Heart-Shaped Sticker On Tape Over Caylee's Mouth

[impatientredhead]

Don't we have a thread to discuss the legal aspects of this case or do we need to start another thread to discuss the issue of the sticker and duct tape without the legal analysis?

This one is pretty long, might be time for fresh start

 

[Devon]

That's the rub for the defense. The little bones may be somewhat lacking to prove murder, but they certainly don't prove accident either...especially thrown away like they were in a garbage bag.

But the defense does not have to prove anything - they can sit there and say diddly squat if they wish. It's the prosecution that has the burden of proving the charge of murder one.

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

Jurors are free to consider the evidence outside the storylines told by the defense and prosecutors. They often do just that.

I don't think it would turn out positively for the defense if the jurors use their imaginations as to what happened and not the theories proposed by prosecution/defense.

 

[AnnaMouse]

A little o/t:
I had a sticker book as a kid, loved to collect animals, unicorns, rainbows, all the typical girl stuff.

Being a teacher and mom, I always had stickers in my home also. But a small heart-shaped sticker reminds me of the Heartguard (heart-worm medicine for my dog) stickers. The Anthonys have 2 dogs and in Florida, you absolutely have to give them heartworm medicine since mosquitoes are here year-round. In the packet with the medicine are small red heart stickers that you place on your calendar so you remember when to give the medication each month. They have no writing on them, just a small red heart.

I would bet money that Anthonys would have those stickers with their dog's medication.

 

[yolorado]

Jurors can only consider the evidence presented at trial.

It will be difficult to infer an accident at trial because there isn't really any evidence of one to present at trial. KC is on tape denying it. Her actions since Day 1 and Day 31 don't indicate it, and there's not really anything to indicate that's what happened, least of all the little discarded bones of Caylee Marie Anthony. Yet, at this point with this defendant, the defense realistically would have to provide some if they wanted the jury to go there. If she changes her story now from Zanny to Accidenty, her chances of being believed aren't good.

 

[LCoastMom]

I agree, Ziggy. This is a very personal symbol.

Natsound, I am very curious as to what this means - that's what makes cases like this so fascinating to me - trying to understand why

The heart sticker screams that this was personal. A stranger would not do that, but a mother would. A last symbol of love, whether YOU get that or not doesn't matter - it's a gesture of someone close to the child.

It fits with Casey as she is very immature as shown by her doodling her name as if she were married to Tony.

You provided the correct answer when you stated that the heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket do not even indicate premeditation (much less prove) which requires prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt four specific elements: intent (wilful), planning, deliberation and malice aforethought.

The evidence here works against premeditation, not for it. Hence, the heart and Winnie the Pooh represents exculpatory evidence that greatly favors the defense, not inculpatory evidence.

HTH

LE went back to the house with a warrant looking for evidence of chloroform and decongestant. If they found these drugs 6 mos after the fact, it will prove just how smart KC thought she was, the ultimate "up yours" cause she never thought LE would know enough to look for it.

Wudge you keep saying this about the evidence being exculpatory. But if KC was medicating Caylee to make her sleep, either through baby decongestants or illegal narcotics. Using medications for something other than they were intended is a premeditated, illegal act. Giving drugs to a person, other than who they prescribed is an illegal act. If KC went to the store and purchased them or if she went to C & G's medicine cabinet, took out any drug not prescribed for or intended for use in a child, again shows intent, planning, deliberation and malice.

What exactly is so exculpatory about grabbing whatever blanket is handy to place under a 2 y o before medicating it? No one wants that mess on the bed or the sofa. Most medications don't taste great to a 2 y o. It can end up all over just by the baby letting it drool out of their mouth. Not to mention the very real chance the medications could make the baby vomit. So you place a blanket or a towel to contain the mess, once the deed is done everything gets wrapped in the blanket and shoved in a bag. Including the baby. Nice and neat, and premeditated.

It makes no more difference to me that KC used a Pooh blanket,`than if she had wrapped her in satin and silk. Caylee was dead after being fed medication that didn't belong to her and was never intended for use in a 2 y o. Her little face was covered in duct tape from one side to the other covering her mouth, obviously not meant to revive her or extend her life. What other purpose could there be other than to silence her forever?

