Heart-Shaped Sticker On Tape Over Caylee's Mouth

[trac]

I believe they will test it hopefully there is still something there after 6 plus months. I also think they will match it to ones taken from the house to prove they were from the same bag.

Of course there is - forensics can extract dna from a dinasour bone - also in cold cases they still test clothes sitting in boxes for 20 years to get information

It might be evidence that can't be released until trial

 

[Devon]

I was just wondering what you base the accusations on. I have seen nothing to indicate to me that Cindy purchased a Pooh blanket after this all happened. I haven't seen any evidence to show that she knew a blanket was missing either. Can you show me this evidence?

Caylee was wearing white shorts in the video, yes. However the shorts found were white with vertical stripes. I have seen no evidence showing that George lied about seeing Casey and Caylee. Can you show me this evidence?

The paver that I saw was so blurred that the spot could have been a splat of red paint for all we know. Does the fact that I helped make a grandchilds school poster last night and drew red hearts on it, make me suspect? I hardly think that the use of red hearts are going to sway a jury that Casey killed this child and placed a red heart on the duct tape. Can you show me evidence to the contrary?

Don't bother answering, because there is no evidence to show this, is true.

This is supposed to be a place where facts are put together and fact based theories drawn. I have seen little of that in here. What I do see is a lot of closed minds. An open mind is what true sleuthers need. It is our greatest tool. I have seen a lot of outright hatred too. I don't want to convict Casey on half of the story. I want the whole story before I make judgements. If Casey didn't do this, there is a killer out there. I want the responsible party to be found and convicted. How very sad and pathetic have we become if we let the media decide who is guilty and who isn't.....

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[mes1955]

No, Mothers who kill their kids, ala Patsy Ramsey use little hearts, not a kidnapper.:snooty:

LinasK...Are you aware that the Ramseys, including Patsy, were cleared by DNA evidence? As a "Websleuth", I hope you don't still blame Patsy for killing her daughter, because this information was made public several months ago. It's a shame what was done to her, and I would hope it would serve as a lesson to those who make public character assassinations against people who have not been charged with a crime.

Too bad she's not alive to decide whether she would or wouldn't accept all the apologies due to her.

 

[seagull65]

Obviously I'm in the minority, but the more detail that comes out about the disposal of the body, the more it looks like a different perp to me, rather than KCA. If KC were the perpetrator I can't see any way that she would dispose of the body with the duct tape still on, she would remove the tape to lessen the appearance of cruelty/keep the accident option open, and anyway, there's no way I see her depositing the body right there next to the street around the corner from her home. To me, it really looks like a perpetrator who either wanted the body to be found and the murder connected to KCA, or who didn't care if the body was found. I think KC would do everything possible to stay out of prison, she would definitely put the body anywhere else, Orlando is full of woods/foliage off the side of roads and ponds and lakes all over town. She could easily dispose of the body in a million places where it might never be found. The reports of the heart sticker over the taped mouth, likewise, to me it seems like a mocking kind of display, like it was meant to be seen, it seems like maybe a pedophile or like someone committing the crime as a retribution or anger crime against KCA or someone in her family. The heart symbol could even be a calling card of some kind. My opinion only
I can't rule KCA out, but I'm still not totally convinced. (And anyone who could get hold of Caylee could get hold of other items that might be along with her.)

 

[Devon]

I do too! Wasn't KC spotted the night of June 15th pacing the parking lot at a hotel? I think KC put the tape on Caylee's mouth, because she couldn't stand to hear her cry for CA and then dumped her in the trunk. I can picture her pacing the parking lot while Caylee slowly suffocated! :furious:

Bolded by me

Do you have a link to this witness testimony please, because as far as I can remember, this story came from LP, and I doubt he was at this parking lot on the date in question.

 

[ThoughtElf]

IIRC, in a jail visit with someone Casey says something along the line of "that little girl is my heart."

Does anyone else remember this??

I DO!!!! Great memory. Now, I can't recall which interview it was in.

 

[Wudge]

I agree the heart alone tells us little about the circumstances under which death occurred. It does not rule out an accident, nor does it prove or even indicate premeditation. I do think we can dismiss the staged kidnapping theory, however.

What I don't see is how the heart and blanket could be viewed as exculpatory, as Wudge indicated. So, Wudge, would you explain that for us, please?

