Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[psyquestor]

Regarding psychopathy and genetic links:

Twin analyses revealed significant genetic influence on distinct psychopathic traits (Fearless Dominance and Impulsive Antisociality). Moreover, Fearless Dominance was associated with reduced genetic risk for internalizing psychopathology, and Impulsive Antisociality was associated with increased genetic risk for externalizing psychopathology.

Read more here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2242349/

 

[ThinkHard]

As totally depressing as that is, wouldn't it be just great if we could really master this type of psychology so that we catch these things before they happen? And maybe even pioneer some new treatments and stuff? Perhaps a psychopath who hasn't yet harmed anyone could be viewed as a victim/patient, and could be compassionately cared for until they can be a functional member of society, just like people with autism spectrum disorders and so on. It doesn't really sound that far-fetched if you think of psychopathy as a neurological disorder instead of someone just having a horrible personality.

ETA: Er, not that I'm likening psychopathy with any other neurological disorder of any kind or saying that people with any kind of disorder are "not functional members of society". Just thought I would clarify that ^_^;

Actually this is a really interesting point:

May I suggest a book to everyone....its called "the science of evil", fascinating read!

Anyway so I know you may at first think autism and psychopathology have nothing in common. But they are both neurobiological deviation in the brain functioning itself. Functional MRI's have recently shed light on being able to identify autism in the future through these scans. Meaning Functional MRI's could be used as a diagnostic tool in the future for neurobiological conditions such as these.

Furthermore: Even though its said in Autism that there is a lack of empathy, this is not quite the same thing as a lack of empathy seen in a psychopath. Based on outside observation empathy often seems to be missing in Autstics, because they don't show it. Or they don't communicate what they are thinking/feeling on the inside with how they are behaving on the outside. So they may look blank, but could be processing something intense, even for anther person inside. So in empathy it is two fold, their is feeling empathy for others, and then their is acting in a way that is socially interpreted as empathetic. In Autism they muddy up the second part, but do not lack the first. In a psychopath they lack both....however likely have the charism and are queued in socially (unlike the autistic) to "play" empathetic appropriately.

It would be really fascinating in the future if such technology, could lead us to more accurate, and earlier intervention.

Hope that wasn't too boring...

 

[ThinkHard]

I have one question---and it's just a question, not a commentary or anything else. Just curiosity now. Did they ever release the identity of the white male who followed her, then decided she was safe because she'd met JM? I always wondered how they were able to dismiss him from having any involvement quickly. Heard some theories that he is retired LE, etc., but really, I'm just wondering if anyone found out who he was. He must feel terrible.

Wondered this too.....it would sound silly to try to explain it, but when I saw that man follow her on that video, the very first time I saw that, there was something familiar about the man who followed her, granted its a blurry video, but it was how he stood, moved, and his general build. If I had been in the downtown mall that night, and saw a man like that, at least from a distance, I would have thought I knew him. The weird part and this is what sounds silly, so I guess I do not even know why I am sharing. Take this as just a weird feeling and probably nothing more. But the man that followed her in the video, the white man, lets just say if it is who, looks familiar to me (and it would impossible to say), its somebody who was at least casually acquainted with JLM.

Sounds silly, I'm sure, there is no way it is who I think it could be. Its just I'm not great with faces, I remember how people carry themselves, how they walk, hairstyles, that's what gives me my reminder triggers stronger then faces. And the second I saw that video, this one person came to my memory, as if I was watching them. Again probably just mind tricks.

 

[Skigirl]

subscribing

 

[Elley Mae]

I understand given the fact JLM has been linked to three violent crimes by DNA, and accused of rape in at least 2 other cases, it might be quick to assume he is a psychopath. And perhaps he is.

But I think your statement is preemptive. We really do not know if JLM has done these things because of how his brain was when he was born, or because of severe emotional trauma in his life. All we can say with certainty is that for one to do those things to another human, they have the ability to dehumanized others, and lack empathy...which is at the root of the cause of "evil"....the second we stop looking at another human as just that.

But a psychopath is a quite specific diagnosis, that is the result of lots of evaluation, and the ruling out of other factors. Since I'm guessing you have not evaluated him, lets ease up on pigeon holing him into a specific type...because it limits our scope of understanding this case, and his motivations.

As I do agree with you on this post, I personally feel like giving a name to the reason for the behavior (mental disorder of the moment)is excusing the person for wrong doing. It's just my opinion that not all murderers/killers have a mental problem. jmo idk

 

[Foxfire]

Or it could be as simple as Evil;

Roger L. Depue “Between Good and Evil” Author & Retired FBI BSU/BAU Profiler:

My job has been to try to stop human predators before they kill again, and after studying them so closely over so many years, to me their traits seem clearly recognizable.
Evil is more than a vague notion. It is an entity, and it is manifest on the earth. It has reflexes and intuition, senses vulnerability, and changes its form to adapt to its surroundings. Those who do not believe the Devil walks this earth have not seen the things that I have seen.

Evil is not a discrete entity that springs forth fully formed. It is born in the mind, takes root there as fantasy, and prospers when normal human restraint can no longer contain it. I have seen it devour the personalities of men like Richard Speck, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Ted Bundy, turning them into blank-faced sociopaths who clearly know right from wrong, but choose, time and again, to follow their own base urges, with complete disregard for the terrible human suffering they cause.

I believe that every act of homicide causes a slight unbalancing in the world, and that it diminishes life’s universal equation. In the interest of justice, it is imperative that someone try to right that imbalance. But the task of fighting evil can take a terrible toll on the people who are charged with it. It can cost them their families, their equilibrium, their capacity for joy.

_________________________
In this first-person account of becoming the FBI’s top serial-killer hunter and a member of a religious order in an attempt to discern the true nature of good and evil, Roger L. Depue searches for an understanding of how evil develops.

Between Good and Evil is Depue’s look back at a life spent apprehending criminals, especially serial killers, first as a small-town police chief, then an FBI-SWAT team member, Behavioral Sciences Unit chief, and a developer of revolutionary law enforcement programs.

The book also examines Depue’s experience studying with the Brothers of the Missionaries of the Holy Apostles in an attempt to discover why a good person like his wife, whom he had lost to cancer, is allowed to die while monstrous criminals get to live.

Following his time in the clergy,RL Depue returned to law-enforcement and today heads one of the world’s most elite think tanks; 'The Academy'..

Between Good and Evil: A Master Profiler's Hunt for Society's Most Violent Predators
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bet...00306687?ean=9780446617499&isbn=9781594831317

 

[bestill]

I'm reading the speculation about JM and what could have lead him down this path. I'm sure the results of the football injury will be considered, but I recall an earlier post by someone who said their child was hurt by JM at school in the 7th grade, so it sounds like he's had anger issues from early on. I also think he used his "cab driver" position to lure women into letting their guard down. Now I wonder if his job at the medical center was setting the stage for his next round of victims. He sought women that were alone and vulnerable, who is more vulnerable than sedated women? What fascinates me is that he passed a background check, how in the world did that happen?

Hannah didn't stand a chance that night, once he keyed in on her it was over. It makes me so sad to think about it. I just pray she didn't suffer for long. Another question for the experts, if he were to plead guilty (when appropriate) would LE have to share with the court all the evidence they have for the sentencing phase? Just curious about that. I hope he will plead and the families won't be subjected to more pain.

 

[Nosy]

He has no bargaining chips at the moment, anyway. In a situation as grave and severe as this, the only bargaining chip anyone would accept from him is a body. Unless he's got another corpse hiding somewhere, he's done.

There is an irony there. If he ony raped and/or killed fairfax victim, HG, and MH he will most likely face death penalty. If he killed more, he can plea bargain out?!

 

[jbowman55]

Actually this is a really interesting point:

May I suggest a book to everyone....its called "the science of evil", fascinating read!

Anyway so I know you may at first think autism and psychopathology have nothing in common. But they are both neurobiological deviation in the brain functioning itself. Functional MRI's have recently shed light on being able to identify autism in the future through these scans. Meaning Functional MRI's could be used as a diagnostic tool in the future for neurobiological conditions such as these.

Furthermore: Even though its said in Autism that there is a lack of empathy, this is not quite the same thing as a lack of empathy seen in a psychopath. Based on outside observation empathy often seems to be missing in Autstics, because they don't show it. Or they don't communicate what they are thinking/feeling on the inside with how they are behaving on the outside. So they may look blank, but could be processing something intense, even for anther person inside. So in empathy it is two fold, their is feeling empathy for others, and then their is acting in a way that is socially interpreted as empathetic. In Autism they muddy up the second part, but do not lack the first. In a psychopath they lack both....however likely have the charism and are queued in socially (unlike the autistic) to "play" empathetic appropriately.

It would be really fascinating in the future if such technology, could lead us to more accurate, and earlier intervention.

Hope that wasn't too boring...

I'd like to add to what you've said here, something I was mulling over earlier, kind of in response to a post made by FindHG, #344 in this thread. The psychopath would know that his wrong actions are wrong, in an emotionally-unavailable way, with detachment and the kind of objectiveness that says, yes, I know that person X would think this is wrong, what I am about to do. They would know it, but they wouldn't necessarily FEEL it, and furthermore, the impulse to Not-Do does not exist and so would not make it through to whatever part of the brain makes the decision to alter or restrict that behavior.

Interpersonal exchanges can be made to seem normal, because the psychopath knows what a "normal" conversation is supposed to be like, but you'd better believe that the mask is always there, and behind it continues the calculation as to how best to obtain whatever it is that the psychopath wants for himself. He is talking, performing if you will, pretending to emote, and sizing you up to figure out how you can best serve his purposes.

