How did the McCanns dispose of the body - how did they do it ?

[Chewy]

I'm still trying to figure out how they think the McCaan's got rid of the body and it was never found?

They were not in an area they knew like the back of their hand. Where is her body if they got rid of it?

 

[brit1981]

*snipped for space and relevance*




The 48 questions Kate McCann wouldn't answer - and the one she did

She refused to answer all the questions that could have given the investigators any information that might have helped them to find Madeleine





That is definitely refusing to cooperate in my book.

If you want to say you cooperate in the investigation you're gonna have to answer some questions for me to believe you. Sorry. I know you have the right to refuse but I have the right to call it uncooperative.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...McCann-wouldnt-answer--did.html#ixzz2AyZlWBNj

If you actually read the fully translated files the majority of the questions that it is claimed she refused to answer tend to end or begin with a "can you answer any more than you already have done" s she had already answered most of them. Also if the only questions one is being asked are designed to try to implicate you rather than actually solve the crime then not answering them in not hindering the solving of the crime.

 

[brit1981]

I can see why Kate McCann woudnt answer the questions in that she was possibly annoyed and worried about the possible implications that could have arisen from answering the questions.
In fairness to her, if I was in a similar position and had done nothing wrong, there may possibly come a point where i felt that the investigation was being directed at me and I would be tempted to move to a defensive position, which may be what Kate McCann was doing?
If this was the only reason for having suspicion at the way she/they behaved, then I would give her the benefit of the doubt, but the general actions of the couple, make me think they are hiding something personally.

As for the reconstruction, the McCanns couldnt refuse because they were arguidos was how I understood it, that then leaves just the Tapas friends, what reason would they have to not return? surely it would have been in the interests of Madeleine to have assisted the PJ in a reconstruction yet they failed to help her, very sadly imo, that even after her disappearance, the people that knew Madeleine failed to help move the investigation forward

I agree that not answering is not always supicious especially fi you have already answered the questions. How many of us if we felt the police were nto in the leats bit interested in finding our child, but more interested in pinning it on us to close the case would be close to telling them to eff off.

As for the reconstruction, yes as far as I( am aware the mccanns had to return, but no-one else did. It seems form the files people only decided not to go when it seemed the reconstruction was nto going to be used for anything, and that not all of those asked were going back. Jeremy wilkins, who was not a friend, for instance stated he woudl nto return. It is also interesting that only the mccanns, their friends and jeremy wilkins were asked to return, and not the other witnesses such as the tapas bar staff and other guests, and those who were there when the alarm was raised. I think these people may have been of vital importance as they may have noticed tiny little things that did not seem important, but might have been brought up during a reconstruction, yet the PJ were not interested in having them take part.

chewy

I agree, no-one has come up with a plausible theory as to how they got rid of her body if they had been responsible for the disappearance. Given the timing of when gerry got back from tennis and when they were seen at dinner, they had an hour to dispose of the body on foot with no digging tools available in an area they hardly knew, and still shower and change for dinner, and despite it being daylight not one person saw them even though they would had to have done it in a public area. So madeleine would have to be in a public area less than twenty five minutes walk away (given the time to bury her, and shower and change), but so secure in five years her body has not turned up either through animals digging, people noticing disturbances in the ground, soil/sand getting naturally eroded (it could not be that deep a grave). It just seems implausible. It also begs the question why do it like that? If they are such criminal masterminds and so cool, then why not wait until the next day, tell people they are going on a family boat trip and claim madeleine fell overboard or something? A child drowning in an accident and not being found would get few column inches in the long term.

 

[Chewy]

That's actually a very good point I doubt anyone will really answer. Why in the world would they draw attention to it that soon? Why not take her down to the beach in the stroller and pretend she got swept out to the sea and drowned?

 

[brit1981]

That's actually a very good point I doubt anyone will really answer. Why in the world would they draw attention to it that soon? Why not take her down to the beach in the stroller and pretend she got swept out to the sea and drowned?

That is just one thing people have not been able to answer. Here are some more...