You provided the correct answer when you stated that the heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket do not even indicate premeditation (much less prove), which requires prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt four specific elements: intent (wilful), planning, deliberation and malice aforethought.

The evidence here works against premeditation, not for it. Hence, the heart and Winnie the Pooh represents exculpatory evidence that greatly favors the defense, not inculpatory evidence.

HTH

 

[trac]

Not EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE either hard or circumstancial will show PREMEDITATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!- you keep harping on every single piece of evidence showing premeditation - a GOOD lawyer, either defense or prosecution would put all the evidence together, TO TELL A STORY

A good lawyer IS NOT narrow minded

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

This is supposed to be a place where facts are put together and fact based theories drawn. I have seen little of that in here. What I do see is a lot of closed minds. An open mind is what true sleuthers need. It is our greatest tool. I have seen a lot of outright hatred too. I don't want to convict Casey on half of the story. I want the whole story before I make judgements. If Casey didn't do this, there is a killer out there. I want the responsible party to be found and convicted. How very sad and pathetic have we become if we let the media decide who is guilty and who isn't.....

Hall of fame.

(Applause ... take a bow Gracie.)

 

[radio]

Obviously I'm in the minority, but the more detail that comes out about the disposal of the body, the more it looks like a different perp to me, rather than KCA. If KC were the perpetrator I can't see any way that she would dispose of the body with the duct tape still on, she would remove the tape to lessen the appearance of cruelty/keep the accident option open, and anyway, there's no way I see her depositing the body right there next to the street around the corner from her home. To me, it really looks like a perpetrator who either wanted the body to be found and the murder connected to KCA, or who didn't care if the body was found. I think KC would do everything possible to stay out of prison, she would definitely put the body anywhere else, Orlando is full of woods/foliage off the side of roads and ponds and lakes all over town. She could easily dispose of the body in a million places where it might never be found. The reports of the heart sticker over the taped mouth, likewise, to me it seems like a mocking kind of display, like it was meant to be seen, it seems like maybe a pedophile or like someone committing the crime as a retribution or anger crime against KCA or someone in her family. The heart symbol could even be a calling card of some kind. My opinion only
I can't rule KCA out, but I'm still not totally convinced. (And anyone who could get hold of Caylee could get hold of other items that might be along with her.)

Even though it took LE .. well, not LE, but the meter reader many months to find the body ... once found - it was in a way to obvious place. I think you have the direction this is going to go seagull.

 

[SuziQ]

Hall of fame.

(Applause ... take a bow Gracie.)

Ok, who is this responsible party Gracie mentions? I've seen quite a few posts the last couple of days stating that too many of us are jumping to conclusions way too fast. So please humor me. If not Casey then who? I mean really, instead of making digs, state WHO the responsible party is. By god, someone killed that baby. Are you all waiting for that one magical piece of evidence to pop up this close to trial to show Casey didn't do this? The only place I've seen last minute courtroom bombshells have been on Perry Mason.

 

[LinasK]

LinasK...Are you aware that the Ramseys, including Patsy, were cleared by DNA evidence? As a "Websleuth", I hope you don't still blame Patsy for killing her daughter, because this information was made public several months ago. It's a shame what was done to her, and I would hope it would serve as a lesson to those who make public character assassinations against people who have not been charged with a crime.

Too bad she's not alive to decide whether she would or wouldn't accept all the apologies due to her.

Go read the JBR Forum here, They were not "cleared", that was D.A. Mary Lacy's parting gift to them before she left office, the case has not been closed!

 

[reeseeva]

Is This The Heart Shaped Sticker Thread????

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~skort/page40balloon.htm

 

[Devon]

There is a difference between using circumstantial evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and a medical examiner saying I have scientific proof that she died from a certain cause. Without soft tissue the medical examiners ability to determine a cause of death was greatly limited.

Agreed. But how is the prosecution going to prove that Caylee died as the result of murder or aggravated child abuse, rather than as the result of an accident? If they're going with the 'death by chloroform' storyline, which it looks like, are they going to try to weave the duct tape evidence into that, because you don't need to tape a small child's mouth shut to knock them out with chloroform. And what about the Zanex (sp) theme, or the 'hints' about child medications? Will they just leave that out of their storyline, because I will bet that the defense will question how they selected one theory over another. The defense may also make reference to the evidence about the pool (ladder/open gate) and ask why that has been discounted. It just seems to me that on the evidence we have seen so far, the prosecution appears to be still shooting off in several different directions.