But KC isn't done yet, she has one more task before saying good bye forever, she takes a sticker of a red heart and places it on the tape that was covering Caylee's mouth. What was the meaning of this macabre act? Was it a sinister good bye kiss? A tender touch by a loving mother? It doesn't matter what it means. This mother had just murdered her precious baby, stuffed her lifeless body in a laundry bag and a plastic bag. She put more tape on the plastic bag, then stashed it in the trunk of her car. Within a couple days, the heat and humidity of FL in June took it's toll. The odor from the decomp was unbearable, with no other manageable dump spot on the horizon, KC remembers that spot right down the street, hops in her car and zips down to Suburban Dr, pulls her car over to the side of the road and quickly tosses Caylee towards the pool of water. Done and done.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I have often thought the Chloroform wasn't used on Caylee, but to clean the trunk instead. (Hopefully, forensics will answer that question.) That being said, I can see where you are going with the whole staged theory. I think there are things which poke holes in that theory tho.

 

[eddeva]

Jurors can only consider the evidence presented at trial.

thank you. i've been looking for a straight answer to that for 2 weeks

 

[sarah7855]

Being a teacher and mom, I always had stickers in my home also. But a small heart-shaped sticker reminds me of the Heartguard (heart-worm medicine for my dog) stickers. The Anthonys have 2 dogs and in Florida, you absolutely have to give them heartworm medicine since mosquitoes are here year-round. In the packet with the medicine are small red heart stickers that you place on your calendar so you remember when to give the medication each month. They have no writing on them, just a small red heart.

I would bet money that Anthonys would have those stickers with their dog's medication.

Ohhhh, my goodness. Wonderful point!

 

[Pondering Mind]

Being a teacher and mom, I always had stickers in my home also. But a small heart-shaped sticker reminds me of the Heartguard (heart-worm medicine for my dog) stickers. The Anthonys have 2 dogs and in Florida, you absolutely have to give them heartworm medicine since mosquitoes are here year-round. In the packet with the medicine are small red heart stickers that you place on your calendar so you remember when to give the medication each month. They have no writing on them, just a small red heart.

I would bet money that Anthonys would have those stickers with their dog's medication.

Oooh...great point! I hadn't thought about the Heartguard stickers. Very possible IMO.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

SS, why not keep this thread for it's intended purpose, start a legal 'discussion of charges & burden of proof' thread and see if the discussion migrates appropriately?

I thought we already had a legal discussion thread. I will see if I can find it and bump it up.

Maybe the mods will start another thread for this subject since it is already so long here (Thanks, Red!) and we can keep it on track.

 

[darlin gal]

Being a teacher and mom, I always had stickers in my home also. But a small heart-shaped sticker reminds me of the Heartguard (heart-worm medicine for my dog) stickers. The Anthonys have 2 dogs and in Florida, you absolutely have to give them heartworm medicine since mosquitoes are here year-round. In the packet with the medicine are small red heart stickers that you place on your calendar so you remember when to give the medication each month. They have no writing on them, just a small red heart.

I would bet money that Anthonys would have those stickers with their dog's medication.

Wonder if Casey tanned? They have bowlful of tanning hearts at my tanning salon. She might have grabbed a couple extra at a visit. She might have had some in her car or lying around.

 

[Devon]

Don't we have a thread to discuss the legal aspects of this case or do we need to start another thread to discuss the issue of the sticker and duct tape without the legal analysis?

IMO it would be pointless to discuss this evidence (or any other) in isolation, because it's the relevance to the case that is the issue, i.e. what does it tell us about the crime? Since there are many posts here that suggest that this evidence shows premeditation, malice, proof of abuse, KC's involvement etc., I don't see how posts that attempt to question and debate these opinions are any less 'on topic'. Or does the objection stem from the fact that those opinions are challenged? I note there has been a suggestion (not from you) that some posters might feel more at home on a Fox News blog, which is alleged to be a pro-defense arena. Is it okay to post about how this evidence impacts on the legal aspects of the case as long as it's pro-prosecution then, but not otherwise?

 

[marla]

Every since I heard of the Heart shaped sticker on the duct tape, it has creep me out. Kinda like Silence of the Lambs.

I've been having the same creepy thoughts ..

 

[LCoastMom]

I would have to agree with you. Casey is all about convenience even with where she dumped the body. Care doesn't appear to be a factor with her. The toy or toys were probably laying on the blanket with her.

