Hannah's Journey on 09/13

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I would be suspicious of anyone who talks to a girl he didn't know on the street, who he claims was very drunk, and then proceeds to follow her when she moves on. What was he planning to do in that situation? Take her home? Who does that in the early hours of the morning? The motives for a young male to follow a drunk female wandering alone at 1AM in the morning are usually singular IMO. That seems to be the sort of scenario that you would expect to end badly, no matter if intentions were good or bad. We have his behavior on record, we don't have JMs. The allegation about JM interacting with HG apparently came from this guy. I would be curious to know if he was interviewed before or after the videos were released. If you discount his claims about what happened after she left the field of view then you would have JM returning to the bar and buying his drinks without interacting with her on the street, which would be consistent with the time stamp information. And if he was buying drinks for HG there would have had to have been some social interaction preceding that which went considerably beyond just "Hi!". You could see that maybe happening if they met INSIDE the bar, but not outside it.

Inside the bar we apparently have one witness who claims to have seen them inside, even though the doorperson checking ID didn't see either of them re-enter. And then you have the doorperson who claimed to have seen them outside after closing. But again, there are issues with the doorpersons overall account, since she claims to remember JM clearly from his behavior outside the club which caused her to remember seeing him walk by later with HG outside, but not see the exact same guy walk back into the club right past her minutes later, so according to her he didn't come back in. My guess is that she developed that account BEFORE the CC transaction involving JM inside the bar was known, and if that is true then her account could be impeached.

We also have the claims that the bar owner said that there was another customer who looked vaguely similar to HG at the bar that night. It is possible that JM may have been interacting with her, might have bought drinks for her, and that could account for the witness inside claiming to have seen them. JM would not know if this other woman was HG or not, so he himself might believe that the woman we talked to was HG when confronted later about it. This mystery woman could not have been HG herself, since HG was on the street minutes before and there would be insufficient time to allow for a social interaction prior to buying drinks. If JM had been talking to this other woman in the bar, he might believe now that it was HG and that, combined with all the other evidence pointing at him that LE have been releasing, made him fearful, and that could account for his subsequent behavior over the next few weeks.
 
Bear with me, haha. It's just an alternate theory and what I believe is the next best theory. Like I said, I think there's a 95% chance that JM did it but WM's behavior really bothers me and, taken in context, leads me to believe this could have been premeditated. If so, that greatly changes how we should look at HG's disappearance. That would also mean that HG may be held captive but alive.
I agree sixecho, what is the old saying about gut reaction? When videos were first released most everyone, on their own felt terribly alarmed by WG movements in those 2 tapes. JM is an easy suspect mostly due to his history and also due to his interaction with the missing HG, but some of his behavior afterwards leaves me room to see that he could also have been stupendously unlucky.
 
The problem with all of those theories is that no one has been placed with Hannah after she went off with JM. A lot of things possible, but spun out of air I wouldn't be one bit surpised if WG had the very same intentions as JM did , but JM beat him to the draw with his hug and greetings, and with Hannah aquiesing. WG talked to LE and I'm sure gave accounting to his whereabouts for the rest of the early morning and next day. JM has not. There is a reason why LE is focused on JM and not WG.

I agree that there is a chance still that Hannah is held captive or lying helpless somewhere, possibly alive, but it's been a long time I hope that LE had made some good attempt to question JM from the onset, before seizing his car with someone very good, very skilled at questioning, because if JM had left Hannah alive somewhere, the chances were better then than now of so finding her. Acc to LE, they got zero info from JM. Frankly, if cops in the early AM came to my door and grabbed my car and phone without so much of a, let's sit down and let me tell you that life might be at stake here, I don't know how cooperative I would be if I were a black man involved in a white woman's disappearance. Not that much of an attempt was made. LE said that JM and his roommates just left and they have no idea when or how No one was paying any attention to them, which is odd IMO.
 
Its just my gut about WG. But also we really dont know what evidence is held against JM at this point either. His behavior and history are damning, but he hasn't exactly been able to come here and refute any of our theories either. I just wish we knew about the forensics (I know we probably won't) because IF he is innocent we have already dragged every blemish of his out into the open. Sigh. Jmo
 
