Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[Hank Scorpio]

So am I the only one who things she may have willingly(drunk, but willingly) left with JM to go back to his place? And, I dont mean his apartment.
I personally think he talked her into going back to his place, probably even told her it was 15-20 minutes away...and proceeded to drive directly to the house on OL road. If HG believed this and was drunk she would not have gotten suspicious until it was too late.

I dunno, I think the speculation about her being drugged is possible, but not the simplest explanation..and that is usually how it ends up.

 

[Foxfire]

Anyone else watch; 'On the Record Fox News Greta VanSusteren'

'Searching for clues segment'?

Did anyone notice the discarded tire near where her body was located? Garbage dump site or JM's tire?
Ted Williams said that he was corrected by a detective when he said that HG's body was located in the dry creek bed. Also, they seemed to indicate that JM came from the vacant cottage with HG, and possibly dragged her to dispose of her body.. I think it is interesting that they indicated that JM came from the cottage. jmo

 

[dove28]

I wonder if the farmer who found MH might have run her over with a heavy vehicle immediately prior to making the discovery. I think the ME would be able to tell if that was the case, but of course, wouldn't, and shouldn't say so publically yet. It may not have been JLM's MO, and so Hannah was found with bones unbroken.

a while back someone posted a link, and forensic experts can tell if bones were broken in life versus death. so I'm assuming they concluded they were broken when she was alive based on what the parents have said. (Perhaps MH struggled a lot and bones were broken in the fight, so LJ learned his lesson and made sure to drug HG?)

 

[Emaa]

So am I the only one who things she may have willingly(drunk, but willingly) left with JM to go back to his place? And, I dont mean his apartment.
I personally think he talked her into going back to his place, probably even told her it was 15-20 minutes away...and proceeded to drive directly to the house on OL road. If HG believed this and was drunk she would not have gotten suspicious until it was too late.

I dunno, I think the speculation about her being drugged is possible, but not the simplest explanation..and that is usually how it ends up.

I think she went willingly. To where he offered to take her, I couldn't guess.

 

[Emaa]

a while back someone posted a link, and forensic experts can tell if bones were broken in life versus death. so I'm assuming they concluded they were broken when she was alive based on what the parents have said. (Perhaps MH struggled a lot and bones were broken in the fight, so LJ learned his lesson and made sure to drug HG?)

IIRC, Morgan's mom referred to her ribs. IMO they were broken as he grabbed her up and carried her to where he dumped her body.

 

[Emaa]

Anyone else watch; 'On the Record Fox News Greta VanSusteren'

'Searching for clues segment'?

Did anyone notice the discarded tire near where her body was located? Ted Williams said that he was corrected by a detective when he said that HG's body was located in the dry creek bed. Also, they seemed to indicate that JM came from the vacant cottage with HG to dispose of her body.. jmo

Interesting. So maybe the deputy's interview was staged after all.

When you say he came from the cottage with Hannah, did you take that to mean she was assaulted and murdered in the cottage?

 

[FindHG]

So am I the only one who things she may have willingly(drunk, but willingly) left with JM to go back to his place? And, I dont mean his apartment.
I personally think he talked her into going back to his place, probably even told her it was 15-20 minutes away...and proceeded to drive directly to the house on OL road. If HG believed this and was drunk she would not have gotten suspicious until it was too late.

I dunno, I think the speculation about her being drugged is possible, but not the simplest explanation..and that is usually how it ends up.

I say this respectfully, but, nope, to "willingly." The above seems so contrived and out of the realm of possibility, especially in her case. If she had any sense left to her, I would imagine as long as we're doing that here, she'd be politely repulsed by the idea, if not trying her best to get out of an increasingly nasty situation. I imagine it went from a friendly offer of a ride, trying to convince her she needed one, that arm around her got her phone, to growing confusion on her part, to his ducking in for a drink, offering her a drink, playing dumb about the phone. That it all took longer than he wanted because she wasn't going to leave until she had not much sense left or just enough to be where she could be seen.