The stickers were probably within arm's reach, but it doesn't explain to me when or where she got the duct tape. Did she have to go to the kitchen or the garage? Did she keep the duct tape in her room for crafts or something else (people do make things out of duct tape)?

If the clothes she was wearing or they found in the bag with her were not pajamas, does it mean the murder took place before bedtime on the 15th or during the day on the 16th? The other things indicate she was in her room or in the home...but with the convenience factor...she would be in or near her bed at the time. It is inconsistent with the clothing, imo. I am anxious to hear from Cindy what she was wearing to bed the night of the 15th (when she supposedly tucked them in) and in the hours after leaving the nursing center.

If this was Amy's roll of tape it probably came back to the A's house after the ABC party and KC stashed it right there in her bedroom. Which once again goes to premeditation. The tape was removed from Amy's purse and never seen again, Amy was aware that KC had the purse and sent KC a message on FaceBook saying:

“You lost my duct tape. I was excited to have so much left. That’s why (sic) I get for giving you my purse.”
The date it appeared to be posted, May 26, was around the same time as a “no clothes party” Casey attended. She had wrapped herself in a flag and, according to her, nothing else.

http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/...osting-suggests-casey-took-friends-duct-tape/

 

[tfrohning]

If this was Amy's roll of tape it probably came back to the A's house after the ABC party and KC stashed it right there in her bedroom. Which once again goes to premeditation. The tape was removed from Amy's purse and never seen again, Amy was aware that KC had the purse and sent KC a message on FaceBook saying:

“You lost my duct tape. I was excited to have so much left. That’s why (sic) I get for giving you my purse.”
The date it appeared to be posted, May 26, was around the same time as a “no clothes party” Casey attended. She had wrapped herself in a flag and, according to her, nothing else.

http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/...osting-suggests-casey-took-friends-duct-tape/

I was thinking about that about duct tape, but could not remmeber where I read it, thanks, Now i won't spend hours looking it up. I always though that she borrow the tape to hold up the Flag:clap:

 

[tfrohning]

I wonder if the nursing home give out stickers to the little kids that visit??

 

[Ames]

And I am 100% sure that the picture of Caylee surrounded by many Mr. PotatoHead figures makes me especially sorrowful.

Just curious...is there any special meaning behind your "hat" (screen name)?

 

[Ames]

Exactly. The defense can raise reasonable doubt that someone else could have commited this crime. But I'm sure the jury, like most of here, is gonna want to know.....WHO did this then? If the defense can't show that, then the jury isn't going to by it.

It was not only KC's car, that the "death smell" was in, but she is the one that told a friend, (was it Amy?) that she had gotten rid of the smell (which she claimed was two dead squirrels). IMO...she got rid of the "smell", by dumping little Caylee's body. At first, she says that the "nanny" met her at the apartments where little Caylee was dropped off, and then after being told that the surveilance tape from that day, didn't show Caylee or KC, she changed her story to the Nanny and her sister meeting them at the park, and taking off with Caylee. At no time has she ever mentioned the nanny using her car. So, if she tries to pull..."Zanny used my car that day", it won't fly.

 

[Indigo]

I posted back a few, that I try to run this past in my head. You are right, about the things being in arms reach. I agree, but the duct tape and chloroform arn't just laying around. And we are pretty sure this happened in the house, maybe Caylee's room. So what if KC had the duct tape in the garage, and the chloroform hidden in a jar in the garage or her room. That makes this even more deliberate. She has to make several trips to get what she needs to kill Caylee, then maybe after her rages subsides, she puts the sticker on her and just throws things into a bag to make it look as if there were things the Nanny would have. Some things have to be gone if you are taking your child to leave with the Nanny. So CA would think the blanket was one of the things Zanny may have at her place. Just a guess.

(Bold mine) Great point, Bern. If chloroform was involved, then the process of making the chloroform and the act of carrying it out had to involve a lot of steps and planning-- IMO,including duct tape. Then you have all of the steps Casey took afterward. Wrap the body in a blanket, laundry bag, trash bag. Heart sticker comes in there somewhere. Add to her daily activity: phone calls, computer activity and THEN out to the Blockbuster with Tony! Happy day. Party from Day One

JMO--this was no accident. For the sake of demonstrating the timing issues involved, I would like (for lack of a better word) to see this acted out. I think it would be disturbing, but convincing.