IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #11

[Bodhi]

A delay in reporting is actually commoner than you may think.

Something happens that seems to be illegal as all get out. The target or parent or sibling prevents it, the perp(s) drive off and the target is unharmed.

And then many innocent, good hearted people start questioning themselves. They don't want to believe that something bad may have almost happened to their loved one or they may question their interpretation of the event.

Or they don't want to believe that something bad could happen in their neighbourhood or while their kid is right under their eyes, etc. They may question if whatever happened was really reportable because even though it was scary, no real harm resulted.

So they delay and they often start seeking out other opinions. And eventually, as the shock of the event wears off, then they report it.

In reading about this phenomenon (I can't find the link, sorry) one article outlined the way the report is typically made in such circumstances. The reporter typically calls the LE business line and leads off with an apology for calling.

It was very interesting reading and I wish I could find the link again.

Thanks for your insightful post. You are so well-read, and your posts are very informative.

I thought the 3-hour delay was very odd. It made me doubt that the incident occurred as the father said or as the media reported. I also wondered what the possible reason for the delay could be.

The psychology of people's reactions makes sense! Something like the kidnapping attempt the father foiled would be so bizarre that it would seem kind of unreal for a while. It happened so quickly, then the kidnappers were gone, and everything around them is just as it was, as if nothing out of the ordinary ever happened. Like a Twilight Zone moment.

The part about witnesses calling the police later on the non-emergency line and starting out with an apology rings so true!

 

[otto]

Referring back to the park. Bikes were found at a maintenance gate. Where I live, they hire summer students to maintain parks once school is out.

Otto: Could you please post pic of Maiden Road again at Meyers Lake. Did you also point out that there was a small building at the end of Maiden Road, no doubt for maintenance equipment.

I just feel that LE should look at this area again, specifically, take the maintenance equipment/hand tools and test for the girl's dna, along with fingerprints. :twocents:

IMO

I had refined the image a little, moving the possible location of the bikes about 20 feet to the east, and then my computer decided to turn itself off before I had saved the image. This is the photo I posted last night. Maybe Ollipop or another local can verify the details, as I'm basing everything on maps and information from the news.

This is all based on the assumption that the cyclist's tip is related to the girl's bikes. I don't believe that the girls were forced to abandon their bikes and walk to the end of the double fence area, as I think that would be too risky (too much chance that someone would come cycling along). I think they could have gone over the fence exactly where their bikes were found, which explains Elizabeth's purse on the lakeside of the fence. She was probably there and then the purse was taken from her.

 

[Evan's Mom]

Maybe not, but I think most guys would be upset about going through something like this if they're innocent. It can affect jobs and personal lives. Wives and girlfriends might be shunned by friends, and your kids could be bullied at school because of it. No matter if LE turned you loose a few hours later and made a public announcement regarding your innocence, some people would still look at you with suspicion.
You might be speaking the truth, I mean no disrespect at all, but it's a whole lot easier to say it than it is to go through it.

Exactly.
A perfect example of how something like this can ruin a man's life would be Richard Jewell. Dude was a hero and treated like a horrible criminal over something Eric Rudolph was responsible for doing.

 

[roseofsharon]

I had refined the image a little, moving the possible location of the bikes about 20 feet to the east, and then my computer decided to turn itself off before I had saved the image. This is the photo I posted last night. Maybe Ollipop or another local can verify the details, as I'm basing everything on maps and information from the news.

This is all based on the assumption that the cyclist's tip is related to the girl's bikes. I don't believe that the girls were forced to abandon their bikes and walk to the end of the double fence area, as I think that would be too risky (too much chance that someone would come cycling along). I think they could have gone over the fence exactly where their bikes were found, which explains Elizabeth's purse on the lakeside of the fence. She was probably there and then the purse was taken from her.

Thank you very much Otto! Thanks button was not enough!:seeya:

LE needs to take a look at this IMO, as to date, I haven't heard of any reports about LE looking at the area from an aerial perspective.

Also, can you leave the park on the other side of that building? I see dirt, but can a vehicle drive there?

TIA.

 

[otto]

Thank you very much Otto! Thanks button was not enough!:seeya:

LE needs to take a look at this IMO, as to date, I haven't heard of any reports about LE looking at the area from an aerial perspective.

Also, can you leave the park on the other side of that building? I see dirt, but can a vehicle drive there?

TIA.

It's my understanding that a vehicle can go to the building and then the trail goes a little further into the forested area, however it is not a proper road.

 

[palaminodee]

I think it was just a coincident that MK's dad had a white van the same model as the one with the attempted abduction of the 5 yr old....and bad timing for the release of the pics. LE only wanted to talk to him to see if he had seen anything of the girls since the girls were riding their bikes not too far from there and the possibilty that is the way they might have travelled to the lake.

LE or the media should have stated that they just wanted to talk to the person in the video to see if they had seen anything. The poor guy, the way it was reported sounded like LE already knew MK had info to break the case. IMO

just an fyi,,, there's other reasons I believe they were looking at this guy, not just because he happened to be there if you do your own research...(can't post)
both the timing of being at that location in relation to the girls siting on the camera and more reasons.

