Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

[Who_What_When]

From most of the comments it seems like a lot of people have made up their minds and won't even consider that it could have been an accident. I keep reading that it doesn't matter how she died just that Casey did it, well how do you know that? I don't see any concrete evidence showing me that Casey murdered Caylee. The only thing that I see that even comes close to tying Casey to this is her trunk (the smell and hair), but that only proves that she put her in the trunk. It doesn’t prove that she murdered her. She could have accidentally drowned or died from being left in a hot car. I’m not saying that this is what happened, BUT without knowing how she died how can anyone say she is guilty of first degree murder? This is why the jury will have to believe that chloroform or the duct tape was used as a weapon otherwise it hasn’t been proven BARD. JMO

 

[pcrum12]

Add duct tape to this scenario,cut out of her hair by the coroner:twocents: And putting her to sleep with chloroform wouldn't be negligent homicide, would it? Wouldn't that fall under aggravated child abuse? I just don't see this as an accident......she is going to spend 3 yrs of her life in jail when LE gave her every chance to say it was an accident and she panicked.....

Forgot one thing, as to the 3 yrs in jail. That's who she is about EVERYTHING. She's not at the end of the hall yet. Her lawyer has told her she will get off, mistrial. Everyone in her life so far has fixed everything for her. She's taking it to the very end.

 

[Chewy]

Call me crazy but under no circumstance do I see ICA intentionally killing this child. I just can't go there. I still say some type of accidental death. Whether it was the pool, putting her to sleep with chloroform, I don't know. The child was obviously in the trunk but that doesn't mean she was put there alive. As for the pool, the child did not need the ladder to be UP. She could have stood on the ladder's side and got in the pool. I know I'm a minority here but I just can't go there. I don't care how many lies, hot body contest, or sex partners. That doesn't prove premeditated murder. By all accounts she loved the child. Yes, she is a young mother that took advantage of her parents to watch the child. But, there are plenty of young and older mothers that do that. They leave them here and there, etc. Can I buy negligent homicide, yes. Not Murder. IMOO

I agree, good for sharing your POV.

However, I can't see how you can reconcile someone who knows her child is dead partying like it's 1999??? I mean either Caylee was dead or she was missing, it's one or the other, and as mom, I can't under ANY circumstances explain that part away. I also can't ignore that she didn't report it to anyone for over a MONTH??? I mean she had supportive parents and friends so why not reach out?

A mother who loves her child doesn't do that.

 

[Who_What_When]

I'm glad I don't have to sit in the jury room on this one. I have a feeling it won't be fun, at all.

I just hope that they thoroughly go through all the evidence and don't rush just to get out of there. Those poor people probably can't wait to go home.

 

[RANCH]

They did not prove to me that duct tape was across her face. And you are right, I'm not good with all the different terms, aggravated child abuse would be the charge for chloroform.

So your saying the tape floated in the swamp and ended where it did?

 

[pcrum12]

From most of the comments it seems like a lot of people have made up their minds and won't even consider that it could have been an accident. I keep reading that it doesn't matter how she died just that Casey did it, well how do you know that? I don't see any concrete evidence showing me that Casey murdered Caylee. The only thing that I see that even comes close to tying Casey to this is her trunk (the smell and hair), but that only proves that she put her in the trunk. It doesn’t prove that she murdered her. She could have accidentally drowned or died from being left in a hot car. I’m not saying that this is what happened, BUT without knowing how she died how can anyone say she is guilty of first degree murder? This is why the jury will have to believe that chloroform or the duct tape was used as a weapon otherwise it hasn’t been proven BARD. JMO

Totally Agree. no COD and as to manner of death, Dr G's theory just proved the child was put in bags to conceal. Duct tape could have been to close the bag. That tape could have been anywhere at that recovery scene. Water, wind, animals, or RK could have moved, shifted that tape. So to me, no COD, no MOD. But, I have a feeling she will be convict of Murder due to the 31 days which is sad.