I was wondering if it has been discussed whether or not it is possible if she went back to her apartment between the time she left the last party at 12:15a and the time she first shows up at McGrady's at 12:45a? That would account for the 40-plus unaccounted minutes. Maybe she was on her way to another party and felt like she needed to go to the bathroom or she felt like throwing up. With all that drinking, both are possible. She then proceeds to the party and somehow ends up near McGrady's. She comes from the east instead of the west because that is the route she took from her apartment? I can't recall where her apartment is. And I know it doesn't explain why she ended up in downtown, but if she was already home, there must have been a compelling reason she ventured out again. Surely one of her friends or acquaintances know. Just watching that video of Hannah wandering all alone past midnight makes me so sad. Poor baby girl. Her poor parents. My daughter went missing when she was three years old. My mother was home watching the kids while I was at a dinner party and got the phone call that they couldn't find her. I ran out of the restaurant and got into a car accident. I lost my mind. It ended up that she was hiding in the house and fell asleep, but it took an hour and the entire neighborhood looking for her to finally find her. I'm not trying to equate my experience at all with what Hannah's parents must be feeling every moment these past two weeks. But that feeling of losing your baby, however fleeting it was for me, was the worst I have ever experienced. I can't imagine the agony Hannah's parents must be going through. I hope and pray they find Hannah soon and that the monster that took her away gets what he deserves.
 
One thing....if she had a modern cell phone there was zero possibility that she was lost, since all of those come with map functions.

The text message claiming she was lost probably has a different context other than physically being lost. My interpretation of that is that she was looking to go somewhere specific, but for which she didn't have an address, just landmark descriptions. Something like "go to the gas station, turn right, and its the third house with the blue police box outside" sort of thing. That is the only scenario where you could be "lost" with a modern phone. "Lost" would then mean "I can't find that place, so come and get me and take me there".

Perhaps it refers to a house party she had been at earlier with friends, but was unfamiliar with. The friends would have taken her there initially, so she could have only a vague idea of where it was, not an actual address. If she then went looking for it afterwards, then she would be "lost".
 
I would be suspicious of anyone who talks to a girl he didn't know on the street, who he claims was very drunk, and then proceeds to follow her when she moves on. What was he planning to do in that situation? Take her home? Who does that in the early hours of the morning? The motives for a young male to follow a drunk female wandering alone at 1AM in the morning are usually singular IMO. That seems to be the sort of scenario that you would expect to end badly, no matter if intentions were good or bad. We have his behavior on record, we don't have JMs. The allegation about JM interacting with HG apparently came from this guy. I would be curious to know if he was interviewed before or after the videos were released. If you discount his claims about what happened after she left the field of view then you would have JM returning to the bar and buying his drinks without interacting with her on the street, which would be consistent with the time stamp information. And if he was buying drinks for HG there would have had to have been some social interaction preceding that which went considerably beyond just "Hi!". You could see that maybe happening if they met INSIDE the bar, but not outside it.

Inside the bar we apparently have one witness who claims to have seen them inside, even though the doorperson checking ID didn't see either of them re-enter. And then you have the doorperson who claimed to have seen them outside after closing. But again, there are issues with the doorpersons overall account, since she claims to remember JM clearly from his behavior outside the club which caused her to remember seeing him walk by later with HG outside, but not see the exact same guy walk back into the club right past her minutes later, so according to her he didn't come back in. My guess is that she developed that account BEFORE the CC transaction involving JM inside the bar was known, and if that is true then her account could be impeached.

We also have the claims that the bar owner said that there was another customer who looked vaguely similar to HG at the bar that night. It is possible that JM may have been interacting with her, might have bought drinks for her, and that could account for the witness inside claiming to have seen them. JM would not know if this other woman was HG or not, so he himself might believe that the woman we talked to was HG when confronted later about it. This mystery woman could not have been HG herself, since HG was on the street minutes before and there would be insufficient time to allow for a social interaction prior to buying drinks. If JM had been talking to this other woman in the bar, he might believe now that it was HG and that, combined with all the other evidence pointing at him that LE have been releasing, made him fearful, and that could account for his subsequent behavior over the next few weeks.

Yes, we know WM's allegations were, in part, true because we have clear video footage of him following HG and then him continuing to follow JM and HG. It does bother me that JM and HG were able to get into close proximity after about two minutes. I'm just speculating, but maybe JM said he could get HG into Tempo. She seemed determined to get into McGrady's bar. She seemed determined to get into a bar in general that night (possible hazing?). Or perhaps they did know each other. Anyway, JM told his grandma that he purchased drinks for HG but she didn't get in his car. What motive would JM have to make this up? This would also match up with HG being in Tempo and JM purchasing two drinks for HG. HG and JM walking to Tempo still fits in perfectly with the timeline. Tempo is very close to where everyone was picked up on video. Also, I take what Tempo says with a grain of salt because they have much to lose in the matter.

If HG did not enter tempo with JM then that means she would have been waiting outside, however, if HG's behavior says anything that night it was that HG was constantly on the move. I just don't see her waiting outside for a guy she may have just met. I also don't see JM buying two drinks inside while there's a college girl outside the bar waiting for him.
 
One thing....if she had a modern cell phone there was zero possibility that she was lost, since all of those come with map functions.