 

[hollyblue]

In a very early article it was reported the maintenance gate was open and was unlocked. If that is true, the girls could have walked through. As others have speculated, someone could have been in woods very near on the inside of the fence...maybe with a puppy, etc and the girls went to see it or chase it, conversation with perp begins and they are snatched. The purse could have been left when the snatch occured, EC laid it down to hold puppy, or someone came along, peered inside and chucked it over the fence just for spite. JMO, but I believe the bikes were very near the gate when found. ATM, I'm having a hard time believing someone convinced the girls to go with them to the end of trail on their own, especially w/o their bikes or that they were taken by force that far with the chance that someone could come by at anytime...the perps would have been in a blind area also. Of course, who knows how brazen a perp will be and what chances they are willing to take. I can't see two adults riding or walking the bikes there to dump, it would take the assistance of a child, tween or teen. But again, I don't have the mind of a child abductor. JMO

 

[whittymom4]

:tyou::gthanks::gthanks:

Thank you very much Otto! Thanks button was not enough!:seeya:

LE needs to take a look at this IMO, as to date, I haven't heard of any reports about LE looking at the area from an aerial perspective.

Also, can you leave the park on the other side of that building? I see dirt, but can a vehicle drive there?

TIA.

I also want to say thank you to Otto... :rocker::tyou:

 

[hollyblue]

just an fyi,,, there's other reasons I believe they were looking at this guy, not just because he happened to be there if you do your own research...(can't post)
both the timing of being at that location in relation to the girls siting on the camera and more reasons.

OK, I'll check it out. TY

 

[ShyViolet]

just an fyi,,, there's other reasons I believe they were looking at this guy, not just because he happened to be there if you do your own research...(can't post)
both the timing of being at that location in relation to the girls siting on the camera and more reasons.

So, do you think they knew who he was before they put his photo on tv? I wonder why LE would take the route of making him public, rather than just call him in for questioning?

 

[otto]

Sometimes, turning things around can give a different perspective ... I'm convinced they left by vehicle and this is the best place to conceal an abduction from that location. I'm also sceptical that the bikes were placed there at a later time. It not only seems very risky to subdue to girls and carry two bikes plus a purse to that location when the family was searching for the girls, but why not put them there after dark.

 

[lillygator]

wow....in reading the first few pages I was getting excited that we were getting somewhere finally.....

 

[otto]

So, do you think they knew who he was before they put his photo on tv? I wonder why LE would take the route of making him public, rather than just call him in for questioning?

The white van theory seems to be nothing.

""We got things all sorted out and they released me and said I wasn't a suspect in any way or anything. It's just they were following the leads," Knief said in a phone interview.

...

An attempted abduction was reported recently in Dubuque involving a white van. The Dubuque Police Department interviewed the driver of a white van who had approached an 11-year-old girl. The girl told her parents he touched her face. The girl ran away and her family reported the incident to police. Police interviews with the man revealed no criminal intent and no criminal charges will be filed."

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19174082/...hite-astro-van-in-missing-girls-investigation

 

[whittymom4]

Sometimes, turning things around can give a different perspective ... I'm convinced they left by vehicle and this is the best place to conceal an abduction from that location. I'm also sceptical that the bikes were placed there at a later time. It not only seems very risky to subdue to girls and carry two bikes plus a purse to that location when the family was searching for the girls, but why not put them there after dark.

Maybe because they were going to jump on 380 and not come back to this area so they just left them, or planted them there to throw off LE?? Meaning the girls are not in this area anymore??

 

[palaminodee]

So, do you think they knew who he was before they put his photo on tv? I wonder why LE would take the route of making him public, rather than just call him in for questioning?

if he used his credit card, then yes...

also if they had the license plate, it would go back to the guy's father/business and they would have definitely checked the father and family's background

Of course this is just my opinion

 

[palaminodee]

but you are correct in saying... I don't know why they would have made it public??

if they did not know the guy, maybe just coincidence he has a "history"

 

[otto]

Maybe because they were going to jump on 380 and not come back to this area so they just left them, or planted them there to throw off LE?? Meaning the girls are not in this area anymore??

If you mean that the girls put them there because they intended to disappear, I don't think so. If you mean that a perp may have put them there prior to 4 pm (up to 3.5 hours after the girls were last seen), I have to really wonder why. It makes much more sense to me to simply leave the bikes where ever the girls were abducted, or to discreetly stage the bikes after dark. Staging the bikes in broad daylight when family may be searching for the bikes seems really risky, especially since the target seems to be the girls and that was a fait accompli.

 

[cindersoot]

I just got back on and haven't gone thru earlier post, but did you all see the guy they took in for questioning?

 

[otto]

I just got back on and haven't gone thru earlier post, but did you all see the guy they took in for questioning?

Where did you see this?

 

[Wishbone]

I just got back on and haven't gone thru earlier post, but did you all see the guy they took in for questioning?

we saw him, is it the man you saw, lol