IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[Jules71]

maybe jules71 will repost one of her maps for you. The house is easily accessible from the water. It is a very short distance by water from the jetty to the house's backyard. We have theorized that was the role of the paddleboater. Just an idea.

ETA: Or instead of going to that house, it could have traveled just to the shore where the wooded area is.

 

[otto]

How do we know the girls didn't go back home after they were viewed on video? Maybe something happened to them there. This is not my theory, but a possibility for those that don't believe sightings by Mr C and TG and believe the bikes were "staged" at the lake.

The last time the girls were seen was on the video tape: 12:19. The grandmother would have told police that they were at home after that time.

 

[nikb]

(psst.. off topic, but there's been an update in the other case I've been following and the one that lead me here. Very important - IMO - evidence was found. It's detailed in her thread here.)

 

[MotherOcean]

Ohhhh...man....several perfect storms that I can see. There is only one truth.

I have 4 theories that I'm comfortable with and 1 that's a maybe. :aktion1:

I hope & pray the girls come home soon.

 

[RNER]

The last time the girls were seen was on the video tape: 12:19. The grandmother would have told police that they were at home after that time.

One would think!

 

[MotherOcean]

By water, the Island is accessible from where the bikes were found. Why would a kidnapper pick up the girls at the double gate and paddle boat them to his house?

I don't know. Why would anyone pick up the girls and take them anywhere? I was just sharing that the house that is for for sale on S. Evans is easily accessible from the jetty area if you were to use a boat.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Two weeks after the girls vanished, police were still trying to confirm that the girls had been at the lake ... so clearly anything said by the aunt did not pan out.

IMO that is a very important point. One that I appreciate you pointing out.

 

[MotherOcean]

Here is what I find odd about that 'witness.'

People were driving all over town and even around this lake area since 12:30, trying to find anyone who had seen the girls. NO LUCK.

Then Aunt T. comes onboard and has a 'gut feeling' to hit the lake, and the first person she speaks to--- BINGO---he saw the 'little girls' riding by.

Where was WC when Aunt T. spoke to the man? I wonder if she backed Aunt T.'s story up.

 

[CHERIE.T]

The last time the girls were seen was on the video tape: 12:19. The grandmother would have told police that they were at home after that time.

I definitely agree with that. IMO the grandmother had no reason to lie.
I don't mean to sound facetious but where the heck did the girls really go?
Who really saw them last?

Does LE have any real leads? IMO

 

[callyn]

Run a malware program instead of an antivirus and see what it finds. Try malware bytes (the name may be off but you'll find it on google)

Thanks. I forgot about running malware bytes. I used to run it regularly but forgot all about it. Thanks again

 

[MotherOcean]

Another question for tonight and then I'm done...

If the bikes were staged, do you think that the forensic tests on them (assuming they are doing that) will help LE to make that determination? I don't know much about forensics.

 

[Pensfan]

These young girls could have been talking to men on the Internet like the young Iowa girls in the following articles.
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ma...cle_9df28c9a-e705-11e1-afb0-001a4bcf887a.html

http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_6ffa1b8e-e9b5-11e1-90d3-001a4bcf887a.html

The man who was recently arrested in Waterloo might have found the 12-year-old Waterloo girl on the below chat site. (Lyric also lived in Waterloo.)
http://www.meetme.com/tucker882006


 

[GrainneDhu]

Possible. I've heard of cases where police were not called immediately, and it seems to always be a reasonable explanation.
I can tell you that nearly 25 years ago, my son wandered out of our yard while my back was turned and to make a long story short, he was found an hour or so later, more than a mile from our house, in a pasture with a herd of cows around him. He was almost 3 years old. We never did call 911. His dad is the one who found him. If he had not been found when he was, we would have called the sheriff's dept and they would have come out and searched on horseback, but my husband's instincts were good and he knew our dog was with him and that our son loved to explore the woods and creek banks. If something terrible had happened we would of course have been kicking ourselves for not calling them, but we were very lucky.
There are probably many cases like ours where children are found without the help of LE. Sadly, some are never found even WITH their help. There's no way to explain it, but I thank God every day that our son was okay.

ETA: I have to reclarify.... he was actually found within about half an hour or so, but it took at least 20 minutes or more to walk back to our house with him on his daddy's shoulders. But I knew the moment when he was found because the calling his name stopped and everything was quiet.

I'm glad your son was okay! Cattle are scary in connection with three year olds because they have hooves. A cow can be the sweetest creature on earth and still accidentally injure an adult by stepping on them.

I think victim behaviour varies so widely that it's difficult to infer something just from the elapsed time before a police report.

In the Riley Fox case, when Kevin Fox realises Riley was missing, he spent about 30 minutes searching the neighbourhood on foot before he called the police. The police thought that delay was hinky and it was cited as one of the reasons they suspected him and tricked a false confession out of him.

But it turns out Kevin Fox was completely innocent. It was exactly as he said: he thought 911 was a last resort in an emergency, after you'd exhausted every option available to you.

That sounds completely reasonable to me and I think in much the same way.

Other people demonstrably don't think that way but it doesn't make them wrong or hinky in some way. They just have a different way of looking at 911. Not wrong, not bad, not better, just different.

 

[nikb]

The last time the girls were seen was on the video tape: 12:19. The grandmother would have told police that they were at home after that time.

hmm this is way unlikely but your post triggered a thought. I wonder if the girls were on their way home from wherever they went on their bike ride, a little late but still within reason, and they just missed the people who were searching for them? They got home, no one was there, and they went out looking for their families? And for whatever reason the lake's one of the places they looked? Sort of the "what do you mean you were looking for me? I was right there looking for you!" coincidence. Of course something happened in the middle there and the girls disappeared.

