Hannah's Journey on 09/13

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I used google maps to virtually travel from McGrady's to Hannah's apartment. I never appreciated jus how close Hannah's apartment was to where Morgan's shirt was found. Both on 15th street. Assuming JM placed the shirt on 15th St. then he would have known HG's apartment area extremely well.
 
klily444 said:
Agreed. It just seemed that Longo implied her world was turned upside down prior to her encounter with JM. I'm curious about that. We have a hole in our timeline leading up to McGrady's that may explain why she was inclined to fall into the arms of an alleged serial killer. :(
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I doubt we'll ever find out for 100% certain why she went towards the mall. I personally think she went the wrong way. LE has indicated there are texts and calls that support that, but it's not certain, I'll grant that. I think she was roaming the mall looking for a familiar face, trying to figure out what to do, and I think her phone battery went dead and that she had no money or id with her. But again, no proof. Maybe she was looking to get picked up , maybe she was looking for a specific person, maybe she just wanted to get away from the Corner and ended up there. The only one who could answer all of this is Hannah, if she were so inclined and alive. I don't think I" d believe a word that comes out of JM's mouth on any of this, he ever starts talking, unless it could be independently substantiated. For that matter, we can't believe anyone because people don't always tell the truth

For whatever reason she went with JM. Doesn't matter what she did beforehand. She willingly head out with him. But no way she willingly ended up the way she did. At this point, the important thing is to hold JM responsible for the crimes he committed against her so that other women don't suffer the same fate.
 
klily444 said:
Y'all can laugh at me for this, but I just googled "meaning of whole world turned upside down" Here is what I got:
"turn someone's life/world upside down
to change someone's life completely, often in a way that is shocking or upsetting"

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/upside-down

Questions about the evening:
1. Why did she leave the party so quickly? She was there less than an hour
2. Where was she during the time prior to McGrady's?

In my opinion, this didn't have to do with a romantic interest. It was rumored that she wasn't seeing anyone and she wasn't even talking to anymore, and Hannah strikes me as the type that cares more about school, sports, and being with her girlfriends than putting her emotions into a boy. JMO. But it is possible that Longo, having access to her friends and possibly text messages, is alluding to something gone terribly wrong? My instincts tell me that at the first party, her drink was spiked with something...doesn't have to be a rape drug, but something....and she tried to run off the high. As in, make it go away. Then, I believe she was given a date rape drug at Tempo.
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I haven't seen the context of Longo's quote, but couldn't it be as simple as he was saying that Hannah was a young college student who had gone out to have fun and her world was turned upside down by the fact that she was now missing and likely, not under voluntary circumstances?
 
sixecho said:
Ah, I see what you mean. Sorry. I was wrong. I always thought the door to the far right was a part of McGrady's. Now I see that it's most likely not. Anyone know if that door is part of McGrady's?


View attachment 62398
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Its not. I don't remember what the other businesses are in that building off the top of my head, but there are one or two additional businesses next to mcgradys in that building. I think both of them would have been closed since they are not bars/restaurants. (I know a battery speciality shop used to be there). The building is called the Old Monticello Dairy building if someone wants to google
 
Charlie Chan said:
I "think" that this is the correct thread to place this comment. It's about JM's car and how I think LE may have put two and two together. I think that a business had a webcam and that orange car was seen speeding by it (in the direction of Old Lynchburg Road) and then, X number of hours later, that same VERY distinct car was seen "returning" to town. That could be how they knew what kind of car to look for? Dark, grainy but still could make it out somewhat. Then, the two videos show JM with HG...he drives that car. It fit. And perhaps gave LE an idea of the final part of HG's journey looked like. Is this crazy? Because to my knowledge, we never learned how LE knew to look for this car.
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I don't believe they would have (or legally could have) gotten a warrant simply on the basis of identifying Matthew in the video and then connecting him to the car. I think the cops have video that shows Matthew putting or helping Hannah into his car - that's why they got the warrant for his car before they ever even approached him for questioning. You have to have pretty strong probable cause for a warrant and just seeing someone on a video and then randomly seeing their car on video in this instance I don't think would have been sufficient. I firmly believe that the cops have more video implicating Matthew (since he claims that he only bought her a drink and then they both parted ways) and showing Hannah getting into that car either willingly or by force.
 
klily444 said:
I still believe her drink was spiked at the first party, and I believe JM spiked her drink too, just not with the same thing as earlier, or she wouldn't have been running like we see earlier.
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If this were to be true.. then man, that's some rotten luck. In all my years of drinking and partying I probably know 3-5 people who have ever had their drink spiked. I'd be surprised if it was true for Hannah twice in one evening. I could see her leaving the first party just having had too much to drink, and wandering around in a bit of a drunken haze, then JM slipping something in her drink later, but I don't think this was the case on both occasions. JMO.
 
Thanks for the link, Klily444. Yes that is different and not as ominous, it also appears to be a guess with the "I think" tacked on. But if Hannah knew McGrady's because she had been there with the ski team then I think the guess was wrong.


LG3 said:
I have posted this very theory a little while back and I think it is exactly how he befriended her so quickly. IMO he swooped in as the rescuer and immediately gained the trust of a girl who was in an unfamiliar place, surrounded by much older people partying on the downtown mall. It totally explains how WG said she appeared to know him.
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It may have appeared she knew him (JM) because she knew him. It is the most simple explanation. Hannah was in the bar, possibly with a dead phone. She could have asked Abby or any of the bartenders to call her a cab. I imagine closing time on a Friday night would generate at least a couple of cab requests. Or she could have asked to use a phone. She did neither.


I'm not able to reconcile a straight A student for 6 years being so trusting, naive, and fearless of letting a complete stranger pick her up, buy her a drink, and give her a ride. I think she was smarter than that. I know LE said they have no reason to believe Hannah knew JM, but that's different than knowing for a fact. I am not saying Hannah knew him well, only that he wasn't a complete stranger. Heck, you can be married to someone for 30 years and think you know your spouse only to find out you never really knew him or her.
 
On the locked thread titled Maps & Videos where it shows Hannah walking past Tuel's Jewelers, on the page of the thread that lists the various maps and videos, above this link it says that the man (clearly JLM) is walking a few steps behind Hannah. I have looked at it over and over and they definitely appear to be walking click-step, side-by-side even with the same stride. Hannah is walking briskly and comfortably - much differently that the way she was walking at McGrady's. IMO. Is this how others see it?
 
ILOKAL said:
On the locked thread titled Maps & Videos where it shows Hannah walking past Tuel's Jewelers, on the page of the thread that lists the various maps and videos, above this link it says that the man (clearly JLM) is walking a few steps behind Hannah. I have looked at it over and over and they definitely appear to be walking click-step, side-by-side even with the same stride. Hannah is walking briskly and comfortably - much differently that the way she was walking at McGrady's. IMO. Is this how others see it?
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In the beginning people were suspicious of WG because he was following Hannah. I think people thought he was behind Hannah when there was just a reflection in the store window which was actually JLM walking beside her. Is that post from that time?

Not sure I'm making sense.
 
sixecho said:
I used google maps to virtually travel from McGrady's to Hannah's apartment. I never appreciated jus how close Hannah's apartment was to where Morgan's shirt was found. Both on 15th street. Assuming JM placed the shirt on 15th St. then he would have known HG's apartment area extremely well.
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JM was a taxi driver before so he knew the city well.
 
LI-Mom said:
In the beginning people were suspicious of WG because he was following Hannah. I think people thought he was behind Hannah when there was just a reflection in the store window which was actually JLM walking beside her. Is that post from that time?

Not sure I'm making sense.
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Yes, I understand what you're saying but I really don't recall if WG or anyone else is behind them. Didn't appear to be. In this one it is clearly Hannah walking side-by-side with JLM.
 
jamicat said:
I doubt we'll ever find out for 100% certain why she went towards the mall. I personally think she went the wrong way. LE has indicated there are texts and calls that support that, but it's not certain, I'll grant that. I think she was roaming the mall looking for a familiar face, trying to figure out what to do, and I think her phone battery went dead and that she had no money or id with her. But again, no proof. Maybe she was looking to get picked up , maybe she was looking for a specific person, maybe she just wanted to get away from the Corner and ended up there. The only one who could answer all of this is Hannah, if she were so inclined and alive. I don't think I" d believe a word that comes out of JM's mouth on any of this, he ever starts talking, unless it could be independently substantiated. For that matter, we can't believe anyone because people don't always tell the truth

For whatever reason she went with JM. Doesn't matter what she did beforehand. She willingly head out with him. But no way she willingly ended up the way she did. At this point, the important thing is to hold JM responsible for the crimes he committed against her so that other women don't suffer the same fate.
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If she was trying to get home when she was on Preston the streets are numbered which would have helped her. Walking on Preston towards UVA the numbers get larger and walking towards the DTM the numbers get smaller. It really seems like she was not trying to go home but was trying to find some place. And you notice how she turns down 2nd St. to go into the DTM. I don't think that was just some random turn. I think she knew the mall was there and she knew where she was going. 2nd St. is the first street that leads into the DTM from the direction she was walking. The police are acting like HG not only was lost but didn't even know what street she was on for example they say she thought she was on Main when really she was on Preston. I don't buy it! There are signs all around her and she was looking at them.
 
LI-Mom said:
I popped on because I thought of something.

Friends of Hannah's said they didn't know why she would be at the pedestrian mall because she was unfamiliar with it. I just remembered that every year the Cavalier Marching Band has a pep rally called Paint the Town Orange. They march and play through that mall. Cavalier fans are encouraged to attend, wearing orange.

It is possible that Hannah had been to those. So while it doesn't mean she would be extremely familiar with the area, she may have had some knowledge of it. Just putting that out there.

http://www.virginiasports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/082514aah.html

(There are videos on YouTube)
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I think it's quite possible that in the absence of owning a car, UVa students may be familiar with the campus and immediate surroundings, but much less familiar with the town itself despite being in relatively close proximity and having lived there a year or more. In addition, it's possible that she walked/was driven to the downtown mall as part of a group and didn't really pay much attention to specific directions. Coming from the much more densely populated Northern Virginia area, she may very well have seen C'ville as a sleepy and safe little college town so her "guard" was down...
 
Jmm124567 said:
If she was trying to get home when she was on Preston the streets are numbered which would have helped her. Walking on Preston towards UVA the numbers get larger and walking towards the DTM the numbers get smaller. It really seems like she was not trying to go home but was trying to find some place. And you notice how she turns down 2nd St. to go into the DTM. I don't think that was just some random turn. I think she knew the mall was there and she knew where she was going. 2nd St. is the first street that leads into the DTM from the direction she was walking. The police are acting like HG not only was lost but didn't even know what street she was on for example they say she thought she was on Main when really she was on Preston. I don't buy it! There are signs all around her and she was looking at them.
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But she was also intoxicated to a greater or less extent...
 
jrporter said:
I think it's quite possible that in the absence of owning a car, UVa students may be familiar with the campus and immediate surroundings, but much less familiar with the town itself despite being in relatively close proximity and having lived there a year or more. In addition, it's possible that she walked/was driven to the downtown mall as part of a group and didn't really pay much attention to specific directions. Coming from the much more densely populated Northern Virginia area, she may very well have seen C'ville as a sleepy and safe little college town so her "guard" was down...
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I believe that all UVa students know where the DM is and how to get there (and it would NOT be by foot). The DM is where you would have brunch/dinner/lunch when your parents visited for the weekend, etc. If HG is as smart as they say, there is no way that she was a 2nd year student at UVa and did not know that she was headed towards downtown and the DM. IMO...no way.
 
ILOKAL said:
Yes, I understand what you're saying but I really don't recall if WG or anyone else is behind them. Didn't appear to be. In this one it is clearly Hannah walking side-by-side with JLM.
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I don't know how many versions of the videos are out there, some may be edited shorter, but the Tuel video where Hannah is walking beside JM shows a white, middle aged male a few paces behind them and a group of young men behind him. At the time that video was first released the white middle aged male was thought to be the same man in the previous video who ducks into a store entrance then follows Hannah. LE did not see JM, they said it was Hannah's reflection. So at the time that post was made here, maybe WG was still the POI is all I'm saying.

JM was not behind Hannah in that video, he was beside her but missed by most people including LE. Longo mentioned at a presser that they reevaluated the video after many people said it was a person. They matched the person beside Hannah to the person in the early video where JM changes direction to follow Hannah and then he became the POI. Particularly after WG went to the station to report what he saw.
 
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