The text message claiming she was lost probably has a different context other than physically being lost. My interpretation of that is that she was looking to go somewhere specific, but for which she didn't have an address, just landmark descriptions. Something like "go to the gas station, turn right, and its the third house with the blue police box outside" sort of thing. That is the only scenario where you could be "lost" with a modern phone. "Lost" would then mean "I can't find that place, so come and get me and take me there".

Perhaps it refers to a house party she had been at earlier with friends, but was unfamiliar with. The friends would have taken her there initially, so she could have only a vague idea of where it was, not an actual address. If she then went looking for it afterwards, then she would be "lost".

I totally agree. No way she was lost with an iPhone. Chances are her friends all have smart phones as well. She didn't really even seem lost in the videos and did not appear to have her phone in hand as a lost college kid would have. My theory is that that text was suppose to be sent earlier when she left her place, Camden apts, to go to the second party which is kind of off 14th and Wertland st. Also, I just realized, maybe the time stamps are a little off because HG's cellphone is on military/'international' time. I noticed this on her twitter. I doubt it but it could be a possibility. Most likely, the text didn't send the first time. I have an iPhone. This can happen from time to time.
 
I totally agree. No way she was lost with an iPhone. Chances are her friends all have smart phones as well. She didn't really even seem lost in the videos and did not appear to have her phone in hand as a lost college kid would have. My theory is that that text was suppose to be sent earlier when she left her place, Camden apts, to go to the second party which is kind of off 14th and Wertland st. Also, I just realized, maybe the time stamps are a little off because HG's cellphone is on military/'international' time. I noticed this on her twitter. I doubt it but it could be a possibility. Most likely, the text didn't send the first time. I have an iPhone. This can happen from time to time.
Lost 14th and wertland. Could "lost" have been used poetically by Hannah? I have read she was very witty and funny.
 
I was wondering if it has been discussed whether or not it is possible if she went back to her apartment between the time she left the last party at 12:15a and the time she first shows up at McGrady's at 12:45a? That would account for the 40-plus unaccounted minutes. Maybe she was on her way to another party and felt like she needed to go to the bathroom or she felt like throwing up. With all that drinking, both are possible. She then proceeds to the party and somehow ends up near McGrady's. She comes from the east instead of the west because that is the route she took from her apartment? I can't recall where her apartment is. And I know it doesn't explain why she ended up in downtown, but if she was already home, there must have been a compelling reason she ventured out again. Surely one of her friends or acquaintances know. Just watching that video of Hannah wandering all alone past midnight makes me so sad. Poor baby girl. Her poor parents. My daughter went missing when she was three years old. My mother was home watching the kids while I was at a dinner party and got the phone call that they couldn't find her. I ran out of the restaurant and got into a car accident. I lost my mind. It ended up that she was hiding in the house and fell asleep, but it took an hour and the entire neighborhood looking for her to finally find her. I'm not trying to equate my experience at all with what Hannah's parents must be feeling every moment these past two weeks. But that feeling of losing your baby, however fleeting it was for me, was the worst I have ever experienced. I can't imagine the agony Hannah's parents must be going through. I hope and pray they find Hannah soon and that the monster that took her away gets what he deserves.

I also wonder about the unaccounted time between the time she left the second party and the time she showed up at McGrady's. The only thing is that she approached McGrady's from the direction opposite from her apartment. Her apartment is behind McGrady's. To be honest, it's almost as if she approached McGrady's from the downtown mall area, couldn't get into McGrady's and headed back towards downtown mall.
 
ninij9, I think it's possible but we'd probably have to be her close friends to really get a second meaning if there was one. I also have got the feeling she was witty and funny as well.
 
I also wonder about the unaccounted time between the time she left the second party and the time she showed up at McGrady's. The only thing is that she approached McGrady's from the direction opposite from her apartment. Her apartment is behind McGrady's. To be honest, it's almost as if she approached McGrady's from the downtown mall area, couldn't get into McGrady's and headed back towards downtown mall.

I think Hannah wanted to see if there were familiar faces there. Of the places in that area, McGrady's is the most popular in the way of student hangouts. I noticed it was mentioned in tail gating recs for UVA: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/footba...ere-ties-are?urn=ncaaf-104428&time=1289599811 From what some UVA kids we know say, the location in Preston makes those bars not as often frequented by UVA students. It is of note that she did not run into groups of kids that were clearly from the University while at the mall.
 
I still don't like WG. What if JM really did part ways with HG after? I'm guessing LE has checked out WG the whole rest of that early morning? JM looked like he was cruising for chicks in Sales Pizza video but WG made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. He just made me feel dizzy. I just dont like his behavior, and his description? I nay get age height and weight wrong, but shaved head vs dreads. Smh

I don't like WG either. I think JM may have just gotten in his way. If WG was concerned with HG he could have just asked her if she's OK when she passed him. Why follow her? In any case, LE needs to keep a close eye on WG.
 
I don't like WG either. I think JM may have just gotten in his way. If WG was concerned with HG he could have just asked her if she's OK when she passed him. Why follow her? In any case, LE needs to keep a close eye on WG.

Recalling what I was like as a college student (eons ago!), I would have been more apprehensive of someone of WG's apparent age, than I would be of someone closer to my age. IMO, JM looks younger than his actual age. Perhaps, WG didn't wish to frighten her by approaching her directly. JMO
 
I'm not sure if it was this thread or not, but I read that Hannah's iPhone stopped pinging at 1:30am. Is that solid fact?

Wouldn't the pings show she was in the same place or at least not moving for ~20 minutes she/they were in or outside Tempo's? If the pings show the phone a couple of blocks away or moving fast (in a car) before 1:30am, it would bring into question the Tempo claim of them leaving at 1:40-1:45am.

Also do we know whether they went back towards the pedestrian area where JM picked her up or onto Water Street?
 
I don't like WG either. I think JM may have just gotten in his way. If WG was concerned with HG he could have just asked her if she's OK when she passed him. Why follow her? In any case, LE needs to keep a close eye on WG.
Well I have gone back and watched the tuel video again also. In this one WG is also behaving WAY more suspiciously than JM IMO. I have also refreshed myself with the pressers in regards to WG: it says he came forward after being seen on videos. LE never directly says WG gave the description of BM. LE said a Witness did. Never not once has LE cleared WG of involvement (I may be wrong here though). What bothers me most? THIS::: WG was coming from SAME direction as HG. He ALREADY knew she was behind him. He even looks over his shoulder. Did he follow her from McGradys? I dont buy his story. Go back and look at Tuel video. HG walking with JM and creepy WG fast walking close behind. I hope LE not suffering tunnel vision after all. JMO
 
Well I have gone back and watched the tuel video again also. In this one WG is also behaving WAY more suspiciously than JM IMO. I have also refreshed myself with the pressers in regards to WG: it says he came forward after being seen on videos. LE never directly says WG gave the description of BM. LE said a Witness did. Never not once has LE cleared WG of involvement (I may be wrong here though). What bothers me most? THIS::: WG was coming from SAME direction as HG. He ALREADY knew she was behind him. He even looks over his shoulder. Did he follow her from McGradys? I dont buy his story. Go back and look at Tuel video. HG walking with JM and creepy WG fast walking close behind. I hope LE not suffering tunnel vision after all. JMO

I agree totally...something is just not right with WG. The way he's looking around, and then on his phone. Your theory about who may have provided the description is interesting, as well. Things that make you go...hmmmmmmm.
 
In viewing HG's Twitter feed, I was surprised how many of the screen shots she ultimately posted have a "No Service" indicated on them. Maybe I'm looking at the pictures wrong, but it seems to me that whatever carrier she had provided poor service in a number of areas she was. I wonder if her last text could actually have been sent earlier, but because of her lack of carrier service it didn't get delivered until 1:40.
 
Also, FWIW, I have trouble reading my iPhone's maps when I haven't been drinking. HG may have been too under the influence to read hers or unwilling to stand still long enough to figure out where it said she was. If she was uncomfortable in her surroundings, she may have thought she'd figure it out later.
 
Well I have gone back and watched the tuel video again also. In this one WG is also behaving WAY more suspiciously than JM IMO. I have also refreshed myself with the pressers in regards to WG: it says he came forward after being seen on videos. LE never directly says WG gave the description of BM. LE said a Witness did. Never not once has LE cleared WG of involvement (I may be wrong here though). What bothers me most? THIS::: WG was coming from SAME direction as HG. He ALREADY knew she was behind him. He even looks over his shoulder. Did he follow her from McGradys? I dont buy his story. Go back and look at Tuel video. HG walking with JM and creepy WG fast walking close behind. I hope LE not suffering tunnel vision after all. JMO

I wholeheartedly agree! My fear is that LE could be focusing on the wrong guy and that Hannah is still out there suffering. WG bothers me to no end. I even called it in to the tip line. IMO the operator sounded a little nervous after I said what I had to say... maybe that's a good thing. Maybe they're following WG's trail right now and JM is a major distraction. I can only hope. That WG is extremely disturbing. He could have been following the whole time. Remember earlier in a post I said that perhaps Hannah was catfished because Hannah checks her phone right as WG puts his phone away and thats right when HG passes WG who would be be somewhat hidden to HG at that time.
 

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