 

[4 Free Speech]

Wouldn't she have had some obvious reaction to that, though, in front of witnesses? I know nothing about stun guns, but I would think they'd hurt/cause an immediate drop to the ground and scream.

She was not stunned, you can go to you tube and see people stunned. Her behavior is not consistent with being stunned. People usually scream.

More likely drugged with the drinks at last call and then 30 minutes to the location on Old Lynchburg. JMO. He knew about this location in advance because his mother lived nearby. It's also < 5miles form where Morgan was found on Anchorage Farm.

 

[Jmoose]

a while back someone posted a link, and forensic experts can tell if bones were broken in life versus death. so I'm assuming they concluded they were broken when she was alive based on what the parents have said. (Perhaps MH struggled a lot and bones were broken in the fight, so LJ learned his lesson and made sure to drug HG?)

Wow-were they really? I don't know why that makes it seem even more awful, but it does.

 

[ZsaZsa]

From personal experience I think she was roofied with the last drinks he ordered. It would take about 30 minutes to take effect. Just the driving time to 3193 Old Lynchburg. Scary to think that she probably knew what was going on....when they were driving up to that creepy red house. This was really happening.

Originally posted 20 days ago

What it's like to be "roofied". Here is my first hand experience with the "date rape" drug. Popular at Fraternities and University parties and killers. Thank God I had someone there who took care of me until the ordeal passed. This is what it is like.

" It was a feeling of being outside my body with no control to speak or ask for help. The only way my friend knew I was in trouble was "through my eyes pleading for help". Call the hospital I tried to say, but nothing came out. A man came in the room and tried to kiss and rape me and my friend pushed him off me. I was completely helpless". It took about 4 hours to feel somewhat normal again.

If these girls had been drugged it would be so easy for someone to rape them, take them somewhere, sell them. I believe Hannah is either in the woods somewhere, you'll probably find her skull and bones (signature of the serial killer) , like they did with Morgan Harrington.

What you described is exactly what I think Hannah was going through when she was helped out of Tempo and had to be held
up as she walked along. When she first got to the Mall she was walking purposefully. Whatever she was given, it was right there at Tempo.

 

[4MYGUYS]

So am I the only one who things she may have willingly(drunk, but willingly) left with JM to go back to his place? And, I dont mean his apartment.
I personally think he talked her into going back to his place, probably even told her it was 15-20 minutes away...and proceeded to drive directly to the house on OL road. If HG believed this and was drunk she would not have gotten suspicious until it was too late.

I dunno, I think the speculation about her being drugged is possible, but not the simplest explanation..and that is usually how it ends up.

An 18 y/o college coed, willingly going back to a much older strange guys place after just meeting him a few minutes earlier.? No.... it doesn't play out for me

 

[Emaa]

a while back someone posted a link, and forensic experts can tell if bones were broken in life versus death. so I'm assuming they concluded they were broken when she was alive based on what the parents have said. (Perhaps MH struggled a lot and bones were broken in the fight, so LJ learned his lesson and made sure to drug HG?)

I would assume if they don't find cells and tissue at the break where the body begins to repair the fracture, they can say it occurred postmortem?

 

[makista]

briefed respectfully

You're right on, there, with the pulled hamstring. The perp seems to have been ham-handed, the way he handles people. Did he get some perverse pleasure doing that coming off like some lumbering doofus, where as, he may have known to hold back from that kind of ham handedness in other circumstances, like the reports from colleagues and friends? I keep thinking about his trespassing charge for not understanding his car's oil change wasn't going to fix his problem. Well, at his age, how could he not understand an oil change enough to get angry? Seems wussy somehow. And then of course, where did he get his car fixed? Did it leak oil?

The idea is-- his parents called him the "gentle giant" because actually, emotionally he's not 32. He's the guy that still circles the Dairy Queen http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/24620587.jpg in his football jacket when his colleagues have graduated college, married and are having their first child.

