put a stop to the vigil at Virginia Tech tonight in her honor. And VT officials would have complied. Although technically it's a vigil rather than a memorial, to the emotions of the attendees it's the same difference.

LE is not going to risk a great big face of egg by being put in the position of saying, sorry all y'all who attended the vigil, it wasn't Hannah after all.

I doubt they would have done that. Purely IMO. But it's healing for the kids to "do" something. And, as you said, it was a vigil. A vigil is a period of watching or praying, not a way to remember someone.

By stopping it, they would have essentially had to admit it wasn't her, couldn't be her.

I still suspect they have more than one body. I suspect they have Hannah's, whether or not hers was the first one found (the one we know about) or not remains to be seen.

 

[AVIXEN]

I doubt they would have done that. Purely IMO. But it's healing for the kids to "do" something. And, as you said, it was a vigil. A vigil is a period of watching or praying, not a way to remember someone.

By stopping it, they would have essentially had to admit it wasn't her, couldn't be her.

I still suspect they have more than one body. I suspect they have Hannah's, whether or not hers was the first one found (the one we know about) or not remains to be seen.

Agree with you about not canceling the vigil and think, given the general transparency Chief Longo promised the public and his commitment to not stop searching until she's found, that he would have immediately resumed searching for Hannah the second he found out that the body found was not hers. JMO but I also think they have her.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I doubt they would have done that. Purely IMO. But it's healing for the kids to "do" something. And, as you said, it was a vigil. A vigil is a period of watching or praying, not a way to remember someone.

By stopping it, they would have essentially had to admit it wasn't her, couldn't be her.

I still suspect they have more than one body. I suspect they have Hannah's, whether or not hers was the first one found (the one we know about) or not remains to be seen.

I see what you are saying, but then again, they've had a month since Hannah went missing to have a vigil for watching or praying, so why wait until the remains were discovered.

And authority figures could have stopped the vigil for any number of made-up but official-sounding reasons if LE had any doubt about the identify of the remains. Yeah, students want to do something but imagine their rage if the authorities allowed them to go forward with "doing something" about Hannah knowing all along the remains weren't hers.

I too suspect that remains from more than one body have been found. Just a gut feeling.

How I WISH we'd get some official word! Thank youm Tom Petty for the classic line: "The waiting is the hardest part."

 

[popsicle]

I doubt they would have done that. Purely IMO. But it's healing for the kids to "do" something. And, as you said, it was a vigil. A vigil is a period of watching or praying, not a way to remember someone.

By stopping it, they would have essentially had to admit it wasn't her, couldn't be her.

I still suspect they have more than one body. I suspect they have Hannah's, whether or not hers was the first one found (the one we know about) or not remains to be seen.

I agree and this is not the first vigil they have had for Hannah.

 

[Ghost Horses]

Wonder why 2 miles? That's kinda crazy, although I'm sure there is a reason for it.

I took a drive down OLR in route towards the crime scene on Sunday. Noticed LE walking slowly down each side of OLR looking down for evidence. This was a good 2-3 miles before the crime scene. They are also seen on news clips released Sunday night. I assumed they were looking for missing clothes not present where the body was found, cigarette butt, HG's phone, etc. Anything related to that night that either wasn't found at the crime scene or just general evidence that JM threw out of the window. Maybe even ruts where JM pulled over for whatever reason going or coming. If they can find additional evidence to strengthen the case even more and prove that JM was in that area going to or from the crime scene then the better they will be in court. My first hunch was that they were looking for missing clothes not found at the scene idk why. Struck me as odd though and I wonder if they were looking for something specific or just going through protocol. I know with the foliage coming down that it is making finding evidence even harder. It would be very easy for the gentlemen that I saw to walk right over something hidden under the leaves and not even know it. I know at the scene of the crime they are being more methodical however. On a side note, it really impresses me how detailed and tight lipped LE is with on going investigations/cases in VA.