Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

[Obbzest]

I don't think it is as cut and dry as that. I have heard that claim disputed. You do know that Dr Baden's wife WORKS FOR THE DEFENSE TEAM, Correct?

My understanding is that she is no longer a member of the team.

 

[GeekyGirl]

What are these "diatoms".

They are organisms that live in water. Individual bodies of water have unique "diatom" signature, so the testing is really, really useful when you're trying to determine which body of water a person drowned in... Like if a body is found in a pool, but the diatoms in the pool don't match the diatoms found in the body... Then you know they really drowned somewhere else and were placed in the pool as staging.

ETA: that was a very simplistic overview... For more in depth try this... http://www.svazi.com/v1/forensic/diat_use_in_for.htm

 

[ZsaZsa]

My understanding is that she is no longer a member of the team.

Offically she signed off when the money ran out, but she is on HLN as Minister of Defense Propaganda most evenings...

 

[Who_What_When]

I've thought about this over and over. It appears she (or someone, but most likely her) did delete the searches right after Caylee's disappearance was discovered. They obviously were memorable, because I don't think I could tell you what I was googling in March, and it appears she knew they could be incriminating, but I'm struck by every other term in that search and how it just doesn't paint a picture of someone trying to plot the murder of a toddler. I think about the texts to Amy about the house and such, and I think maybe they had something to do with thoughts of killing her parents. If they were related to Caylee's death, why didn't she delete them sooner? Maybe when she realized that she was going under a microscope because of Caylee's "disappearance" it occurred to her that those "other thoughts" she was having might not look so good to LE. Then again, maybe I'm giving her too much credit. I would have discarded the thought of chloroform long ago if weren't for timing of the deletion, but there's still not enough to convince me BARD it was used.

I agree. I don't think there is any evidence that shows the Chloroform was used on Caylee and this is why I'd have to discount it. If they could show me that they found any of the materials to make it, the ingredients, a rag, a bottle or anything related to it then I might have believed it but as of right now I just don't see it. They even tested her dna and nothing. I just don't believe she was using Chloroform on Caylee.

ITA about the searches for the other items, they have never made any sense to me when it came to Caylee. I was talking to my Mom about this the other day and she thinks that maybe the "neck breaking" and the duct tape are connected.

 

[sleutherer]

Bug, food ..... food, bug .... eating buggy food ... fooding eaty bugs ............

If the bugs don't fit you must acquit!!!

 

[Who_What_When]

I don't think it is as cut and dry as that. I have heard that claim disputed. You do know that Dr Baden's wife WORKS FOR THE DEFENSE TEAM, Correct?

She use to work for the defense team, she left in 2010.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

They are organisms that live in water. Individual bodies of water have unique "diatom" signature, so the testing is really, really useful when you're trying to determine which body of water a person drowned in... Like if a body is found in a pool, but the diatoms in the pool don't match the diatoms found in the body... Then you know they really drowned somewhere else and were placed in the pool as staging.

Wow. And these diatoms end up in your bone marrow? Sounds like the defense should have had this test done a long time ago.Why not? Maybe because the accidental drowning theory is fairly new?

 

[gngr~snap]

:great:
"MOCK JURORS"


I thought a few people might like to know what someone's opinion was about the case who's brain wasn't oversatured with 3 yrs of sleuthing...
what they are thinking about the trial... The lawyers the family and ICA

Reasonable Doubt...

My daughter obliged me by rounding up a friend and watching opening and closing statements for me. They have watched a good bit of the trial but did miss some mornings being on the west coast.
They live in Seattle (Ft Lewis)and for the past two weeks thier hubbies have beeen gone on a trianing mission.
My daughter is married no kids, not pregnant, no plans to be anytime soon. She will be 20 this month... her friend is in her 20's and married that's all I know.Neither of them have cable TV!!!!and get low to no reception from local channels When their husbands are home they are playing x-box 360 and watching movies on their TV sets. The men don't talk about "news" after not having it in Iraq they don't need or want to hear it.
She said they don't discuss anyones guilt or innocence with each other... but do talk a little after trial each day they are heading to workout, swim etc. by 4:30 they are headed their seperate ways to fix dinner. They hit the sack around 9pm get up with hubbies at3:30- 4am and usually both go back to sleep for a lil while
- They won't give me their"verdicts" until the jury comes back with theirs. ***not even a freakin hint!*** they have not speculated yet. They won't until the jury deliberates. But they did sign up for verdict alert!!!:woohoo:
So far they think...
they are clueless about the "evidence" and JA his motive, they aren't buying
still can't believe 31 days! and don't understand why CA didn't put a bolo out on her sooner GA was a cop and all...
Her friends seem normal
They can't see Casey doing any of the stuff that has been reported. A picture doesn't make her a .Think maybe on the sexual abuse cause THAT GIRL AIN'T RIGHT! Believe if dad and Bro were DNA tested there was proof to her story but they think that defense dropped the ball They never explained it!! They also think that the Pros know something for objecting every time it comes up.They think she lied about having sex guys cause they wouldn't be "into" her anyway

