Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

[Bon]

No, but they had the girlfriend who said that he told his wife was already dead weeks before the murder, and what appeared to be a cold and well calculated plan to dispose of the bodies in a manner that suggested he was trying to ensure they'd never be found, and if they were, that the bodies couldn't be connected to him and evidence of antemortem trauma to Laci's body suggesting violence.

Well Casey never reported her own baby missing for 31 days and really she never did. Cindy did!!! That is totally insane behavior. She really believed she was going to be able to pull it off and I think the duct tape was part of her kidnapping theory. And there was no kidnapping, no Nanny.........and George had nothing to do with his precious granddtrs death...no way! Casey was the last person seen with Caylee and Caylee is now dead! Thrown away in a trash bag like garbage......

 

[RANCH]

I'm not sure about the duct tape. I hate to say it but I would have liked to have seen the photos so that I could get a better idea. Hopefully it was clear to the jury.

Well your right, but the descriptions of the tape in relation to the skull makes it hard to think that the tape just floated in there and landed on the skull.IMO.

 

[GeekyGirl]

It's a very horrific murder weapon. But it's functional. I can't understand why someone would kill another person under ANY circumstance.Well maybe self defense. But it happens.Much too often.

I can't understand murder either, but logistically I just think it's a very strange choice if it was indeed intended to kill her. I won't go into the details behind my feeling on this unless you really want me to, because they're pretty disturbing visual images.

 

[Bon]

Oh, I agree with the aggravated manslaughter. But what about the duct tape? I just can't get past that.I can't believe someone would tape a dead little girl after an accidental drowning, making it look like a kidnapping/murder.

Totally agree, makes no sense at all..............
Why duct tape the mouth on a dead body?

 

[Bon]

Well your right, but the descriptions of the tape in relation to the skull makes it hard to think that the tape just floated in there and landed on the skull.IMO.

I totally respect Dr G's description of how the duct tape was placed on Caylees face and mouth................no way did duct tape just happen to float pass and stick on her nose and mouth...nonsense! And the duct tape was linked to the A's house, a rare brand of tape at that....

 

[GeekyGirl]

Well Casey never reported her own baby missing for 31 days and really she never did. Cindy did!!! That is totally insane behavior. She really believed she was going to be able to pull it off and I think the duct tape was part of her kidnapping theory. And there was no kidnapping, no Nanny.........and George had nothing to do with his precious granddtrs death...no way! Casey was the last person seen with Caylee and Caylee is now dead! Thrown away in a trash bag like garbage......

But she also placed her close to home, with evidence that clearly tied the death to someone in the Anthony house, and made no real effort to come up with a logical, cohesive story that pointed LE away from her. Also, there was clear physical evidence that Laci died a violent death. I'm not saying she didn't murder Caylee, just the cases were very different.

 

[RANCH]

I can't understand murder either, but logistically I just think it's a very strange choice if it was indeed intended to kill her. I won't go into the details behind my feeling on this unless you really want me to, because they're pretty disturbing visual images.

I don't think you'll scare me but it's up to you. Just don't break any TOS please.

 

[Bon]

The 31 days doesn't prove murder. It proves aggravated child abuse. It proves she didn't care or that she was scared and wasn't about to take responsibilty for the death of her child.

What kind of sentence could she get if charged with ACA???

 

[princesspjs]

Original question: Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

No way, Jose!

 

[Who_What_When]

What kind of sentence could she get if charged with ACA???

According to this site it's as follows:

30 years for aggravated child abuse
30 years for aggravated manslaughter of a child

http://www.cfnews13.com/casey-anthony-faq?cmpid=caseytwitter

 

[katydid23]

From most of the comments it seems like a lot of people have made up their minds and won't even consider that it could have been an accident. I keep reading that it doesn't matter how she died just that Casey did it, well how do you know that? I don't see any concrete evidence showing me that Casey murdered Caylee. The only thing that I see that even comes close to tying Casey to this is her trunk (the smell and hair), but that only proves that she put her in the trunk. It doesn’t prove that she murdered her. She could have accidentally drowned or died from being left in a hot car. I’m not saying that this is what happened, BUT without knowing how she died how can anyone say she is guilty of first degree murder? This is why the jury will have to believe that chloroform or the duct tape was used as a weapon otherwise it hasn’t been proven BARD. JMO

Ok, so let's say it was an accident. Let's say she found her baby in the pool.