So far not one person has come up with any motive or evidence thereof,

an explanation as to how they disposed of her body

any evidence of why her parents would cover up her death

why their friends, friends of friends, and mother of friends of friends would partake in the cover up of a child's death and stick to their story for half a decade so far

why Tanner's sighting matched the smiths, why Jane would lie about seeing gerry and jeremy when she could just have said she saw the potential abductor when she went on another check and they were not there, her seeing gerry and jeremy does not strengthen her claim in any way.

why if her parents are guilty of a crime, they once they were cleared of suspicion and the case closed, they campaigned for it to not only be reopened by the PJ but to be reviewed in the UK too. So far the only people who have stated they want the case to not be reviewed are those who say the parents are guilty.

Why if her parents are after money they have not taken any money except for two mortgage payments that allowed them to remain in Portugal. In the UK the only options when given money for an individuel cause is to set up a company or keep it in an account managed by oneself. The McCann chose to set up a not for profit company, and the hundreds of thousands that were given to them personally to help them went into that fund, as did the royalties from the book which they could have kept, and the compensation payments went into the fund too not the mccanns own account.

 

[Chewy]

I don't care about the money. I think that you are oversimplifying the way they can access that money. Ex paying for plane ticket and expensing other costs.

I don't think they are good people at all. I can't imagine how selfish it is to risk your children't lives for the sake of a good time. To me what they did is really no more different than Casey Anthony.

If you have a child, the child comes first. Period.

Finally I think they drugged her. But I don't think they killed her. I think she was taken but they literally set up the means to do so with their own careless choices.

I also think that she's unfortunately dead because they plastered her picture everywhere. That eye mark is so very distinctive I can't imagine a kidnapper risking having her.

 

[osadelnorte]

If they did dispose of her body, I'm wondering if they somehow were able to have it incinerated. Maybe their medical connections allowed them to pass her body onto someone who could put it in a crematorium or medical waste-type facility. Does anyone know if locations like that were ever searched in the area near the Algarve?

 

[SapphireSteel]

If they did dispose of her body, I'm wondering if they somehow were able to have it incinerated. Maybe their medical connections allowed them to pass her body onto someone who could put it in a crematorium or medical waste-type facility. Does anyone know if locations like that were ever searched in the area near the Algarve?

I don't believe so.

In the earliest days they were looking for an abducted Maddie not an incinerated one.

The Portugese initially bought the "abductor" story simply because they could not concieve of the alternative.

Once the detectives came in, suspicions began, but as PDL is surrounded by sea LE really had no reason to think an incineration would be the method of choice, and the ovens had all probably been reused by this stage anyway. It is highly unlikely the McCann could locate or use one in a foreign country.

The McCann had no reason or need to arrange an inter-country secret incineration. There was a huge ocean at their doorstep which would swallow a tiny body much more effectively and with far less hassle.

Indications are, they hid her body overnight, retrieved it first thing in the morning, refrigerated/froze her somewhere already searched, then later moved her to another part of the country altogether via the Renault and performed a private sea burial.

Poor little thing.

:furious:

 

[Chewy]

Have you ever thrown something in the ocean? It would have come back in by now. Unless they went out in a boat and tied something to her and dropped her into the sea, she'd have shown up by now. Even Lacy Peterson showed up

 

[SapphireSteel]

Have you ever thrown something in the ocean? It would have come back in by now. Unless they went out in a boat and tied something to her and dropped her into the sea, she'd have shown up by now. Even Lacy Peterson showed up

I think that's exactly what happened.

We already know Kate was wandering around boat yards (see: "the vision").

 

[osadelnorte]

I don't believe so.

In the earliest days they were looking for an abducted Maddie not an incinerated one.

The Portugese initially bought the "abductor" story simply because they could not concieve of the alternative.

Once the detectives came in, suspicions began, but as PDL is surrounded by sea LE really had no reason to think an incineration would be the method of choice, and the ovens had all probably been reused by this stage anyway. It is highly unlikely the McCann could locate or use one in a foreign country.

The McCann had no reason or need to arrange an inter-country secret incineration. There was a huge ocean at their doorstep which would swallow a tiny body much more effectively and with far less hassle.

Indications are, they hid her body overnight, retrieved it first thing in the morning, refrigerated/froze her somewhere already searched, then later moved her to another part of the country altogether via the Renault and performed a private sea burial.

Poor little thing.

:furious:

That seems to be the theory, I agree. But any ideas about where she could have been frozen or refrigerated for that time period? I have my own four-year-old daughter, and (sadly) I can see how she would fit in a household fridge or freezer. But whose would they have used? If they knew no one in the area, how would they arrange such a thing? I'm not doubting the theory, necessarily, but I am genuinely curious if anyone has an idea.

 

[osadelnorte]

Have you ever thrown something in the ocean? It would have come back in by now. Unless they went out in a boat and tied something to her and dropped her into the sea, she'd have shown up by now. Even Lacy Peterson showed up

And remember, there was evidence that Scott Peterson had made his own homemade anchors using concrete molded in buckets. There were signs of this activity all over his workshop. But those anchors must have failed somewhere along the way for her body to have washed up in the bay like it did. I imagine it must be fairly difficult to keep a body from ever being discovered after a burial at sea.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The local priest gave them keys to the church so they could come and go any time. I do not know if this church had kitchen facilities but there were questions at the time so perhaps it did.

But, let's face it...it could have been hidden anywhere that had already been searched. All of the apartments were equipped with refrigerators. It could even have been hidden in a picnic chiller if they kept enough ice on it.

It may also have been chilled then buried then moved, or any combination of these three. We will likely never know.

 

[Chewy]

I think that's exactly what happened.

We already know Kate was wandering around boat yards (see: "the vision").

Evidence please? I find this line of thinking a tad ridiculous. They didn't own a boat, you think they stole a boat, smuggled a dead body on board and went out into the sea and dumped her and came back?

When? Do you realize how many hours that would take?


Also your jumping all over the place. Which is it, the church or the boat?

 

[brit1981]

POint 1: they had an hour in daylight at a time when peopel were coming and going to hide her body on foor someone publicly accessible. Yet it was not found that night. They are also the ones who got staff, guests and police searching despite the fact they knew the area much better than the mccanns. Not one person saw the mccanns during the one hour either.

2: what refrigeration. There is no evidence of this whatsoever, not even any evidence of her body anywhere. Where was the fridge, why was she not found in it?

3: how did they drop her body at sea. To go so deep it would not wash ashore they woudl had to have hired a deep sea boat which might have raised suspicions. There is not one witness to them doing so, not any evidence what so ever they did this

4: how did they not only hire a deep sea boat from someone without them coming forward, but move around a body without the tens of friends, family, police, staff, consular staff, family liason officers, and the worlds media noticing anything whatsoever. Do we really believe no-one noticed them going on a deep sea trip, or moving a body around? Yet no-one did, in fact no-ne noticed anythign suspicious whatsoever.

5: if the McCanns managed to hide a body within walking distance of the flat in daylight without the PJ finding it, then retrieve it, then rehide it, then put it in their car drive off, hire a deep sea boat and go out to deep sea and drop a body right under the PJ's nose then the PJ must be the most inept police force in the world. It is a bit of a vicious circle for amaral, because either way he looks a fool, as it is all very well claiming to be certain he knows they did it and how and knew this from the first or second day (as he claims in his book), but when it means this all went on under his nose and he never noticed at the time despite claiming to already know the parents were involved, and failed to even find any evidence of it, he still comes out looking an inept fool.

Chewy as for flights I belive richard branson has provided flights for them. BUt so long as the flights are being used for finding madeleine or helping missing children such as the EU trip to set up the EU missing child alert system what is the problem? Besides they coudl quite legally have kept most of the money in their own account, but chose not to.

 

[osadelnorte]

The local priest gave them keys to the church so they could come and go any time. I do not know if this church had kitchen facilities but there were questions at the time so perhaps it did.

But, let's face it...it could have been hidden anywhere that had already been searched. All of the apartments were equipped with refrigerators. It could even have been hidden in a picnic chiller if they kept enough ice on it.

It may also have been chilled then buried then moved, or any combination of these three. We will likely never know.

Good points. It's just so difficult to imagine being able to hide a body for weeks in a fridge without anyone figuring it out, or being able to keep that person quiet if they did, and doing this in a foreign country at that. So complicated and so bewildering.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Evidence please? I find this line of thinking a tad ridiculous. They didn't own a boat, you think they stole a boat, smuggled a dead body on board and went out into the sea and dumped her and came back?

When? Do you realize how many hours that would take?

They didn't steal a boat, I don't know where you got that from.

:banghead:

The theory is that they took the body in the Renault 27 days later to another port, hired a boat there, and dumped her body out to sea.

