IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #11

[Jax49]

If the FBI wasn't interested in him because of the white van, wonder what they were keying off of? Just the time and location? Doesn't sound kosher.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Or burned up in a field or wooded area somewhere.

I doubt it has been burned because Iowa is so dry this year. Any column of smoke would be investigated ASAP.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The description of the man in CR that was involved in the attempted abduction of the 5 y/o is listed as 5'8" and 120 lbs, that is stinking skinny! Can that be even close? Even 150 would be pretty thin at 5'8" for a guy.

Well, that would fit my father at times in his life. He struggles to keep his weight up to 135 but under any kind of stress or illness, the pounds melt off and he has to go through putting them back on. And from watching him all my life, I know that there is no pleasure to be had in eating more food than you want to, just to gain weight.

My dad (who is now 84) has always been whipcord thin but he's very, very strong. Even now, he goes to a regular gym every day. He's nothing special in the weights room but many a jock has discovered to his chagrin that no one can out-do my dad at the cardio stuff! He can put that treadmill at the highest incline and run jocks who are 60 years younger right off their feet.

My dad has weight problems (as in, keeping his weight up to semi-normal levels) because he has a malabsorption problem since he was a POW in the Korean War.

In a young man who does not have a malabsorption problem, I'd suspect either meth or heroin (both drugs suppress appetite).

 

[GrainneDhu]

They may have waited until most people were home from work to get the most viewership. They have to investigate any tips that come in...But, yes...it appears a case of speculative guilt before innocent. I can't imagine being linked to a case like this if innocent...devastating. Mainly, because many people won't follow the news like we did and start the rumor mill or what not and believe he IS the perp. It's awful.

This is why I believe that justice is not for the dead but for the innocent living. I believe that, whatever it is that happens after death, someone who has died is beyond any earthly justice.

But the living deserve to have the finger of suspicion removed from them. From reading accounts of people who have been wrongly suspected, like Amber Dubois' stepfather, months and years of suspicion just wear down someone who is factually innocent.

I care nothing for revenge, for it does not undo the harm that was done and may only hurt more people (the perp's own family, for example).

Justice for the factually innocent is vital.

 

[GrainneDhu]

There is a possibility that they have a really good reason to search for white Astro vans. maybe they saw one on the video by the girls in the pking lot, and maybe one of the witnesses or neighbors saw one around the lake area that afternoon. So add to that recent attempted abductions, and they need to follow up on any they can find.

I have been thinking about that abduction attempt linked upthread---the 5 yr old boy and his dad following on his motorcycle. The article said that LE was not notified for 3 hours after the attempt. I do find that odd. But maybe Dad was watching his son, and they hurried home afterwards and MAYBE Dad has some reason not to want to contact LE. But once they told the mother or grandmother what happened, maybe she reported it.

A delay in reporting is actually commoner than you may think.

Something happens that seems to be illegal as all get out. The target or parent or sibling prevents it, the perp(s) drive off and the target is unharmed.

And then many innocent, good hearted people start questioning themselves. They don't want to believe that something bad may have almost happened to their loved one or they may question their interpretation of the event.

Or they don't want to believe that something bad could happen in their neighbourhood or while their kid is right under their eyes, etc. They may question if whatever happened was really reportable because even though it was scary, no real harm resulted.

So they delay and they often start seeking out other opinions. And eventually, as the shock of the event wears off, then they report it.

In reading about this phenomenon (I can't find the link, sorry) one article outlined the way the report is typically made in such circumstances. The reporter typically calls the LE business line and leads off with an apology for calling.

It was very interesting reading and I wish I could find the link again.

 

[Thespyma]

The description of the man in CR that was involved in the attempted abduction of the 5 y/o is listed as 5'8" and 120 lbs, that is stinking skinny! Can that be even close? Even 150 would be pretty thin at 5'8" for a guy.

Maybe not. My husband is 5'10" and his natural weight back home would be about 135. He has never tried drugs and does not drink or smoke at all. He has very small bones as do I. (I wear little girl clothes and am short even back home) Size depends on many factors. A muscular guy might weigh a lot more than a fat one and much,much more than a lean one.
I know a lot of guys I have worked with who never took any drugs and were 5'8" and 120 lbs.
I think in the US people are used to seeing larger people and European boned people. Even my husband has gained and looks like a normal weight American guy but he knows and I also know he is about 50 lbs overweight.
Bottom line is it could be drugs or he could just be thin and small boned. Or it could be drugs. We don't know until we see it as fact.:twocents:

 

[nikb]

I agree. It is embarassing and sad in some ways. It happens kind of often where I am from due to snow, rain and cold sub zero temps. A dad on his way to work will see the neighbor's kid or a neighborhood kid getting frozen waiting for the bus and being a normal decent human being will offer the kid a dry place to sit in the car or ride to the school. Totally benign and good samaritan. The kids will freak out and report it...then usually after the person comes forward, the kid will be like "oh, that was Suzy's dad...oops." These cases are sad because there are genuinely good people out there and then there are bad ones. But...I think most perps these days will use a woman helper if they really want to lure the kid into a car.

While I hate to think this I wonder if this type of scheme has been going on longer than we really consider? I remember distinctly being at a museum with my Dad, Aunt, Uncle, Cousin, and cousin's young child. A little girl about 2-3years old (guessing on the age, but she was old enough to talk to me and for me to pick her up, not old enough to be too heavy). She asked me to pick her up so she could see something better. She liked my braces and touched every one of my teeth. I asked her where Mommy or Daddy was, she said "Daddy said it was OK. He was hoping you'd help me." I couldn't SEE the parents but I was young myself (late teens), based on what she said I thought Mom/Dad must be close by. I (internally) freaked out wondering should I? should I not? Where are her parents? But I picked her up.

At one point my own Dad said maybe we should take her to security but she was really sweet and I felt sort of protective of her by then so I convinced him to wait a few more minutes. I felt like she was safer with me than in some cold security room. I ended up carrying the kid around for what felt like hours but was probably 10 minutes. We looked at exhibits, I helped her play around with one of the interactive ones. I think we were making "fossils" when her Dad showed up (unconcerned) and I was SO FREAKING relieved. At the time it all felt very innocent... like a little girl reaching out to her big sis to show her around. "Dad's" attitude was kind of "oh yay she found a friend." I got the feeling he'd probably been following us awhile (hopefully so if it was his daughter!).

That was way longer ago than I care to admit but now that I'm older I THINK it was a sort of a pick-up ploy by the girl's dad... one of his first comments was that he's a single Dad and was glad his daughter liked me... but reading some of these stories I think OMG was he checking to see if I'd be a good person to help pick up little kids?? Or was it really (more likely scenario) an innocent afternoon at the museum?

Sorry I know this is OT. I just think how crazy life is and how close *I* could've been to being mistaken for an "abductor" in the old situation I mentioned and well... I guess I feel for all the innocent people in this situation who've been suspected.

 

[butterfly1978]

This white van (or rapist van as my kids call them) episode tells me one very sad thing. The police have nothing, they have no idea what happened to these girls. Because of the attempted abduction of the 5 year old they thought that this may have been what happened to the girls and someone happened to remember seeing a white van on the survalince tape from Casey's. Folks I hate to say it but LE is grasping at straws here, they have nothing... MOO!!

 

[nikb]

Link, please?

Thanks for the reminder. It was here earlier so it'll still be here if the story hasn't been updated again: http://www.kwwl.com/story/19174082/...hite-astro-van-in-missing-girls-investigation.

I saved it into Word in case it's no longer there online, please let me know.

 

[nikb]

I personally wouldn't care one hoot if my pic and name were splashed all over the media,,,,,,,and if I were questioned by the FBI for hours.

It's all a necessary part of the process of weeding through the clues in the pursuit of keeping us all safe from the degenerates of society.

Seems to be a losing battle. I choose to cut LE some slack.

jmo

Good point! And I hope I didn't seem to be criticizing LE. I think they're doing the very best they can. I am just feeling bad for the guy. I'd much rather be someone never questioned by the FBI than someone questioned for hours, you know? That's all I meant.

 

[nikb]

This white van (or rapist van as my kids call them) episode tells me one very sad thing. The police have nothing, they have no idea what happened to these girls. Because of the attempted abduction of the 5 year old they thought that this may have been what happened to the girls and someone happened to remember seeing a white van on the survalince tape from Casey's. Folks I hate to say it but LE is grasping at straws here, they have nothing... MOO!!

Around here they're known as the "Chester the molester" van. It's disgusting. I have to wonder if there's way too much truth to it especially if little kids are saying it?

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>
He didn't see anyone else around so he told our daughter to go sit on the bench with her friend and he watched from the car. Finally her ride came and when they got home my DD said " Why couldn't she just come with us or sit in our car. It was hard for my husband to explain it to her, but sadly, he was nervous about inviting a little girl that he didn't know, never met before, into the car. SAD, I know. But he had just watched a good friend of ours go through He!! after being FALSELY accused by his ex of child abuse. So as sad as it is, many men are wary of having unknown little girls alone in a car or a home with them.

Sorry this is a little disjointed. I knew I posted my museum story for a reason. Point being if I was scared as a 17ish year old girl to be carrying a little kid around I can't even IMAGINE how scared an adult male would be.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This white van (or rapist van as my kids call them) episode tells me one very sad thing. The police have nothing, they have no idea what happened to these girls. Because of the attempted abduction of the 5 year old they thought that this may have been what happened to the girls and someone happened to remember seeing a white van on the survalince tape from Casey's. Folks I hate to say it but LE is grasping at straws here, they have nothing... MOO!!

Wow.

How times change.

Back in the late 80s, I got a white minivan. Cheap because it was the end of the model year and the dealer was trying to move the previous model year out (also cheap because I am ruthless in bargaining for a vehicle).

It never occurred to me that anyone would look askance at it. I didn't care what colour it was, I only cared that it was the model I wanted, had the features I wanted and I could get it down to the price I wanted. It could have been yellow, blue or purple for all I cared.

I did feel that being white was an advantage, since I am (was?) a serious dog person and the white would help reflect heat a little better.

Come to think of it, I did get more LE attention in that van. I always did have a heavy foot on the accelerator but that van was the only vehicle where I actually got a ticket (I've had an embarrassing number of warnings over the years).

Or maybe I finally met a highway patrolman who was immune to my charm!

 

[FrayedKnot]

People with white vans really need to either paint them or put some lettering (if for a company) on them. I mean, if you're not out there doing anything bad, who cares if it says, "Bob's Lawncare" or something.

How 'bout "Free Broccoli"? Then you KNOW he's not trying to lure kiddos!

 

[FrayedKnot]

Around here they're known as the "Chester the molester" van. It's disgusting. I have to wonder if there's way too much truth to it especially if little kids are saying it?

I was in middle school when Ted Bundy got nabbed in FL. He was driving a white van, IIRC, and it had been reported as a suspicious vehicle when Kimberly Leach disappeared.

I remember my friends and me getting all freaked out whenever we were walking anywhere and saw a white van.

And for 30+ years, I still think "creepy" when I see one.

 

[MNDad]

Everyone is talking about Mike and his white van, but it is also important to note that it looks like a camera is pointed at River Forest Road. Since we don't have new footage of the girls riding down this road, they must not have gone this way.

 

[AmarilloByAM]

I was in middle school when Ted Bundy got nabbed in FL. He was driving a white van, IIRC, and it had been reported as a suspicious vehicle when Kimberly Leach disappeared.

I remember my friends and me getting all freaked out whenever we were walking anywhere and saw a white van.

And for 30+ years, I still think "creepy" when I see one.

My sister and I still (like you for 30+ years) yell, "VAN MAN! VAN MAN!" if we see a creepy van.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Everyone is talking about Mike and his white van, but it is also important to note that it looks like a camera is pointed at River Forest Road. Since we don't have new footage of the girls riding down this road, they must not have gone this way.

Or maybe they do. Maybe the girls passed and shortly after this van pulled up? Maybe LE wanted to know if he saw the girls and which way they turned?

 

[Shelby2]

http://www.myfox47.com/story/191697...e-evansdale-girls-on-car?clienttype=printable

 

[Shelby2]

oops sorry about that I think I wrecked this page