The CCTV caught them going "away from the lake" allegedly (I don't really buy that, but for purposes of this thought...). Were they on their way home, and people are worried a little earlier than they remember? It puts them closer to the Collins house when they were abducted, but still accounts for the Mr. C sighting. Depending on the timing it could account for the TG sighting of the bikes. It even helps to explain why LE is so sure that someone had to see something, if they think the girls were out riding around longer than anyone thought. I'm still not clear on whether someone was at the house while they were searching initially.

I know, pretty far fetched and it seems overly complicated but it's a thought.

 

[Sunlight]

I think that one thing to keep in mind is that allegedly Lyric was late enough coming home that it initiated a phone call to LE a few days before she actually disappeared. So, something was going on. MOO

 

[Beyond Belief]

Were the girls at home with the grandmother all morning? Was this the first bike ride of the day?
Is anyone still searching?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm sure this has been discussed along with everything else, but I need someone to remind me. HC at PD reporting girls missing at 2:47. How in the world did police wind up at Meyers Lake area at 3:00?? I see in the above comment police went to the Collins home (which makes dang good sense) but yet at the lake at 3:00? Now I'm sure there was more than one officer involved but how did they wind up at Meyer's Lake in just 13 minutes? Isn't Meyers Lake a little over a mile from the Collins' home? Remember, at this point (3:00) we didn't know the bikes were at Meyers Lake. IIRC it was even stated in MSM police were "swarming" Meyers Lake area at 3:00. What or who led us to the lake in the first place?? Why didn't LE (as a group) originate the search on Brovan and kinda spread outwards? It just seems odd to me that this search went so quickly to Meyers Lake and low and behold that's where the bikes were found.
As I said in the beginning of this post, I'm sure this has been discussed, but someone remind me why "we" decided the search went to the lake so quickly.
TIA

BBM

Meyer's Lake is about two blocks from the police station and the police no doubt knew there were adult family members at that location from Heather.

The swarming comment came from one of the family members. I don't have a link so I'm going to guess it was Aunt TB.

We do know that it was a volunteer firefighter who found the bikes at some point between 3:40 pm (time that was stated in People magazine) and 3:58 pm (cited in many msm sources).

I think the swarm of LE was actually a swarm of volunteer firefighters. In small towns with volunteer fire brigades, LE calls on them to help out with any emergency where boots on the ground can help.

We know from Chief Deputy Abben that LE had searched approximately 1/3rd of the town Friday night. I'm assuming that was the third nearest the Collins home, since it sounds like they didn't work their way down to the residences near the lake until Saturday morning.

 

[Confusion]

hmm this is way unlikely but your post triggered a thought. I wonder if the girls were on their way home from wherever they went on their bike ride, a little late but still within reason, and they just missed the people who were searching for them? They got home, no one was there, and they went out looking for their families? And for whatever reason the lake's one of the places they looked? Sort of the "what do you mean you were looking for me? I was right there looking for you!" coincidence. Of course something happened in the middle there and the girls disappeared.

The CCTV caught them going "away from the lake" allegedly (I don't really buy that, but for purposes of this thought...). Were they on their way home, and people are worried a little earlier than they remember? It puts them closer to the Collins house when they were abducted, but still accounts for the Mr. C sighting. Depending on the timing it could account for the TG sighting of the bikes. It even helps to explain why LE is so sure that someone had to see something, if they think the girls were out riding around longer than anyone thought. I'm still not clear on whether someone was at the house while they were searching initially.

I know, pretty far fetched and it seems overly complicated but it's a thought.

Interesting idea, but DC was home with the 2 little ones when WC first started looking.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm not sure of the exact details, but TB said in the interview that she had said to go to the lake. TB was at the lake, perhaps with Gma?, Heather?...She said she started asking people if they had seen the girls on bikes, and that is when the one guy said he saw the two little girls riding around the lake at 2:30 (perhaps he was the paddleboater and maybe LE could never locate him, because she said that LE had his name...or maybe he was a cyclist or a jogger) Now, I'm not sure of the wording...was he saying he saw them at 2:30 or was she saying it was about 2:30 when she spoke with him? Anyway, I think that is about when Heather decided to go tell LE. So, I think at that point they had this idea that the lake was definitely the place to look...I imagine the reason TB first thought to go to the lake in the first place was because she knew the girls had been there before with the neighborhood kids. Or...something else. I dunno. MOO

According to Ollipop, Meyer's Lake is the only park in Evansdale that cannot be completely observed from the parking lot.

Aunt TB probably knew that the people who were searching were driving cars. Either consciously or unconsciously she realised that if the girls were at a park, it could only be Meyer's Lake since the other two parks could be completely seen from a car. Since they hadn't been seen from a car... go to the one park that cannot be completely seen from a car.

 

[Pensfan]

According to Ollipop, Meyer's Lake is the only park in Evansdale that cannot be completely observed from the parking lot.

Aunt TB probably knew that the people who were searching were driving cars. Either consciously or unconsciously she realised that if the girls were at a park, it could only be Meyer's Lake since the other two parks could be completely seen from a car. Since they hadn't been seen from a car... go to the one park that cannot be completely seen from a car.

The last time Lyric disappeared and did not return home on time, she told her family that she was in a park. When Lyric disappeared the second time that week, Aunt T. likely thought of the park again.

Parks are created for children, but was there some other reason why Lyric "disappeared" in two parks that week? Could she have been meeting someone and a park is an easy landmark for both to find?