I don't need "evidence" for an opinion.

:cow:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Good points. It's just so difficult to imagine being able to hide a body for weeks in a fridge without anyone figuring it out, or being able to keep that person quiet if they did, and doing this in a foreign country at that. So complicated and so bewildering.

They were provided with a house to live in, rent free, and of course loads of money via donations.

They basically went on with their holiday while they waited, living life with their twins, sightseeing, day tripping etc.

Their friends and family came and went as guests...basically they had the sort of family holiday one could argue they should have had in the first place, with their children, instead of parking them in a foreign creche every single day and leaving them alone in a strange room every single night.

:banghead:

Anyway the McCann was left in complete privacy with teams of supporters from the early hours of May 4 onwards. This is what Goncalo Amaral is referring to when he speaks of "mistakes in the early investigation".

There would be no great sleight of hand needed. At that stage they had plenty of time and freedom to do what they wanted.

 

[osadelnorte]

I agree that they had lots of luxuries and privileges during their stay in PDL after the disappearance, but I'm not clear on how that translates to being able to hide a body in a home freezer and move it at least once (maybe more than that if they started out with the body in the MW apartment and had to move it when they were transferred to the other home they lived in afterward), or being able to hide the body in a church kitchen either. Like I said, I'm not doubting the theory, but it just seems amazing that they did this undetected. I suppose they could have paid people off, but to have nobody ever come forward or come under suspicion...it's just really mysterious to me, I guess.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I agree that they had lots of luxuries and privileges during their stay in PDL after the disappearance, but I'm not clear on how that translates to being able to hide a body in a home freezer and move it at least once (maybe more than that if they started out with the body in the MW apartment and had to move it when they were transferred to the other home they lived in afterward), or being able to hide the body in a church kitchen either. Like I said, I'm not doubting the theory, but it just seems amazing that they did this undetected. I suppose they could have paid people off, but to have nobody ever come forward or come under suspicion...it's just really mysterious to me, I guess.

It's mysterious to me too.

I can only go on what I've learnt about the case.

The only reason the moving and removing of the body has become part of my theory is the cadaver dogs and the Renault. I agree it seems outlandish...but the forensics are there.

:banghead:

None of it makes sense, or should I say, none of it makes sense unless you put yourselves in their shoes. They were desperate to hide what had happened, and that meant hiding their daughter, and they had the means, the possible motive, and most definitely the opportunity.

They also had CREDIBILITY and nerve and intelligence.

A heart surgeon must have nerves of steel to cut into a living human heart daily.

Even now, on this board, there is emotive resistance in some to believe the McCann capable. This has carried them a long way.

I agree none of it seems likely, but ask yourself -

How likely is it that on the one and only night the McCann decided to check their children, one of said children vanished, coincidentally at the exact same time her father was "checking".

Not only did she vanish, she was allegedly carried away in front of three people's eyes (two of whom inexplicably saw nothing) by an "abductor" who was on foot, and later walked past another party who are 80% positive he was Gerry McCann.

ullhair:

So what it boils down to are these, the inconvenient facts - the ones I personally just cannot get past. How likely is this scenario? I say it's so unlikely as to be impossible.

Gerry McCann was at the foot of his own apartment when his daughter was "abducted" from that apartment

The abductor walked straight past Tanner with Madeleine

Tanner claims not to have recognised Madeleine at the time

Tanner walked straight past Gerry McCann and Jes Wilkins

Gerry McCann did not see Tanner nor the abductor

Jes Wilkins did not see Tanner nor the abductor

The Smith Family saw the abductor and were 80% certain it was Gerry McCann

Who claimed to be at the base of his apartment when his daughter was carried out the back door/window a few feet away.

This same abductor, who apparently didn't even have a car nearby, managed to spirit a little girl away in front of the eyes, literally, of those charged to care for her on the ONLY night they bothered "checking".

He left zero forensic evidence.

He was described as an exact physical match for Gerry McCann.

He has never, ever repeated his crime, either before or since.

Forensic evidence indicates he was carrying a deceased Madeleine, surely a bit of a FAIL for a pedophile/human trafficker, and a fact which removes an abduction motive completely.

Means, motive, opportunity.

Who had them? There is only one logical answer, however unpalatable.

My opinion only.

:cow: