Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #5 ***ARRESTS***

[4MYGUYS]

Oceanblueeyes, Wow thanks for the info! So...... Kroger is not just tracking my purchases to send me my customer appreciation coupons! Very useful info for a number of reasons.
I wonder if Holly wasn't threatened, after cutting her to scare her, 'to just come along quietly or anyone who might show up' (I am assuming he guessed from watching the house, parents were gone, brother was possibly home), would be shot. Thus she simply cooperated and walked quietly into the woods.

 

[Plumeria5]

New here on this thread, bunny trailed from the missing girl in TX, Christina Morris... so I apologize if my question has already been discussed and I'm getting to know this case and the guys accused, trying to figure it out but, what I dont get is... this guy who Clint thought was Drew... it seemed like they were having a conversation...did he know Holly... did he NOT know her brother was also in the house... how could he be so brazen as to just come up to a house like that... the guy must of known there would be guns in the house... its very obvious if Clint was awake and coherent he could of just shot the guy on the spot... right? Seems like there were so many chances taken...even him just walking away with her and her not putting up a fight. She knew her brother was home... most women know that if you go to a second location your dead. Most women know its better to suffer violence right where you are rather than go off with someone as your chances of being found are better, quicker. Knife or no knife..her brother was home, she could of screamed....guns in the house etc...I don't understand why she would of just gone off with him without a fight knowing Clint was in the house. And if she screamed prior to this... and it didn't wake up Clint but was blood curtling enough, loud enough and terrifying enough for the neighbor to call the mom... so something made Holly scream and then not scream anymore?
And these guys that they caught... are you guys on here pretty confident they have the right people?
Like I said, I am new to this thread and I know its annoying when someone gets on after this amount of time with newbie questions already answered and discussed over and over... I'm on a thread just going on since June of this year and a newbie gets on and ask these questions already totally gone over... but most of us don't have time to go back and read hundreds of threads... so if someone can fill me in on that part... regarding why you guys feel she didn't put up a fight when her brother was home and guns were in the house? And was Clint so still tired he didn't really look close enough but just assumed this scraggly guy was one of his friends and her boyfriend... just too tired to really look, just saw what he thought he saw without really seeing?

Welcome! I will try to answer your questions and others can correct me if I'm wrong. Since it is a small town, I think they knew of ZA and the family, (they seem to have a reputation) but didn't really socialize with him as far as I know. Holly screamed once. I think she probably was walking out to her car, he jumped out and her natural reaction was to scream. But, he must have had a knife as there was a pool of blood so if he cut her, she was probably so scared she didn't scream again. Yes, there was some conversation and I have seen self defense classes where victims have tried to talk their captors out of it or try to befriend them in hopes they won't be killed. I believe Clint's truck was in the closed garage, not the carport, so hers may have been the only vehicle visible and it was said that Clint wasn't suppose to be home that morning but schedules changed and so he was, but sleeping. His mom told Clint to shoot the guy but I think Clint was still thinking it was Drew and so was confused why his mom was saying that. Plus, he had just gotten up so I don't think he was awake enough to know what was really going on.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The thing about the video...I think they're really kicking themselves for acting so quickly on that. There are so many red flags on that one. If there was a video, they would've found it already. If there was a link between the Pearcy brothers and the two other suspects, they would've found it already. I was especially suspicious when Mark Pearcy "failed to be available" for his hearing. This is a big case, they could've gotten him there if they wanted. I think they hadn't found the video yet, were terrified that the judge would dismiss the charges, so were doing this to force a continuance.

Based on everything, I don't think they have any physical evidence yet. The fact that her parents thought she was deceased...I'm certain Holly's parents accepted her death a long time ago, well before there was a suspect. It's very unlikely that a missing person will turn up alive, and especially after we know there was a violent altercation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're innocent. But there are many criminal cases which revolve solely around snitch testimony and zero physical evidence. This has all the hallmarks of one of them.

How do we know though that the TBI has not found the link between the Pearceys and the perpetrators? We really have no clue what the TBI has discovered. Who is kicking themselves? The TBI? The DA? I don't get that impression at all. Have they voiced reservations about arresting these two? They have had ample time to drop all charges but it sure hasn't happened and it isn't going to happen either, imo.

As far as finding it the witness did not come forth until May of this year. And then they had to go through the process of getting a hearing with the Judge to rule on probable cause so it could be forward to the GJ for an indictment which happened maybe a month or so back?

From what I have read it takes time (many months) to get into a phone like he has to do a complete forensic analysis. And they got the SW for his phone shortly before or right after he was arrested. Iirc they said it could either be sent to the TBI or sent on to the FBI experts so the phone could be unlocked. And it also takes time to make sure nothing on the phone is lost during the analysis. Everything must be copied or it can be lost or destroyed. It also takes time to retrieve any deleted files. I have seen court cases where the experts testified and they said it took them many (up to 5-6)months to retrieve all the records they were looking for.

And we will not be told if and when they do unlock the phone or what was found. All of that will come out at the Pearcey trials. The taped conversation between the witness and defendant will come out as well and be entered into evidence. And I imagine much more evidence/witnesses will come out that we didn't have a clue the TBI had.

It is very obvious the TBI does not move fast on a whim. They are very guarded and arrest when they have the evidence to give to the DA so he can prove the cases BARD. It is up to the DA solely if he thinks he has evidence to prove the cases. So Stowe certainly thinks the charges against the Pearcys are sound or when he took office he would have dropped the charges.

IMO, there is a lot of information we don't know about the videos that Stowe and the TBI knows. No DA takes a case to trial knowing he doesn't have the evidence to win

Once all the evidence is entered in the trials both of them are going to be found guilty, imo. This DA is no fool. He is a Harvard graduate who is going to prove his worth to the communities he represents.

If there was really nothing at all on the phone then Pearcey could have cleared that up immediately by giving the TBI his pass code. He refused. An innocent man does not refuse to do something he knows can settle the matter once and for all. So talking about a giant red flag, his refusal to cooperate, even though according to him, the video doesn't exist (cough cough) was a big red flag. It is like when a guilty defendant refuses to take a polygraph test.

Imo he is counting on them not being able to find it. He thinks deleting it means it isn't retrievable and has been destroyed.

And respectfully your are wrong about Holly's parents accepting a long time ago that Holly was dead. They REFUSED to believe it and had the belief that she was being held alive somewhere. It was not until three years later after the SW of ZAs home and property that they finally accepted their beautiful daughter had been murdered. A parent never believes their child is dead unless they have PROOF beyond all doubt it is true. So the TBI did find physical evidence proving then Holly was no longer alive. There was enough proof that Stowe was going to take the case to trial without a body.

In Sierra Lamar's case her body has never been found but the DA has a voluminous amount of DNA evidence showing G-Torres kidnapped and murdered Sierra. So much so that he is asking for the DP even without a physical body. And way before Holly's remains were found the DA in this case said they were considering the DP.

IMO

 

[Plumeria5]

Oh, and as far as if they have the right guys...locals on other message boards mentioned these guys almost from the very beginning. How they knew, I'm not sure but word gets around in a small town. I think ZA is the right guy but not the only guy.

 

[Bali]

Oh, and as far as if they have the right guys...locals on other message boards mentioned these guys almost from the very beginning. How they knew, I'm not sure but word gets around in a small town. I think ZA is the right guy but not the only guy.

Do you have a link to those? I'd love to read through them.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Oh, and as far as if they have the right guys...locals on other message boards mentioned these guys almost from the very beginning. How they knew, I'm not sure but word gets around in a small town. I think ZA is the right guy but not the only guy.

You are right. The locals were already throwing ZA and JAs name out as early as November 2012 I believe. They mentioned ZA, JA, and SA. That is why they were known as the A-Train or A-gang.

It seems so many locals knew about this but were only posting on Topix and not talking with LE. Someone other there even said that ZA was posting there at one time.

It seems the ball got rolling once Dylan started talking to the TBI about what he knew and had seen.

Then TBI Gwinn said other witnesses have come forward now.

 

[Bali]

How do we know though that the TBI has not found the link between the Pearceys and the perpetrators? We really have no clue what the TBI has discovered. Who is kicking themselves? The TBI? The DA? I don't get that impression at all. Have they voiced reservations about arresting these two? They have had ample time to drop all charges but it sure hasn't happened and it isn't going to happen either, imo.

As far as finding it the witness did not come forth until May of this year. And then they had to go through the process of getting a hearing with the Judge to rule on probable cause so it could be forward to the GJ for an indictment which happened maybe a month or so back?

From what I have read it takes time (many months) to get into a phone like he has to do a complete forensic analysis. And they got the SW for his phone shortly before or right after he was arrested. Iirc they said it could either be sent to the TBI or sent on to the FBI experts so the phone could be unlocked. And it also takes time to make sure nothing on the phone is lost during the analysis. Everything must be copied or it can be lost or destroyed. It also takes time to retrieve any deleted files. I have seen court cases where the experts testified and they said it took them many (up to 5-6)months to retrieve all the records they were looking for.

And we will not be told if and when they do unlock the phone or what was found. All of that will come out at the Pearcey trials. The taped conversation between the witness and defendant will come out as well and be entered into evidence. And I imagine much more evidence/witnesses will come out that we didn't have a clue the TBI had.

It is very obvious the TBI does not move fast on a whim. They are very guarded and arrest when they have the evidence to give to the DA so he can prove the cases BARD. It is up to the DA solely if he thinks he has evidence to prove the cases. So Stowe certainly thinks the charges against the Pearcys are sound or when he took office he would have dropped the charges.

IMO, there is a lot of information we don't know about the videos that Stowe and the TBI knows. No DA takes a case to trial knowing he doesn't have the evidence to win

Once all the evidence is entered in the trials both of them are going to be found guilty, imo. This DA is no fool. He is a Harvard graduate who is going to prove his worth to the communities he represents.

If there was really nothing at all on the phone then Pearcey could have cleared that up immediately by giving the TBI his pass code. He refused. An innocent man does not refuse to do something he knows can settle the matter once and for all. So talking about a giant red flag, his refusal to cooperate, even though according to him, the video doesn't exist (cough cough) was a big red flag. It is like when a guilty defendant refuses to take a polygraph test.


IMO

How was he refusing to cooperate? He said in interview he willingly turned over all his electronics. I really hope he's guilty, I just see a lot of things that are worrisome. I suppose we shall see at the trial!

No DA takes a case to trial knowing he doesn't have the evidence to win

You have a lot more faith in the system than I do! Don't make the mistake of assuming that someone is guilty because the police assure you they have evidence but refuse to tell you about. Lots of people are wrongly convicted. Thousands every year. Wait until they release it and judge then

 

[Plumeria5]

You are right. The locals were already throwing ZA and JAs name out as early as November 2012 I believe. They mentioned ZA, JA, and SA. That is why they were known as the A-Train or A-gang.

It seems so many locals knew about this but were only posting on Topix and not talking with LE. Someone other there even said that ZA was posting there at one time.

It seems the ball got rolling once Dylan started talking to the TBI about what he knew and had seen.

Then TBI Gwinn said other witnesses have come forward now.

How scary! I wonder what name he used? Yikes!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How was he refusing to cooperate? He said in interview he willingly turned over all his electronics. I really hope he's guilty, I just see a lot of things that are worrisome. I suppose we shall see at the trial!



You have a lot more faith in the system than I do! Don't make the mistake of assuming that someone is guilty because the police assure you they have evidence but refuse to tell you about. Lots of people are wrongly convicted. Thousands every year. Wait until they release it and judge then

He had no choice put to turnover his phone. They had a SW. He cries victim and protests too much. If he truly wanted this matter cleared up he would have given them the pass code in a nano second like any innocent person would do with nothing to hide. He forgets the devil is in the details.

I don't think thousands are wrongly convicted every year. Do you have a link to that information? In about 20+ years the Innocent Project has found about 250-300 or so that were completely exonerated.

If we had to wait at WS until a trial is held and the evidence entered... we would have nothing to post about. We aren't in a court of law. We have a right to express our opinions before, during, and even after the verdict is rendered. That is what crime message boards are for.

I have been keeping up with criminal cases for over three decades so I have seen/read about many many criminal trials. Like countless others who I thought were guilty and were.... I think these defendants are very guilty as well. I have no qualms in stating it either.

It is my opinion that ZA and JA are very guilty of the horrific crimes for which they are accused. The TBI didn't arrest these diabolical brutes for three years. So they weren't trying to pin it on just anyone. They charged them when they knew they had the irrefutable evidence to prove they did it. They found that proof when they did the extensive search of their home and property, imo. It was only then they were arrested.

IMO

 

[geevee]

Why is it that the media generally says HB 'vanished' instead of being "abducted"? Is there any doubt a neighbor heard her scream, her brother saw a person in camo leading her away from the house and her blood was found? It just surprises me to keep seeing msm refer to her as 'vanishing' (a mystery) rather than being abducted (a known event). Thanks for any insight, I just find it very puzzling.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How scary! I wonder what name he used? Yikes!

I cant remember now Plumeria. But it was something to do with his middle name.

That place is such a hot mess and so hard to pull up any real information. Way too much time wasted bashing and trashing each other to suit me so I don't go there often.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Why is it that the media generally says HB 'vanished' instead of being "abducted"? Is there any doubt a neighbor heard her scream, her brother saw a person in camo leading her away from the house and her blood was found? It just surprises me to keep seeing msm refer to her as 'vanishing' (a mystery) rather than being abducted (a known event). Thanks for any insight, I just find it very puzzling.

I think they just mean once she entered the woods with the man in camo she vanished without a trace.

JMO though.

 

[Plumeria5]

I cant remember now Plumeria. But it was something to do with his middle name.

That place is such a hot mess and so hard to pull up any real information. Way too much time wasted bashing and trashing each other to suit me so I don't go there often.

Rye? I can't find a search box there. Oh, I posted there a few times and they scared me off!

 

[Foxfire]

Rye? I can't find a search box there. Oh, I posted there a few times and they scared me off!

:laughing::scared:

 

[Plumeria5]

:laughing::scared:

Yes, Foxfire. We have such cute little smilies here compared to, well you know!

 

[Foxfire]

Yes, Foxfire. We have such cute little smilies here compared to, well you know!

Ain't it the Truth, Plumeria5.. Been posting over there using my actual name for over three years.. It has been interesting..

 

[SteveS]

New here on this thread, bunny trailed from the missing girl in TX, Christina Morris... so I apologize if my question has already been discussed and I'm getting to know this case and the guys accused, trying to figure it out but, what I dont get is... this guy who Clint thought was Drew... it seemed like they were having a conversation...did he know Holly... did he NOT know her brother was also in the house... how could he be so brazen as to just come up to a house like that... the guy must of known there would be guns in the house... its very obvious if Clint was awake and coherent he could of just shot the guy on the spot... right? Seems like there were so many chances taken...even him just walking away with her and her not putting up a fight. She knew her brother was home... most women know that if you go to a second location your dead. Most women know its better to suffer violence right where you are rather than go off with someone as your chances of being found are better, quicker. Knife or no knife..her brother was home, she could of screamed....guns in the house etc...I don't understand why she would of just gone off with him without a fight knowing Clint was in the house. And if she screamed prior to this... and it didn't wake up Clint but was blood curtling enough, loud enough and terrifying enough for the neighbor to call the mom... so something made Holly scream and then not scream anymore?
And these guys that they caught... are you guys on here pretty confident they have the right people?

Welcome, I'll try to help...

1 " this guy who Clint thought was Drew... it seemed like they were having a conversation...did he know Holly" ...No one can say for sure. Brother Clint thought they were having an intense bf-gf conversation, others have assumed they were talking and must have known each other, but it could have been the perp persuading Holly that she better walk away or she was about to die. So no way to tell for sure if they knew each other, based on what CB saw.

2 "did he NOT know her brother was also in the house... how could he be so brazen as to just come up to a house like that... the guy must of known there would be guns in the house..."...Perhaps he had no clue. The parents had left, and apparently Holly's was the only car visible. From what we know, CB was sleeping and only awoke because of a barking dog. Only the perp can tell us what he knew, or thought he knew, and obviously that's not been revealed.

3 "her brother was home, she could of screamed....guns in the house etc...I don't understand why she would of just gone off with him without a fight knowing Clint was in the house." ...The answers to what went through Holly's mind will never be known, sad to say. Perhaps she was too scared to scream (again), and she did scream once but no response, so (she thought) why take the chance on getting killed. If she had already been stabbed, she may have felt that it was better to take a chance on elsewhere later than to die in the garage?

4 "are you guys on here pretty confident they have the right people?"...I think it's possible. But imo if anyone is "confident" they have to base it almost entirely on the assumption that LE only arrests the guilty, therefore these are the right guys, and we're just taking LE's word for it. Because, on the outside, we have almost no reason whatsoever to say these guys did it.

What we don't really know -
a - These guys (ZA, JA, and maybe others) were looked at as suspects in the community, early on, but they may have simply been the "usual suspects" since they were heavy into drugs and trouble, in and out of jail. And early on we also had lingering suspicions of brother CB, some said the family was complicit, and so on, so the fact these A-guys were also in that wide net is not very compelling.
b - Physical evidence? We have none to point to the A-guys. [LE may have a lot, a little, or none. But no one here has anything to point to the A-guys.]
c - Other evidence? LE claims to have "volumes" of evidence, but whether that claim means anything substantial or not remains to be seen. Obviously it is a statement intended to impress the public, yet we have to consider that those volumes may be volumes of relative junk. The fact they had it for so long and still didn't arrest anyone until a few months ago, leaves room to question how compelling the stuff is that they have in their volumes.
d - The SW at ZA property? We have not seen or heard of a single evidentiary item found there. The finding of the remains? Again, not a single item to point to the A-guys as the perps. [LE, however, may have 1000s of items from one or both of those sites to point to the A-guys. Or they may have none. But we don't know of any.]
e - I'm not one to put much stock in activity (SW's), boasts, press conferences, claims of a strong case, and promises that arrests are coming and so on. To me, that's just talk, and sometimes big talk is meant to cover up a weak case.

I recognize that LE could have piles of good evidence, but if you are "confident" these are the right guys, at this point it's based almost entirely on a willingness to accept whatever LE says without any evidence. In fact, unless I missed something, we have been told of only ONE item to point to the A-guys as the perps, and whether it's reliable or not remains to be seen.

LE has said that ZA's brother has told them, and is willing to testify, that he saw Holly alive with ZA/JA after Holly was abducted. The context of the brother's claim (including what he was bribed to say it), and his exact words, are a big issue, but it's a strong point if it can be corroborated. On that basis, I figure it's more likely than not that these are the right guys, but imo it's going to take a lot more than that to convict these guys.

 

[Tugela]

New here on this thread, bunny trailed from the missing girl in TX, Christina Morris... so I apologize if my question has already been discussed and I'm getting to know this case and the guys accused, trying to figure it out but, what I dont get is... this guy who Clint thought was Drew... it seemed like they were having a conversation...did he know Holly... did he NOT know her brother was also in the house... how could he be so brazen as to just come up to a house like that... the guy must of known there would be guns in the house... its very obvious if Clint was awake and coherent he could of just shot the guy on the spot... right? Seems like there were so many chances taken...even him just walking away with her and her not putting up a fight. She knew her brother was home... most women know that if you go to a second location your dead. Most women know its better to suffer violence right where you are rather than go off with someone as your chances of being found are better, quicker. Knife or no knife..her brother was home, she could of screamed....guns in the house etc...I don't understand why she would of just gone off with him without a fight knowing Clint was in the house. And if she screamed prior to this... and it didn't wake up Clint but was blood curtling enough, loud enough and terrifying enough for the neighbor to call the mom... so something made Holly scream and then not scream anymore?
And these guys that they caught... are you guys on here pretty confident they have the right people?
Like I said, I am new to this thread and I know its annoying when someone gets on after this amount of time with newbie questions already answered and discussed over and over... I'm on a thread just going on since June of this year and a newbie gets on and ask these questions already totally gone over... but most of us don't have time to go back and read hundreds of threads... so if someone can fill me in on that part... regarding why you guys feel she didn't put up a fight when her brother was home and guns were in the house? And was Clint so still tired he didn't really look close enough but just assumed this scraggly guy was one of his friends and her boyfriend... just too tired to really look, just saw what he thought he saw without really seeing?

My theory is that is was not really a random abduction, and that the bad guy came looking for someone in particular who he had reason to believe was there. When she said "no, why?" that would have been in answer to a question and I think that question was "Is X here?". When she said no, he took her as a kind of hostage instead, or to make an example of her to send a message to someone. Why would they go to her house? Perhaps they were looking for the boyfriend, and had heard that he was hunting on Bobo property. So they thought it was Holly's property when the BF was actually hunting at relatives property, and consequently went looking in the wrong place. Or perhaps he came looking for the brother, and Holly covered for him, that might explain why the brother didn't intervene.

I do not for one moment believe that this was a random attack, or a stalking attack. There was a reason for that guy being there IMO, and it was not for Holly herself.

If you consider that as a potential scenario, then it would be a way of rationalizing how and why these particular accused might have taken her, even though she apparently did not know them at all.

I think she was just at the wrong place at the wrong time, and that someone else was the real target.

 

[Tugela]

He had no choice put to turnover his phone. They had a SW. He cries victim and protests too much. If he truly wanted this matter cleared up he would have given them the pass code in a nano second like any innocent person would do with nothing to hide. He forgets the devil is in the details.

I don't think thousands are wrongly convicted every year. Do you have a link to that information? In about 20+ years the Innocent Project has found about 250-300 or so that were completely exonerated.

If we had to wait at WS until a trial is held and the evidence entered... we would have nothing to post about. We aren't in a court of law. We have a right to express our opinions before, during, and even after the verdict is rendered. That is what crime message boards are for.

I have been keeping up with criminal cases for over three decades so I have seen/read about many many criminal trials. Like countless others who I thought were guilty and were.... I think these defendants are very guilty as well. I have no qualms in stating it either.

It is my opinion that ZA and JA are very guilty of the horrific crimes for which they are accused. The TBI didn't arrest these diabolical brutes for three years. So they weren't trying to pin it on just anyone. They charged them when they knew they had the irrefutable evidence to prove they did it. They found that proof when they did the extensive search of their home and property, imo. It was only then they were arrested.

IMO

The number of people exonerated is just the tip of the iceberg. It is really, really, really difficult to overturn a conviction once it has been handed down, because while there is a presumption of innocence during trial when the prosecution has to prove guilt, the reverse is true during appeal. There is a presumption of guilt, and the appellant has to PROVE that the conviction was in error. That is a difficult thing to do, particularly in cases based on circumstantial evidence where convictions are largely due to emotion and rhetoric (and on occasion corruption on the part of the judicial process). Even in cases where there has clearly been a false conviction, it often takes over a decade to get the conviction overturned. It is a not a simple thing because the system refuses to accept the possibility of an error.

In cases where there is irrefutable evidence of guilt the chances of a false conviction are very low, but when a case is decided largely on circumstantial evidence there is a significant probability of a false conviction.

 

[Hatfield]

Why is it that the media generally says HB 'vanished' instead of being "abducted"? Is there any doubt a neighbor heard her scream, her brother saw a person in camo leading her away from the house and her blood was found? It just surprises me to keep seeing msm refer to her as 'vanishing' (a mystery) rather than being abducted (a known event). Thanks for any insight, I just find it very puzzling.

It doesnt make sense to me either and is just one of many questions from the early days. This is a perfect example of why this case has been so strange from the very beginning. There was so much confusion and so many questions that were never answered. Hopefully the trial will bring out the facts.