BTW-his mother has moved already. I watched the interview with her neighbors. I'll post the link when I find it.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/neighbors-of-jesse-matthews-mother-speak-out-about-multiple-investigations/29263116

 

[Ollie]

If you read about the Texas Body Farm ;it describes how bodies left in a field for varying amts of time,decompose. When vultures come, they can pick a body clean in a minutes and break bones and remove teeth. This group takes donated bodies and observes everything so they can run statistics that will help solve crimes.

 

[ThinkHard]

It's more of a collapse of the legs and since she was seemingly already being held up by this BIG guy, any response should go unnoticed.

When we say stun gun, are we meaning taser?like the kind cops would use? Or is a stun gun something different? Because I've seen someone get shot with a taser and it def would NOT be a subtle reaction. I watched a grown man get shot with run, and he screeched like baby before hitting the ground and curling fetal. But is a "stun gun " different....I'm not good with my weapons?

 

[ZsaZsa]

We don't know when MH's bones were broken, do we? Have LE (or anyone else who is official) said that her bones were broken at the time of her death? I am thinking that this isn't any sort of clue to JLM's actions-and may have happened accidentally after JLM left her there. In my opinion, JLM subjected both of these girls to the same things, and that MH may have been run over by some kind of farm vehicle before she was discovered.

I've only seen where her mother described her death as "very brutal" so in my mind that equated to her having bones broken
during a severe beating, or being driven over while still alive . Even the girl in Fairfax suffered a terrific beating from him in
just a short time, then he was disturbed. No telling what this brute does when he's out there in the back of beyond with a girl...

 

[ThinkHard]

So am I the only one who things she may have willingly(drunk, but willingly) left with JM to go back to his place? And, I dont mean his apartment.
I personally think he talked her into going back to his place, probably even told her it was 15-20 minutes away...and proceeded to drive directly to the house on OL road. If HG believed this and was drunk she would not have gotten suspicious until it was too late.

I dunno, I think the speculation about her being drugged is possible, but not the simplest explanation..and that is usually how it ends up.

I hear you, but after they searched his car and apt, they found something which allowed them to file charges of abduction with intent to defile....so if she went willingly which I'm not saying she neccasarily didn't, what do you suppose they found that allowed them to file those charges if not evidence h had altered her state of mind, or restrained her? They must have found something that gives them reasonable proof she didn't leave willingly with him.

 

[ILOKAL]

I am posting links (as I find them) for Mr. Bobby Pugh's (landscaper) interviews with the contradicting dates of when he saw the black vultures at the property where Hannah was found:

"Sept 30 sighting:"
http://www.wset.com/story/26879046/man-who-called-in-tip-that-led-to-human-remains-recounts-story

"Late Sept or Early Oct sighting:"
http://www.wtop.com/41/3725983/Va-man-talks-of-buzzard-sighting-near-remains

"Oct 5th sighting/Oct 6th no vultures/9:45 AM Oct 6th called in tip
http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-where-hannah-was-found/

"Early Oct sighting:"
http://wvtf.org/post/landscaper-troubled-vultures-atop-empty-house

 

[FindHG]

Too bad he left. But, if he was that close to her and didn't smell her, the vultures must not have been there for her or she was significantly upstream or at least partially buried - or I guess already devoured, but then why would the vultures hang around and why would he not see her? We had those heavy rains nine days later.

Oh, that only leaves more questions!

There's always the chance that he wasn't done, that he may have wanted to return, but things got hotter for him sooner than he may have wanted, so he couldn't. The time, from when the tip was called in to when Hannah Graham was found, was natures work on the place and on her, the wind, the rain, the vultures, and of course a relentless search, that was in the nature of those who found her.

 

[observation]

I did not catch the searching for clues segment on FOX- can anyone elaborate on what was discussed? Would appreciate!