All my opinion, though, based on other interactions that really have nothing to do with anything here. Or maybe they do. Who knows? certainly not me. Theoretical, if you will, an understanding that I've developed on a gut level as a result of my own dealings with both a narcissist and a psychopath. Thank goodness that actual psychopaths are rare.

And you are right, there could most definitely be something else going on with JM. Perhaps one day we will know, perhaps not.

 

[jrporter]

I've thought Camblos will take the diminished mental capacity route all along. This bothers me:maddening:

I think that as the charges and evidence pile up, both sides will push for taking the Death Penalty off the table in exchange for LIFE (no parole in Virginia anymore) and full allocution to crimes against the Northern VA victim, Morgan Harrington, Hannah Graham, and any others...

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree-the expense of a death penalty trial is astronomical.I'm in Ohio and followed the ghastly murders and kidnapping case of Mathew Hoffman who escaped the DP(he confessed and told LE he had placed his victims in a hollow tree where they would NEVER would have been found) but the relevant point is that the Knox Co. D.A. (May have been a different official) said a death penalty case WILL DEFINITELY bankrupt our county(knox co. Oh.)

I was thinking about the death penalty a lot last night, since the conversation seemed to either be about people wanting to see him fry, to discussions on how teacher our kids better lessons from the get go will help. I can't help but think something about these two concepts is in disagreement.

I've done plenty of research on this topic, in regards to costs, and deterrent factors, etc. But to me the death penalty issue goes back to what we teach our kids from the get go. I think we should be teaching kids that the only one who has the right to choose life or death for another living thing is God. I think we contradict this very basic principle when we allow our government to play god, and choose life or death for another person. If we want our future generation to appreciate the sanctity of life, we need to teach a basic respect and appreciation for all life. We cannot allow ourselves to be reduced to the very same dehumanizing component that a murderer does when they kill. No matter how barbaric JLM actions may have been, we have the choice and the fortitude to not turn into animals ourselves.

 

[RNER]

Wondered this too.....it would sound silly to try to explain it, but when I saw that man follow her on that video, the very first time I saw that, there was something familiar about the man who followed her, granted its a blurry video, but it was how he stood, moved, and his general build. If I had been in the downtown mall that night, and saw a man like that, at least from a distance, I would have thought I knew him. The weird part and this is what sounds silly, so I guess I do not even know why I am sharing. Take this as just a weird feeling and probably nothing more. But the man that followed her in the video, the white man, lets just say if it is who, looks familiar to me (and it would impossible to say), its somebody who was at least casually acquainted with JLM.

Sounds silly, I'm sure, there is no way it is who I think it could be. Its just I'm not great with faces, I remember how people carry themselves, how they walk, hairstyles, that's what gives me my reminder triggers stronger then faces. And the second I saw that video, this one person came to my memory, as if I was watching them. Again probably just mind tricks.

His identity and statement as to what he ACTUALLY witnessed have not been made public...IF JM was "the last person to see Hannah on the night she disappeared", then this guy could be the "last to see Hannah and JM together". Perhaps he witnessed more than we know and his identity and information are withheld for a reason. I don't feel that he has anything to do with the disappearance as a suspect, but is a key witness (for the prosecution) to what transpired. I am sure we will know about his role in all of this at the trial!

 

[vthokies19]

I want to talk about something here that is not adding up to me.

Police reported that at 1:20AM a text from Hannahs phone was sent saying I am lost at 14th and Wertland.
Hannah Graham was seen at the downtown mall area 1:08AM on camera.
She was still walking toward where Tempo was and had to get in and sit down so lets say 1:15AM she's actually inside the tempo sitting. (The Tempo restaurant owner says she was not but the police say otherwise)
*Jesse Matthew admits to buying Hannah Graham drinks when he comes to police station asking for a lawyer*
It is reported by an eye witness that Hannah was at the Tempo bar seen with JM till around 1:45 AM

Did Jesse Matthew send a text at 1:20AM? Or did Hannah send a text at 1:20 AM? Did Hannah type that text out earlier and just accidentally hit send later?

This is a mystery.

 

[ThinkHard]

I will not believe an infant is born evil. A one year old is not evil.

How we treat infants impacts what happens. Otherwise we could just leave them in a crib all day , change them and feed them and they would be ok.

Children need love, holding, having their cries answered, interactions with caregivers, and guidance not fear or violence, for instance.

I agree that no one is born evil. However there are genetic, neurological, biological, differences then can impact, influence, and interfere, with normal development, no matter how "normal" they are raised. Sometimes appropriate interventions can improve the future outlook, sometimes upbringing can make what is in nature worse. Its the old nature vs nurture question....

 

[Hank Scorpio]

would LE have to share with the court all the evidence they have for the sentencing phase? Just curious about that. I hope he will plead and the families won't be subjected to more pain.

No, if he just went and pleaded and his attorney and the state came to a resolution on their own without any trial then no other evidence would have to be presented and all files could be sealed.

Personally, I dont think any of the charges against him will ever get to a trial court. He will plead to all of it, with a deal in place to avoid the DP. It amazes me how these people can choose to take a life so quickly and without much remorse, but then when it comes time for them to face the same thing, they all try to cut a deal and save their own skin.
It really does show the sickness and evilness of certain people.

For some reason that reminded me of the transcript between GMH and LE while investigating the M.E death.
While explaining where the body is he actually apologies to the detectives for causing them all this stress....then he LAUGHS and says "well thats your job"

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,adobe-helvetica,Arial Narrow]GMH: I APOLOGIZE TO BOTH OF YOU GUYS . . .​

[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,adobe-helvetica,Arial Narrow]CB: NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO US.​

[/FONT]​

​

JC: I UNDERSTAND.​

​

​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,adobe-helvetica,Arial Narrow]GMH: YEAH, I MEAN, YOU KNOW. IT'S BEEN TRYING FOR YOU. I'M SURE THESE CASES ARE EMOTIONALLY​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,adobe-helvetica,Arial Narrow]WRENCHING.[/FONT][/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,adobe-helvetica,Arial Narrow]CB: YEAH.​

[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,adobe-helvetica,Arial Narrow]GMH: FOR YOU.​

[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,adobe-helvetica,Arial Narrow]CB: YEAH.​

[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,adobe-helvetica,Arial Narrow]GMH: BUT, THAT'S YOUR DAMN JOB. (LAUGHS) SO . . ​

[/FONT]​

​

 

[jbowman55]

Wondered this too.....it would sound silly to try to explain it, but when I saw that man follow her on that video, the very first time I saw that, there was something familiar about the man who followed her, granted its a blurry video, but it was how he stood, moved, and his general build. If I had been in the downtown mall that night, and saw a man like that, at least from a distance, I would have thought I knew him. The weird part and this is what sounds silly, so I guess I do not even know why I am sharing. Take this as just a weird feeling and probably nothing more. But the man that followed her in the video, the white man, lets just say if it is who, looks familiar to me (and it would impossible to say), its somebody who was at least casually acquainted with JLM.

Sounds silly, I'm sure, there is no way it is who I think it could be. Its just I'm not great with faces, I remember how people carry themselves, how they walk, hairstyles, that's what gives me my reminder triggers stronger then faces. And the second I saw that video, this one person came to my memory, as if I was watching them. Again probably just mind tricks.

BBM

If you are saying here what I think you're saying, I would very gently suggest that you think through the possibility that you might be correct, that your instinct is trying to tell you something, and then decide whether you should pick up the phone or not. If it's nothing, then most likely that can be proven. Just my two cents.

 

[zebra]

http://findmorgan.com/category/family-blog/

Gil Harrington’s Thoughts on January 25, 2014

The development of spiritual insight requires a persistent diminishment and distillation of self. In our process of becoming, it is the challenges that most often promote growth. I really want to find a way of reaching the point of stretch and change through joy. Such a better alternative if I could only figure out how.
I realize that the point where you collapse and break is a powerful place where expectations are shattered and discarded and so all things become possible. If you reconfigure your very being and allow transformation to occur. The effort of the struggle “strengthens” us in a way.
Our family’s exceptional challenges require and demand exceptional responses. We soldier on a secure in knowing that we are always given the tools to succeed in every place we find ourselves. The trick is to recognize, accept, and use them.
Spirit becomes most evident when more life can’t be managed. In those sharp times, in that dark place, germinates a fragile surrender; and with acceptance, solace.
241
<sniped - read more>

Sorry, a bit O/T.

Gil Harrington is truly remarkable. Against all odds and logic - given the absolutely horrific murder of her precious Morgan - she exhibits grace, strength, generosity, tenacity, and intellectual and spiritual acuity. What a great example of a woman and a human being.

 

[Kensie]

RIP Hannah.

 

[Spelly]

I wonder how LE prioritized tips. It seems like tips regarding large numbers of vultures in the southern part of the county would have had high priority for investigation.
Also, given that JM lived in the general area at one point, there's the possibilty that he had seen vultures go to work on animal carcasses and maybe he counted on this with his victims.

 

[bestill]

It amazes me how these people can choose to take a life so quickly and without much remorse, but then when it comes time for them to face the same thing, they all try to cut a deal and save their own skin.

Well we know he values his comfort and his life. He could have harmed himself when he was on the run, but didn't and his main concern before the judge in Tx was his clothes and the hard surface he was sleeping on. JM's a case study, no doubt about it. Thanks for answering.