 

[Bon]

They did not prove to me that duct tape was across her face. And you are right, I'm not good with all the different terms, aggravated child abuse would be the charge for chloroform.

The duct tape kept the mandible in place.......and it was wrapped in her hair...and the heart sticker being put over the tape on her mouth....
No accident!!!

 

[pcrum12]

I agree, good for sharing your POV.

However, I can't see how you can reconcile someone who knows her child is dead partying like it's 1999??? I mean either Caylee was dead or she was missing, it's one or the other, and as mom, I can't under ANY circumstances explain that part away. I also can't ignore that she didn't report it to anyone for over a MONTH??? I mean she had supportive parents and friends so why not reach out?

A mother who loves her child doesn't do that.

I really believe the girl is traumatized and dissassociates. Not saying it's from sexual abuse but it could be. But also, just finding your child dead and knowing it was from your neglect or bad judgement. Can you imagine?

 

[Evan's Mom]

You know, I long thought this was "an accident that spiraled out of control" and for a time, I even fell into the kidnapping conspiracy; but after watching the trial, listening to the evidence, watching the witnesses testify, and then falling back on everything I've read since the day the story broke, I really do believe that Casey is guilty of murder.
Before, I had lots of doubt. Today, I don't think the doubts I have left are unreasonable and would have no other choice than to find Casey guilty.

 

[pcrum12]

The duct tape kept the mandible in place.......and it was wrapped in her hair...and the heart sticker being put over the tape on her mouth....
No accident!!!

devil's advocate here - the plant growth could have held the mandible. tape on one side of hair still could have just landed there. and heart sticker residue someone's imagination. no evidence to back up that one.

 

[Chewy]

I really believe the girl is traumatized and dissassociates. Not saying it's from sexual abuse but it could be. But also, just finding your child dead and knowing it was from your neglect or bad judgement. Can you imagine?

Of course. That could make sense but then take the damn stand and tell us what happened?

I don't think this is a case of premeditated murder. It's accidental IMHO but once you get busted, once it's out there why keep lying?

And then why turn around and try to blame it on your father when he had nothing to do with it?

And the lying didn't just start with Caylee's death. She has a long history of this.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Totally Agree. no COD and as to manner of death, Dr G's theory just proved the child was put in bags to conceal. Duct tape could have been to close the bag. That tape could have been anywhere at that recovery scene. Water, wind, animals, or RK could have moved, shifted that tape. So to me, no COD, no MOD. But, I have a feeling she will be convict of Murder due to the 31 days which is sad.

I know what you're saying, and I agree that I don't the state has proved premeditated murder, but in the spirit of fairness, I think they did a pretty good job of proving that the tape was placed on Caylee's face. I don't agree they proved when it was placed there, other than it being put on prior to the body beginning to visibly decompose.

BTW Welcome! and kudos for having the guts to share your thoughts

 

[SarahEcho]

I just hope that they thoroughly go through all the evidence and don't rush just to get out of there. Those poor people probably can't wait to go home.

I agree, they have to be awfully fatigued by now.

I'm hopeful they have some type of bbq event on Monday for them, after they are through with their duties for the day, assuming the jury isn't home in time for dinner that day, which would be rushed. They have trooped through this far, so it's worth taking the time to do it right.

 

[Bon]

Forgot one thing, as to the 3 yrs in jail. That's who she is about EVERYTHING. She's not at the end of the hall yet. Her lawyer has told her she will get off, mistrial. Everyone in her life so far has fixed everything for her. She's taking it to the very end.

So you think she is going to risk LWOP or even the DP because of an accident??? And not demand to testify to prove her innocence......

 

[Chewy]

You know, I long thought this was "an accident that spiraled out of control" and for a time, I even fell into the kidnapping conspiracy; but after watching the trial, listening to the evidence, watching the witnesses testify, and then falling back on everything I've read since the day the story broke, I really do believe that Casey is guilty of murder.
Before, I had lots of doubt. Today, I don't think the doubts I have left are unreasonable and would have no other choice than to find Casey guilty.