 

[Balthazar]

We don't have enough evidence yet to know exactly what happened, but I do know duct tape is used in sexually molesting children. The heart on duct tape over the mouth is highly reminiscent of the pedophile serial killer in John Saul's novel "Perfect Nightmare" which was out in paperback last spring - I found it in the new section of books at my grocery store and it was obviously just put out at that time, although it was originally published hardback in 2006.

 

[Wudge]

Ok, who is this responsible party Gracie mentions? I've seen quite a few posts the last couple of days stating that too many of us are jumping to conclusions way too fast. So please humor me. If not Casey then who? I mean really, instead of making digs, state WHO the responsible party is. By god, someone killed that baby. Are you all waiting for that one magical piece of evidence to pop up this close to trial to show Casey didn't do this? The only place I've seen last minute courtroom bombshells have been on Perry Mason.

How it works is that before you conclude a defendant is guilty of a specific charge, you need to have clear and unyielding evidence that supports the charge. If that evidence does not exist, there's no requirement that you then establish who did it.

(I knew Perry, but such courtroom triumphs are very rare.)

 

[Talison]

You provided the correct answer when you stated that the heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket do not even indicate premeditation (much less prove), which requires prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt four specific elements: intent (wilful), planning, deliberation and malice aforethought.

The evidence here works against premeditation, not for it. Hence, the heart and Winnie the Pooh represents exculpatory evidence that greatly favors the defense, not inculpatory evidence.

HTH

(Bolding by me)

You've been repeating that over and over since this morning, and yet you still won't explain why you think that. It goes against all logic and reason to think a heart sticker and a Winnie the Pooh blanket somehow make premeditated murder go away, so I wish you would explain why you think they do. I don't see how the blanket is either inculpatory OR exculpatory - it may have just been what was handy for whatever its intended purpose was. The fact that it has Winnie the Pooh on it could mean absolutely nothing either way. And the heart sticker indicates presence of mind rather than panic, does it not? I see the heart sticker as possibly inculpatory because it could speak to Casey's state of mind at the time of Caylee's death (when combined with other evidence), and it could possibly be tied to other heart iconography used by Casey around the same time. Not to mention that it was on DUCT TAPE that was over Caylee's mouth, a fact which you seem to conveniently keep ignoring. What specifically about the heart sticker do you see as exculpatory?

Your position just doesn't make sense, and you've repeatedly ignored requests to explain it... but I'll ask again, can you please explain why you think a heart sticker and Winnie the Pooh are somehow exculpatory? And please don't just repeat the same thing you've said several times already about the prosecution being required to prove malice aforethought, etc. That clearly does not answer the question.

 

[STEADFAST]

You provided the correct answer when you stated that the heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket do not even indicate premeditation (much less prove), which requires prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt four specific elements: intent (wilful), planning, deliberation and malice aforethought.

The evidence here works against premeditation, not for it. Hence, the heart and Winnie the Pooh represents exculpatory evidence that greatly favors the defense, not inculpatory evidence.

HTH

I'm still waiting for an answer about exactly how "the evidence here works against premeditation." I can see how it might not make a case for premeditation or it might be considered not relevant to premeditation, but I don't see how it could make a case against premeditation. (And not making a case for premeditation is not the same at all as making a case against premeditation, since there's no reason it has to be one or the other.)

I don't think anyone can write out a scenario or a theory that outlines how this evidence will make it almost "impossible" for the prosecutor to argue premeditation or how the defence could use it to its advantage.

 

[JWG]

I have to say, I agree with Wudge. The very first word that popped into my mind when I heard of the heart-shaped sticker was regret. The 22-year old who wrote variations of hers and AL's name on notebook paper stuck a heart sticker on Caylee's duct tape as her way of saying she loved her. I am going to get smacked around for saying that, I know, but it was my gut reaction.

Yes, I thought it bizarre, but KC is bizarre.

 

[Meagain]

I'm sure this was already proposed. I can't read 19 pages....

I wonder if the sticker was a message. To Cindy perhaps. (the spiteful biatch kicking in). Or Cindy bought the stickers. Maybe a message/statement.