They think she might be schizophrenic and are not being told -the fake friends...or wonder if Casey had a head injury or an accident or something. They said she doesn't seem with it half the time. And that her mood does't always fit the situation. They do see her change when the jury leaves, and have caught on that she cries for herself. What is freaky to her is she cries if it's negative or positive... and that's weird - And she acts like a preteen and where Caylee's body was found proves she's not too bright.

they thought CA GA LA and KRONK might be Red Herrings cause Baez proved nothing on them. Baez has proved nothing at all other than maybe he bought his degree online.They also think ICA is a lil too "slow" to know she has a bad lawyer
They got turned "on their heads" Friday and are completely confused and feeling not so good now cause they totally believed CA to be credible SHE's an RN for gawd sakes! They assumed Baez was completely FOS until LDB exposed CA. She still thinks CA is "NICE" but just lied cause she wants her child out of jail
can't see GA putting the baby in the woods. They think she would have disappeared forever. but that would explain them not moving he!! and high water before 31 days if they knew...
They are falling for grief in All the Anthony's and believe the crying..
I'll keep you posted...they can't wait for LDB in the AM
They hope she will close the gaps cause something is missing like if Casey wasn't abused what is her problem?

They are watching on akamai internet...

I asked again IS she guilty? she said mom... I have to deliberate first
you know that!

 

[Obbzest]

What are these "diatoms".

Diatoms are microscopic algae that are present in any body of water including your own bath water. There are more than 15,000 strains. When a person drowns, the diatoms will become lodged in some tissues / organs of the body including migration to bone marrow. Matter in the lungs is usually not relied upon because of how easily they can be inhaled threw normal activities such as swimming, bathing, etc.

 

[DairyGirl]

Regarding the situation where Caylee was there at night and gone by the morning.

My fault it was actually at Ricardo Morales apartment. Cindy allegedly called Casey in the middle of the night to bring Caylee home. But when Questioned Cindy denied any phone call that night

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4824851/Casey-Anthony-Ricardo-Morales-Interview

page 12; line 19



Cindy denies calling casey that night

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2011/0224/26984466.pdf

page 17; 2nd block

And we all know that CA is the paragon of truthfulness. CA, like KC lies for no reason at all, even when the truth would be better.

 

[sappysoul]

I agree. I don't think there is any evidence that shows the Chloroform was used on Caylee and this is why I'd have to discount it. If they could show me that they found any of the materials to make it, the ingredients, a rag, a bottle or anything related to it then I might have believed it but as of right now I just don't see it. They even tested her dna and nothing. I just don't believe she was using Chloroform on Caylee.

ITA about the searches for the other items, they have never made any sense to me when it came to Caylee. I was talking to my Mom about this the other day and she thinks that maybe the "neck breaking" and the duct tape are connected.

They made it pretty clear that if chloroform was used just prior to death it would not have shown up in hair or bones. I think the fact high levels of chloroform was found in the trunk where a dead body was combined with the computer searches is evidence. You can debate how strong that evidence is but it certainly is at least an interesting coincidence. I also think the fact nothing in regard to contents, rags, etc. wasn't found doesn't prove anything either. It was months afterward before they became aware of the chloroform and murderers don't usually leave evidence lying around for months (i.e. deleted computer searches).

 

[ohiogirl]

:great:

Reasonable Doubt...

My daughter obliged me by rounding up a friend and watching opening and closing statements for me. They have watched a good bit of the trial but did miss some mornings being on the west coast.
They live in Seattle (Ft Lewis)and for the past two weeks thier hubbies have beeen gone on a trianing mission.
My daughter is married no kids, not pregnant, no plans to be anytime soon. She will be 20 this month... her friend is in her 20's and married that's all I know.Neither of them have cable TV!!!!and get low to no reception from local channels When their husbands are home they are playing x-box 360 and watching movies on their TV sets. The men don't talk about "news" after not having it in Iraq they don't need or want to hear it.
She said they don't discuss anyones guilt or innocence with each other... but do talk a little after trial each day they are heading to workout, swim etc. by 4:30 they are headed their seperate ways to fix dinner. They hit the sack around 9pm get up with hubbies at3:30- 4am and usually both go back to sleep for a lil while
- They won't give me their"verdicts" until the jury comes back with theirs. ***not even a freakin hint!*** they have not speculated yet. They won't until the jury deliberates. But they did sign up for verdict alert!!!:woohoo:
So far they think...
they are clueless about the "evidence" and JA his motive, they aren't buying
still can't believe 31 days! and don't understand why CA didn't put a bolo out on her sooner GA was a cop and all...
Her friends seem normal
They can't see Casey doing any of the stuff that has been reported. A picture doesn't make her a .Think maybe on the sexual abuse cause THAT GIRL AIN'T RIGHT! Believe if dad and Bro were DNA tested there was proof to her story but they think that defense dropped the ball They never explained it!! They also think that the Pros know something for objecting every time it comes up.They think she lied about having sex guys cause they wouldn't be "into" her anyway

They think she might be schizophrenic and are not being told -the fake friends...or wonder if Casey had a head injury or an accident or something. They said she doesn't seem with it half the time. And that her mood does't always fit the situation. They do see her change when the jury leaves, and have caught on that she cries for herself. What is freaky to her is she cries if it's negative or positive... and that's weird - And she acts like a preteen and where Caylee's body was found proves she's not too bright.

they thought CA GA LA and KRONK might be Red Herrings cause Baez proved nothing on them. Baez has proved nothing at all other than maybe he bought his degree online.They also think ICA is a lil too "slow" to know she has a bad lawyer
They got turned "on their heads" Friday and are completely confused and feeling not so good now cause they totally believed CA to be credible SHE's an RN for gawd sakes! They assumed Baez was completely FOS until LDB exposed CA. She still thinks CA is "NICE" but just lied cause she wants her child out of jail
can't see GA putting the baby in the woods. They think she would have disappeared forever. but that would explain them not moving he!! and high water before 31 days if they knew...
They are falling for grief in All the Anthony's and believe the crying..
I'll keep you posted...they can't wait for LDB in the AM
They hope she will close the gaps cause something is missing like if Casey wasn't abused what is her problem?

They are watching on akamai internet...

I asked again IS she guilty? she said mom... I have to deliberate first
you know that!

JB could have used you in closings, you are just as much confusing as he is
What is your point here?

 

[MEM2010]

And we all know that CA is the paragon of truthfulness. CA, like KC lies for no reason at all, even when the truth would be better.

Right. But I tend to believe that Cindy's lies are to benefit ICA. If she lied about not calling ICA that night, it would be pretty damning to ICA IMO, which is why I believe it. But I know the jury won't even consider it. Just something I have always wondered. Where was Caylee?

 

[ohiogirl]

Ginger, u there?

 

[GeekyGirl]

Wow. And these diatoms end up in your bone marrow? Sounds like the defense should have had this test done a long time ago.Why not? Maybe because the accidental drowning theory is fairly new?

They can, but that too depends on a lot of factors... It gets complicated, wet vs dry drowning and such. I'm not an expert, but I think the chances of getting strong diatomic evidence in this case were pretty slim, due to the condition of the remains, but I could be wrong. Also, like you pointed out, the drowning angle wasn't raised until much later.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Diatoms are microscopic algae that are present in any body of water including your own bath water. There are more than 15,000 strains. When a person drowns, the diatoms will become lodged in some tissues / organs of the body including migration to bone marrow. Matter in the lungs is usually not relied upon because of how easily they can be inhaled threw normal activities such as swimming, bathing, etc.

So these diatoms only migrate if you drown?Interesting.

 

[Quiche]

Can't say until the Prosecution spends another couple of hours mopping the floor with any doubt the Defense may have splashed around.

I'm betting, in the end, there will be no doubt who murdered Caylee. :yes:

 

[Hot Dogs]

They are organisms that live in water.

There shouldn't be any diatoms living in pool water treated with Baquacil. That's the whole point of using a sterilizing agent such as Baquacil or Chlorine.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Right. But I tend to believe that Cindy's lies are to benefit ICA. If she lied about not calling ICA that night, it would be pretty damning to ICA IMO, which is why I believe it. But I know the jury won't even consider it. Just something I have always wondered. Where was Caylee?

I agree it's an interesting question, just think it would probably backfire if the state tried to use it at this point.

 

[cuppy199]

They made it pretty clear that if chloroform was used just prior to death it would not have shown up in hair or bones. I think the fact high levels of chloroform was found in the trunk where a dead body was combined with the computer searches is evidence. You can debate how strong that evidence is but it certainly is at least an interesting coincidence. I also think the fact nothing in regard to contents, rags, etc. wasn't found doesn't prove anything either. It was months afterward before they became aware of the chloroform and murderers don't usually leave evidence lying around for months (i.e. deleted computer searches).

Murderers who dont think they will be caught do.Like ICA said she was a good lier she never had to own up before why would this time be any different.