That's where I'm coming from as well. And what convinced me was her own defense team.

 

[RANCH]

From most of the comments it seems like a lot of people have made up their minds and won't even consider that it could have been an accident. I keep reading that it doesn't matter how she died just that Casey did it, well how do you know that? I don't see any concrete evidence showing me that Casey murdered Caylee. The only thing that I see that even comes close to tying Casey to this is her trunk (the smell and hair), but that only proves that she put her in the trunk. It doesn’t prove that she murdered her. She could have accidentally drowned or died from being left in a hot car. I’m not saying that this is what happened, BUT without knowing how she died how can anyone say she is guilty of first degree murder? This is why the jury will have to believe that chloroform or the duct tape was used as a weapon otherwise it hasn’t been proven BARD. JMO

You need to understand the term Corpus Delicti or body of crime. Its all the evidence in this case that shows guilt or innocence. Its not the actual body of the victim or how the victim died. You can have a guilty verdict in a murder case without a body at all. Without a cause of death because there's no body to examine. I have not seen any real evidence of an accident to consider. What does that leave? The prosecutions case.

 

[Chewy]

From most of the comments it seems like a lot of people have made up their minds and won't even consider that it could have been an accident. I keep reading that it doesn't matter how she died just that Casey did it, well how do you know that? I don't see any concrete evidence showing me that Casey murdered Caylee. The only thing that I see that even comes close to tying Casey to this is her trunk (the smell and hair), but that only proves that she put her in the trunk. It doesn’t prove that she murdered her. She could have accidentally drowned or died from being left in a hot car. I’m not saying that this is what happened, BUT without knowing how she died how can anyone say she is guilty of first degree murder? This is why the jury will have to believe that chloroform or the duct tape was used as a weapon otherwise it hasn’t been proven BARD. JMO

Again, what proves it to me is that she never testified and gave us no answer. If I accidentally killed my child, and let's face it, a lot of us are parents on here and probably have a few heart stopping moments in our lives where an "accident" could have turned fatal. But if that actually happened and people were accusing you of premeditated murder wouldn't you tell everyone what "really happened."

She's guilty of murder, don't know about first degree but she's definitely guilty.

 

[pcrum12]

Well regardless of the verdict. It will be a sad day. I'm not going to be celebrating, and cheering that Casey was convicted, got life, got death and I'm not going to be cheering that she walked, for a child is still dead. Just very very sad. Even today was sad seeing that we're at the end and there's still no reasonable answer to any of this. I've been very emotional today. For both Caylee and Casey. And the parnets and brother. No one can deny all the dysfunction in that home. Wow. Sad sad sad.

 

[Bon]

devil's advocate here - the plant growth could have held the mandible. tape on one side of hair still could have just landed there. and heart sticker residue someone's imagination. no evidence to back up that one.

Not one expert said plant growth could hold the mandible in place and heart stickers were found in Casey's room........
In 31 days why didnt she report her child missing or dead??? Does not make one oz of sense...

 

[GeekyGirl]

Of course. That could make sense but then take the damn stand and tell us what happened?

I don't think this is a case of premeditated murder. It's accidental IMHO but once you get busted, once it's out there why keep lying?

And then why turn around and try to blame it on your father when he had nothing to do with it?

And the lying didn't just start with Caylee's death. She has a long history of this.

You might lie if you had a history of not being made to take responsibility for anything. You might spend three years in jail if you really thought you had the chance of avoiding a multi decade sentence by going to trial. You might lie if you were narcissistic enough to believe that you were smarter than everyone around you, and could fool them by throwing your dad under the bus. I'm not an expert, so I can't diagnose her, but to people with NPD or APD self preservation is the number one goal, no matter what the cost is to anyone else. MOO