LOTS AND LOTS of questions then arise:

WHY didn't she call for an EMT to try and save her child?
Surely if she is telling the truth about her Dad being there, he would have known how effective oxygen machines and paramedics can be.

Wouldnt they have screamed and made a ruckus if they found Caylee in the pool? Did they instantly decide to be quiet and cover it up?

There are at least 2 houses with a clear view into the Ant's backyard. How did they expect to pick a dead child out of the pool and know they wewre not seen?

Why would some one cover up an accidental death by making it look like a MURDER? Does that make any sense?
And WHY would a detective do so?

Toddlers die in pools every day in Florida. There is no extensive criminal punishment involved. UNLESS it is very negligent, like the child was left alone or something like that.

So assuming it was just an accident, WHY wasn't the mom grieving or sad? She went on a movie date hours after the 'tragic accident' and was flirting and laughing AND she essentially moved into her boyfriends house that VERY NIGHT.

Why assume it was a tragic accident if the mom was so seemingly happy and carefree from within HOURS of the drowning?

And IF It was an accident, then WHY sit in jail for 3 years? Her original excuse for not reporting it was that she did not want her mom to know.

OK, then once her mom DID KNOW, once her mom found out the child was missing, and the cops begged her to admit it was an accident---WHY not do so? [ I have an idea---maybe if she had let them find the body too soon they might have ben able to test for drowning etc. So she had to wait it out,maybe.]

Ok, so if it was an accident, and she decides to cover it up---does it bother anyone that she tried to blame others for kidnapping/murder? Seems rather harsh for a innocent grieving mom whose child accidentally drowned.

I AM SORRY. But it really bothers me because Casey's behavior after the fact was so horrendous. She really should be held accountable for that, imo.

She promised her parents that the child was fine, and would be home for her birthday. SHE HAD THEM PLAN A BDAY PARTY FOR CAYLEE. If that does not tell us just how much she hated her parents, nothing will, imo.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I don't think you'll scare me but it's up to you. Just don't break any TOS please.

Part of the problem is that we don't know where and when this happened, and what the trigger may have been. IMO If you go with the least problematic scenario, it happened in the afternoon, in the garage and Casey is frustrated, angry, snaps and focuses on Caylee as being the thing that's keeping her from getting what she wants. Casey grabs the duct tape. Assuming Casey is intent on murder, she has to cover the airways completely. I would think she would have had to bind Caylee's wrists, bc Casey didn't appear to have any scratch marks on her arms. Then tear and apply three pieces of tape, all while Caylee is likely crying, fighting, kicking, trying to pull at the tape... Casey would have to be holding her close, be face to face with her, seeing the terror in her eyes, fighting to get the tape on, and keep it on, and keep herself from getting hurt or bruised in the process.

It's just extremely violent and sadistic, and we don't have any evidence that Casey has every been that way before. Not saying it's not possible, but why not something easier, like a pillow or plastic bag? (Ugh, just writing that makes me literally nauseous and teary eyed) Sorry if I've upset anyone, not my intention.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Ok, so let's say it was an accident. Let's say she found her baby in the pool.

LOTS AND LOTS of questions then arise:

WHY didn't she call for an EMT to try and save her child?
Surely if she is telling the truth about her Dad being there, he would have known how effective oxygen machines and paramedics can be.

Wouldnt they have screamed and made a ruckus if they found Caylee in the pool? Did they instantly decide to be quiet and cover it up?

There are at least 2 houses with a clear view into the Ant's backyard. How did they expect to pick a dead child out of the pool and know they wewre not seen?

Why would some one cover up an accidental death by making it look like a MURDER? Does that make any sense?
And WHY would a detective do so?

Toddlers die in pools every day in Florida. There is no extensive criminal punishment involved. UNLESS it is very negligent, like the child was left alone or something like that.

So assuming it was just an accident, WHY wasn't the mom grieving or sad? She went on a movie date hours after the 'tragic accident' and was flirting and laughing AND she essentially moved into her boyfriends house that VERY NIGHT.

Why assume it was a tragic accident if the mom was so seemingly happy and carefree from within HOURS of the drowning?

And IF It was an accident, then WHY sit in jail for 3 years? Her original excuse for not reporting it was that she did not want her mom to know.

OK, then once her mom DID KNOW, once her mom found out the child was missing, and the cops begged her to admit it was an accident---WHY not do so? [ I have an idea---maybe if she had let them find the body too soon they might have ben able to test for drowning etc. So she had to wait it out,maybe.]

Ok, so if it was an accident, and she decides to cover it up---does it bother anyone that she tried to blame others for kidnapping/murder? Seems rather harsh for a innocent grieving mom whose child accidentally drowned.

I AM SORRY. But people just saying it was an accident without thinking it through really bothers me because Casey's behavior after the fact was so horrendous. She really should be held accountable for that, imo.

She promised her parents that the child was fine, and would be home for her birthday. SHE HAD THEM PLAN A BDAY PARTY FOR CAYLEE. If that does not tell us just how much she hated her parents, nothing will, imo.

All of that assumes that the "accident" wasn't criminally negligent in some way, which I don't think was the OP's intent. The point she (he?) was trying to make is that without knowing COD it's difficult to say that it was murder BARD, rather than a lesser degree of homicide, like manslaughter. I really can't see any juror buying the DT's theory, but that doesn't mean they'll accept the entire prosecution's theory without question. MOO

 

[minazoe]

you know, I am not feeling one iota of reasonable doubt, I also truly beleive down in my boots that she had broader plans.

she should be locked up for good...she is very dangerous, and has no remorse.

89 searches for chloroform.

 

[Nova24]

That's what I've been saying. I agree that she guilty I just don't know if they proved BARD that she's guilty of first degree murder.

Would you be able to find her guilty of a lesser charge?

 

[katydid23]

Totally Agree. no COD and as to manner of death, Dr G's theory just proved the child was put in bags to conceal. Duct tape could have been to close the bag. That tape could have been anywhere at that recovery scene. Water, wind, animals, or RK could have moved, shifted that tape. So to me, no COD, no MOD. But, I have a feeling she will be convict of Murder due to the 31 days which is sad.

I do not believe the duct tape could have been put on to close the bag. Here is why:
Have you ever seen what happens when duct tape melts onto a garbage bag? Because 4 months of summer heat, beginning in a hot car trunk of over 130 degrees---would absolutely MELT the tape onto the bag material. It would not just 'come off' by itself. AND if it did, [ it wouldn't but] if it did, it would not have any adhesive left to stick on the hair.

Besides that, it was needed to hold the mandible in place. AND NO, the roots could not do that because the mandible falls off within a day or two w/out being held with something.

So the guilty verdict is coming from FACTUAL EVIDENCE, not just her horrid 31 days of behavior. imoo

 

[Danemead]

do you think the defense has created reasonable doubt... What say you?

rsfs.



:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::great::great:

 

[Who_What_When]

Ok, so let's say it was an accident. Let's say she found her baby in the pool.

LOTS AND LOTS of questions then arise:

WHY didn't she call for an EMT to try and save her child?
Surely if she is telling the truth about her Dad being there, he would have known how effective oxygen machines and paramedics can be.

Wouldnt they have screamed and made a ruckus if they found Caylee in the pool? Did they instantly decide to be quiet and cover it up?

There are at least 2 houses with a clear view into the Ant's backyard. How did they expect to pick a dead child out of the pool and know they wewre not seen?

Why would some one cover up an accidental death by making it look like a MURDER? Does that make any sense?
And WHY would a detective do so?

Toddlers die in pools every day in Florida. There is no extensive criminal punishment involved. UNLESS it is very negligent, like the child was left alone or something like that.

So assuming it was just an accident, WHY wasn't the mom grieving or sad? She went on a movie date hours after the 'tragic accident' and was flirting and laughing AND she essentially moved into her boyfriends house that VERY NIGHT.

Why assume it was a tragic accident if the mom was so seemingly happy and carefree from within HOURS of the drowning?

And IF It was an accident, then WHY sit in jail for 3 years? Her original excuse for not reporting it was that she did not want her mom to know.

OK, then once her mom DID KNOW, once her mom found out the child was missing, and the cops begged her to admit it was an accident---WHY not do so? [ I have an idea---maybe if she had let them find the body too soon they might have ben able to test for drowning etc. So she had to wait it out,maybe.]

Ok, so if it was an accident, and she decides to cover it up---does it bother anyone that she tried to blame others for kidnapping/murder? Seems rather harsh for a innocent grieving mom whose child accidentally drowned.

I AM SORRY. But people just saying it was an accident without thinking it through really bothers me because Casey's behavior after the fact was so horrendous. She really should be held accountable for that, imo.

She promised her parents that the child was fine, and would be home for her birthday. SHE HAD THEM PLAN A BDAY PARTY FOR CAYLEE. If that does not tell us just how much she hated her parents, nothing will, imo.

I take offense to you saying I haven't thought this through. I have thought about this case day and night since she was reported missing. Your comments indicate that I said she and her father covered this up. I never said that. I never said it was an accident. I said that there was NO PROOF that she was murdered. Show me the proof. Not the 31 days, not the lying, not the covering it up, SHOW ME that Caylee was murdered. The duct tape? Not proven BARD that it was even on her when she died. Chloroform? No concrete evidence that it was even used on Caylee. Could the duct tape or chloroform been a factor to her death? Maybe. If you believe BARD that this is what Casey used to kill her. I don't. I don't see why she would kill her with duct tape when it would be easier to just smother her with a pillow. Chloroform? Why not just give her benadryl to knock her out? Instead she makes a concoction that takes time and effort to make and use? I don't buy it. It just doesn't fit together. Maybe, and I really hope that it happens, maybe the SA will be able to tie it all together in their final argument.

WHY didn't she call for an EMT to try and save her child?
Because she didn't want to be held responsible.

Wouldnt they have screamed and made a ruckus if they found Caylee in the pool? Did they instantly decide to be quiet and cover it up?
Maybe she did, no one was home so who can say if she screamed or not? Also, who said she died in a pool? She could have been left in a hot car.

There are at least 2 houses with a clear view into the Ant's backyard.
Again, I never said she died in the pool.

Why would some one cover up an accidental death by making it look like a MURDER? Because she didn't want to be held responsible and lying and covering up seems to be what Casey does best.

 

[SarahEcho]

I do think this thread shows that while the defense team failed to prove or much other than how to create tons of billable hours, the state case is still somewhat lacking to make it highly likely that all 12 jurors will vote to convict Murder 1 and the death penalty.

We still haven't come to the closing arguments yet and anything could happen that may have major impact on the jury. I just hope Baez doesn't decide his swan song is to guarantee they flip the switch on his client, just for a grande finale.

 

[Who_What_When]

All of that assumes that the "accident" wasn't criminally negligent in some way, which I don't think was the OP's intent. The point she (he?) was trying to make is that without knowing COD it's difficult to say that it was murder BARD, rather than a lesser degree of homicide, like manslaughter. I really can't see any juror buying the DT's theory, but that doesn't mean they'll accept the entire prosecution's theory without question. MOO

*She* and thanks, that's was my point.