Heart-Shaped Sticker On Tape Over Caylee's Mouth

[SuziQ]

How it works is that before you conclude a defendant is guilty of a specific charge, you need to have clear and unyielding evidence that supports the charge. If that evidence does not exist, there's no requirement that you then establish who did it.

(I knew Perry, but such courtroom triumphs are very rare.)

This is not a courtroom. And you knew a fictional character?

 

[Wudge]

Your post #210 is just the same thing you've repeated several times, about how prosecutors have to prove four things, etc. and then your statement about how the heart and Winne the Pooh are exculpatory, not inculpatory. I don't see anything there about why you believe them to be exculpatory.

As I've said elsewhere, the heart and Winnie the Pooh work hard against malice aforethought, not for it. That why it's exculpatory instead of inculpatory.

It would be entirely reasonable to think that a touching heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket would be associated with an unintended death.

 

[Indigo]

The duct tape had a heart sticker on it but also a heart sticker was found at the crime scene on the ground- RIGHT? Did I hear this correctly on NG? If thats the case, that would tell me she killed her at the crime scene and had the stickers with her and dropped one- If she killed her at home and placed the sticker on the tape, she'd have no reason to carry any stickers with her-

The sticker had come off of the tape, but the (perfectly heart shaped) residue remained. The sticker which had been on the tape was found at the scene.

 

[Angelfire]

We may never really know the "why" of the heart shaped sticker attached to the duct tape...we can try to imagine a reason...but we probably will never find the truth.

 

[Wudge]

And you knew a fictional character?

Perry Mason came alive, lived and died in the mind of a real person.

HTH

 

[MarleneM]

After I asked the question, I walked away from the computer for awhile. I was so sickened by the revelation of the heart sticker that I couldn't fathom how it could be used to disprove guilt. I took a short walk in the cold and put on my lawyer hat. (No, I'm not a lawyer, but I think like one.)

It could be argued that attaching the sticker shows lack of planning and deliberation. Rather, it's a rash and reckless act. As for malice aforethought, the general public has a hard time accepting that a mother could kill her child. Just look at the number of doubters on this board. Fillicide and infanticide are such unnatural acts, we can't wrap our heads around it. To convince a jury, the prosecutors will attempt to portray a vile selfish woman with deep
resentment and hatred for her child.

But the sticker shows love, not to mention all the happy photos.

The prosecution will have to show that she both loved and hated Caylee, which will confuse the jury. So, I agree. It is a potential obstacle. I don't like it, but I agree.

I don't see it that way at all because I'm not ignoring the fact that the heart shape sticker is attached on top of Duct Tape. I try to envision KC (or anyone) showing "love" by ignoring to remove the duct tape before disposing of Caylee's abused body. I fail to see any "love" in decorating the duct tape. I see the sticker as a mockery of the love that was given to Caylee by CA & GA. I see the sticker as a "kiss of death" or "good riddance" by someone who was getting off on enacting their hatred and/or jealousy of Caylee.

Being double-bagged and tossed into the woods like common trash shows no respect or love for Caylee in my perception of the evidence. The "heart-on-top" strikes me more as the "cherry-on-top" to a very hateful person.

 

[JBean]

Isnipped

h. Aggravated child abuse,
...

Using chloroform on a child, duct taping the child's mouth shut, and then leaving the child alone, as you describe above, will easily satisfy the elements of aggravated child abuse, which can be used to obtain the first degree murder convicition for her resulting death.

Of course it will, but they have to prove it and that is the heart of the matter.

 

[bessie]

Your post #210 is just the same thing you've repeated several times, about how prosecutors have to prove four things, etc. and then your statement about how the heart and Winne the Pooh are exculpatory, not inculpatory. I don't see anything there about why you believe them to be exculpatory.

I think he wanted us to figure it out for ourselves. Like a teacher.

 

[charo]

thank you to both who clarified about the heart sticker- I couldnt listen to all of NG tonight- just bits and pieces

 

[txsvicki]

Putting the sticker on top of the duct tape that was across the skull and mouth shows premeditation to me. A person would have to duct tape the mouth around the head first. Not just a piece of tape over the mouth, but wrapped all the way around the head for no reason at all. If you're dead you don't need duct tape to keep quiet. Then a person would have to get the big idea to put a sticker on the mouth area, go find the stickers, peel it off, etc. Who the heck would do something like that if they just accidentally killed a child. Casey didn't even have a big window of time to do all this if George told the truth about seeing the girls that afternoon. Casey could also have used the sticker to hold something else in place or show her where to drip the chloroform. It's probably something besides a sentimental sorry to have killed you thing. I just wonder if something was placed over the eyes and it may have come off.

 

[natsound]

The prosecution will have to show that she both loved and hated Caylee, which will confuse the jury. So, I agree. It is a potential obstacle. I don't like it, but I agree.

snipped

The prosecution will have to show that she both loved and hated Caylee because of a heart shaped sticker? So in other words, the jury will hear and see all of the state's evidence, then get to the sticker and suddenly think "Oh, hold on now. This is a mother who loved her child! She can't be convicted!"

I don't see the sticker as an obstacle. I see it as KC adding insult to injury.

 

[desertmom]

Sorry if this was posted earlier...I haven't had time to go through this whole thread. I wonder if KC had a thing for red hearts. Remember how she would put red hearts on some of the photos she uploaded? Interesting coincidence.

 

[Talison]

As I've said elsewhere, the heart and Winnie the Pooh work hard against malice aforethought, not for it. That why it's exculpatory instead of inculpatory.

It would be entirely reasonable to think that a touching heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket would be associated with an unintended death.

(Bolding by me)

Okay, I can accept that. Not that I necessarily agree, but I can see your reasoning there.

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

I don't see anything there about why you believe them to be exculpatory.

Because they do not support malice. Instead, they work against it.

 

[SuziQ]

Very insightful and I agree, this could be the symbolism. What I believe the heart on the duct tape does show, though is that Casey definitely does NOT have a heart. MOO :furious:

ITA. When a sociopath extends a loving gesture it many times comes off weird because they can't relate to that emotion. Which, IMO Casey did with the sticker. In her crippled emotional mind she thought it was a loving gesture, but it merely came off macabre and bizarre.

 

[natsound]

I don't see it that way at all because I'm not ignoring the fact that the heart shape sticker is attached on top of Duct Tape. I try to envision KC (or anyone) showing "love" by ignoring to remove the duct tape before disposing of Caylee's abused body. I fail to see any "love" in decorating the duct tape. I see the sticker as a mockery of the love that was given to Caylee by CA & GA. I see the sticker as a "kiss of death" or "good riddance" by someone who was getting off on enacting their hatred and/or jealousy of Caylee.

Being double-bagged and tossed into the woods like common trash shows no respect or love for Caylee in my perception of the evidence. The "heart-on-top" strikes me more as the "cherry-on-top" to a very hateful person.

Very well put!

 

[Themis]

How it works is that before you conclude a defendant is guilty of a specific charge, you need to have clear and unyielding evidence that supports the charge. If that evidence does not exist, there's no requirement that you then establish who did it.

(I knew Perry, but such courtroom triumphs are very rare.)

Do you have a citation for that legal standard of "clear and unyielding evidence?" :waitasec:I've never seen that legal standard in a statute or jury instructions. Just wondering where you got it.

 

[Wudge]

(Bolding by me)

Okay, I can accept that. Not that I necessarily agree, but I can see your reasoning there.

(tip of my hat)

As long as the defense offers a reasonable explanation, by law, jurors must accept it. This is true even if the prosecution offers a more reasonable explanation.

 

[Indigo]

As I've said elsewhere, the heart and Winnie the Pooh work hard against malice aforethought, not for it. That why it's exculpatory instead of inculpatory.

It would be entirely reasonable to think that a touching heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket would be associated with an unintended death.

I think this only works if it was "touching" duct tape. Somehow I don't see it that way.

Caylee had become like so many uploaded photos. Manipulated, decorated...put the mark of Casey on it. Done and done.

 

[JWG]

I have to say, I agree with Wudge. The very first word that popped into my mind when I heard of the heart-shaped sticker was regret. The 22-year old who wrote variations of hers and AL's name on notebook paper stuck a heart sticker on Caylee's duct tape as her way of saying she loved her. I am going to get smacked around for saying that, I know, but it was my gut reaction.

Yes, I thought it bizarre, but KC is bizarre.

Now that I've said the above, I think KC did leave the prosecution some material to work with. Let's start with but a very small sampling of Photobucket images she uploaded before and after June 16: