IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[bessie]

In Memory of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook​

"Our hearts and prayers go out to the families and friends of those precious little girls. The Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office pledges vigilance in our pursuit of those responsible and will extend every resource to concluding this case so that justice may prevail."
-Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson

Posted by the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office - December 10, 2012

http://www.bhcso.org/

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls



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Media/Timeline thread: IA IA-Elizabeth Collins, 8,&Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 *Media/Maps/TmLne* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Scanner Thread : remember anything in the scanner thread stays in the scanner thread


case map by poster hollye

NCMEC posters:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...case/-/9357080/16505396/-/th3cnp/-/index.html


RSO Rules: It seems there is a legal consideration concerning whether we are allowed to bring information to Websleuths from the actual sex offender registry.

It is illegal to use the sex offender register information to harass anyone. We would never condone this at Websleuths. It is not illegal (in my opinion) if when a child goes missing or is harmed we look at the sex offenders in the area and post their information, along with maps to show how close they live to the victim. In every case we have local people reading and posting here. Therefore we are within the guidelines using this info for local information. Again, we are not EVER going to even hint at harassing anyone on the sex offenders list. Any posting we do about a sex offender will always be within the law. If any of you have other questions about what you can and can't post please contact a mod and we will do our best to clear things up.


Amandareckonwith's case archive

 

[otto]

Otto your last map was awesome! The possible bike routes are a great help to me. Could you please highlight the location of the Collins' home?
You have the word camera on a different building - were there other cameras on these possible routes? TIA
lease:

I made a decision to exclude information about the exact location of the victim's home for privacy reasons.

There is a camera at the back of the Cornbelt Auction, and that is the camera that captured the girls riding their bikes at about 12:15 on July 13. The red line shows the approximate angle of the camera for the video that we have seen. There would have been additional cameras along Lafayette - at least there would have been one at the bank, and possibly at gas stations ... but there is no additional video of the girls. That means it's possible that they were abducted right in the area near the home - within a on block radius of the corner of Brovan and Sipple.

 

[otto]

Thank you Otto. I do understand the need for privacy. I just wondered if they could be seen from home where the camera was. Grandma called for the girls to come in either right before or soon after the video from what I recall, I 'm not sure how sound carries in that location but where I am the neighbors can hear me for a mile. I admit I do have a loud mouth though. lol Anyway, just wondering if Grandma yelled and this was close then the girls should have heard her. So they must have been taken sometime between when they were on video and Grandma went in search of them which is only like 15 minutes. IMO the perp hears Grandma and had to silence the girls quickly. Grandma might have even seen the perp but didn't think anything of it.

I think so. Wilma said that they rode their bikes around the "loop" and that she kept an eye on them. They were riding away from the house towards River Forest Road when they were last seen on video.

I'm trying to understand the route that may have been taken by the perp if he abducted the girls within a block of the house ... not sure how this will work out ... it's difficult to squish the maps down to a size that doesn't blow margins

 

[otto]

I haven't seen this possible scenerio before but after thinking about it, just maybe.

On the opposite side of Lafayette road is a road that feels more like an alley because it opens up to all the backs of businesses facing Lafayette road. It's called Industrial Drive. One of the bar/restaurants there has a large 6-8 ft. solid wood fenced-in beer garden all the way around the back bar part of it. I'm pretty sure the wooden door/gate stays unlocked during the daytime in the summer, not positive. Suppose the girls rode their bikes behind the fence of the beer garden, and Lyric had Elizabeth watch the bikes while she went in to get some chips and pop. Then the perpetrator was driving by, saw little Elizabeth standing there all alone. He quickly stopped his car, made her get in and threw her bike in the back of his van/truck,whatever. That's when Lyric came out with the chips and pop, but it was too late to drive off without being seen, so he had to take her too so there wouldn't be any witnesses.

I assumed that when Wilma said that the girls rode their bikes around the loop and that she kept an eye on them, that meant that they normally stayed South of Lafayette. I don't think they would be shopping for chips and pop since they had just poured drinks at Heather's house ... and left them full on the counter when they went out for a short bike ride.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: When they`ve gone off before, how long did they usually stay out? And would they stay more in the immediate area?

COOK: Yes. It was just like where the post office used to be and a parking lot and then up and down the street, maybe a little ways down on the other side. And they`d come back and check in.

And they were always thirsty, wanted a V-8 juice or something to drink. And then maybe they`d go out for a short 10-minute ride again or something. But it wasn`t a regular basis every day that I would let them go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wilma, did you see them bike off? Did you see them get on their bikes and head out?

COOK: Yes. And they went to the parking lot where the post office is.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html

Here we can see where the old post office was:

 

[otto]

Yes.

The common materials that purses are made of (plastic and leather) all hold scent really well. Plus a purse is held and handled a lot, which saturates it with the owner's scent. Even a human being can match purses to owner's scent (I've run seminar demos and never had a human fail).

Since the purse and bikes were at the lake drainage pipe, and it's rumored that the dogs went towards the water, or the trees near Maiden Lane (FBI: water, family: trees), isn't it possible that the dogs could have been tracking the bikes/purse to the Maiden Lane trail ... and isn't it possible that if a vehicle drove to the area to stage the bikes, that the dogs simply tracked towards Maiden Lane where the bike scent originated?

 

[carbuff]

Since the purse and bikes were at the lake drainage pipe, and it's rumored that the dogs went towards the water, or the trees near Maiden Lane (FBI: water, family: trees), isn't it possible that the dogs could have been tracking the bikes/purse to the Maiden Lane trail ... and isn't it possible that if a vehicle drove to the area to stage the bikes, that the dogs simply tracked towards Maiden Lane where the bike scent originated?

Sounds like it to me. If he parked his vehicle there, it would be unlikely to be noticed, and even if searches were going on in the area, he wouldn't have been seen walking to that location.

 

[Bootsctr]

Yikes why? Location? Just curious.

Yes, absolutely location. Leads me to think the girls were abducted closer to home and not at the lake.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Since the purse and bikes were at the lake drainage pipe, and it's rumored that the dogs went towards the water, or the trees near Maiden Lane (FBI: water, family: trees), isn't it possible that the dogs could have been tracking the bikes/purse to the Maiden Lane trail ... and isn't it possible that if a vehicle drove to the area to stage the bikes, that the dogs simply tracked towards Maiden Lane where the bike scent originated?

Scent dogs track from oldest to most recent scent, both by instinct and training. If you think about it, the proto-dog ancestor of both wolves and dogs would not have had much success if they didn't track from oldest to newest. A fairly common newbie trainer mistake is to teach the dog to track backwards but even I, cynic about the FBI that I am, think they would not spend the money to fly in newbie dog/handler teams.

So if the dogs hit on the bicycles and then moved away from the bicycles, it says the bicycle scent is older than the scent the dogs are following.

Every scent dog varies but in general, a dog that is shown an object in the environment that was placed by someone other than the object's owner will circle the object looking for more of the owner's scent. Some dogs will keep going back to the object, some dogs will keep circling but not really going anywhere. Every well trained dog will make it clear that the object is the oldest scent present.

So if both dogs showed that there was newer scent in the environment than that on the bicycles, I tend to think that the bicycles were left and the girls then moved away from them.

 

[Bootsctr]

A well trained scent dog makes it completely clear where the source of the scent is. If the scent came only from articles, then the dogs would have zero'd in on those articles only.

From media reports at the time, the dogs did not zero in on articles; they indicated on scent away from the girls' bicycles and Elizabeth's purse.

For whatever reason, I think the girls did make it to Meyer's Lake that day. I believe that all kids are basically good but they all get into mischief and do a little boundary pushing on occasion.

A lot of posters have said that Elizabeth would never get that far from home because her mother was not well. I've been thinking about that and what I wonder is how much the children knew about Heather's condition? They'd already had one bad scare two years previously; would good, loving parents like Drew and Heather draw a detailed picture of what was going on with Heather's health?

I don't think so. I think they would be more reassuring, along the lines of "Mommy's defibrillator needs a little tune up, so she'll be going to the hospital soon and then she'll be all better again."

Since Heather said the defibrillator has to be removed from her body, "fixed" then re-implanted, my guess is that it is going off when it isn't needed. I don't think there is any way someone could hide that from other people; it feels like a horse kicked you in the chest when it goes off. So their children probably knew that there was something going on with Mom's defibrillator but good parents would be reassuring and treat it as just a routine part of having one, nothing to worry about.

I know someone whose defibrillator started misfiring. It knocked him out cold to the ground. Compared it to being struck by lightening. If someone's defibrillator was misfiring, would they be driving themselves to a doctor appointment? Why wasn't Drew taking her to the doctor appointment? Just curious.

 

[Bootsctr]

Yah well she's the same lady that promised us the girls were alive.

Yep! It was almost like, so sorry we bad! The girls were abducted. Let's do this whole thing again. We think the girls are alive. Sort of like apologizing to the family for focusing on them and taking it back.... sort of. Don't know if the voice mail from Elizabeth found on Drew's phone later had anything at all to do with the the FBI issuing the statement they believed the girls were alive so many days later. Anyway, no second chances in child abductions.

 

[roseofsharon]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...deo-elizabeth-collins-lyric/story?id=16850676

JP discussing with a reporter rather than being interviewed, oops, sorry I used the wrong word.

IMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

I know someone whose defibrillator started misfiring. It knocked him out cold to the ground. Compared it to being struck by lightening. If someone's defibrillator was misfiring, would they be driving themselves to a doctor appointment? Why wasn't Drew taking her to the doctor appointment? Just curious.

We don't know that Heather was driving. She may have taken a cab or gotten a ride with a friend.

Depending on the exact nature of the defibrillator problems, they can be more or less predictable. For instance, it sounded to me from something Heather said that the electrodes are no longer firmly ln place. If that is so, then it will hurt but not as severely as when the electrodes are firmly in place.

According to a family member who specialises in anesthesia for heart transplants (and so sees lots of pacemaker and defibrillator patients), getting the electrodes perfectly positioned and to stay that way is quite a challenge. They are attached to a moving object (the heart) and over time, they can get out of position in several different ways.

 

[nikb]

Yes, absolutely location. Leads me to think the girls were abducted closer to home and not at the lake.

Ah thanks. For some silly reason I was expecting to go to the review site and see all these scathing "reports" about child molesters there or something. When there were no reviews I was wondering more about why you were worried about that spot.

Yes, location wise it's definitely freaky and especially knowing it's not that uncommon for kids to go into bars in that area for say a glass of water. Around where I live you'd hear people gasping and panicking, but I'm in California and people gasp if someone lights up a cigarette, so I have a hard time knowing what's "normal" other places anymore. I completely get that it's different and IMO often happily different in other places, just easy to forget.

I had a very hard time early on with the whole "staged bikes" idea, but the more I read the more I wonder about it. Sounds like you too. I do think they were abducted very close to home. Just a gut feeling.

 

[nikb]

Anyway -- and it was a very hot, lazy Friday. There wasn`t many people out.

Weather record from NOAA at Waterloo Jul 13 2012:

Mean Temperature 76 °F
Max Temperature 83 °F
Min Temperature 68 °F

Thanks for the info.

Ha.. goes to show how regional differences come into play so much more than we'd think. Where I live in July 83 degree max would be like "YES! Finally a day cool enough to go outside!" In other places including Waterloo I can see how that'd be a hot day. I can recall going to Canada and wearing coats/sweaters when the locals were in swimsuits/shorts. I think that's why local insight is so helpful in these cases.

 

[otto]

"According to the FBI website, the scent teams work with crime scene technicians who collect scents by using a special vacuum. The smells are vacuumed onto a sterile pad and placed in a jar where they can be stored.

The bloodhounds take a whiff of the pad and can indicate a match or non-match when compared with other scents, according to the website. They can also use follow invisible trails of the scents.

In the Evansdale case, Breault said the dogs had indicated the girls’ scent was in the area near Meyers Lake.

“The scent did lead to the water, which is also where their bikes were found,” she said."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e795f002-d1ad-11e1-b983-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[otto]

Scent dogs track from oldest to most recent scent, both by instinct and training. If you think about it, the proto-dog ancestor of both wolves and dogs would not have had much success if they didn't track from oldest to newest. A fairly common newbie trainer mistake is to teach the dog to track backwards but even I, cynic about the FBI that I am, think they would not spend the money to fly in newbie dog/handler teams.

So if the dogs hit on the bicycles and then moved away from the bicycles, it says the bicycle scent is older than the scent the dogs are following.

Every scent dog varies but in general, a dog that is shown an object in the environment that was placed by someone other than the object's owner will circle the object looking for more of the owner's scent. Some dogs will keep going back to the object, some dogs will keep circling but not really going anywhere. Every well trained dog will make it clear that the object is the oldest scent present.

So if both dogs showed that there was newer scent in the environment than that on the bicycles, I tend to think that the bicycles were left and the girls then moved away from them.

Breault said: "The scent did lead to the water, which is also where their bikes were found,” she said."

Police have said that the dogs tracked to the water next to the bikes, which is also where the bikes were, so wouldn't that mean that they provided no useful information?

 

[cindersoot]

Friday July 13th was a very hot and humid day, with light rain on and off. Many people in Iowa on a day like this, stay indoors where it's cooler. I noticed the day that I rode the bike trail to the lake which was on the weekend, there was only one person that I passed on that bike trail. Remember it only took me less than 10 minutes to reach the lake where the bikes were found, from Elizabeths residence.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks for the info.

Ha.. goes to show how regional differences come into play so much more than we'd think. Where I live in July 83 degree max would be like "YES! Finally a day cool enough to go outside!" In other places including Waterloo I can see how that'd be a hot day. I can recall going to Canada and wearing coats/sweaters when the locals were in swimsuits/shorts. I think that's why local insight is so helpful in these cases.

Yeah, really. Too hot and humid to go out had me thinking 97F with 95% humidity -- and I know some people from the deep south who would think 97/97 was a cool dry summer day.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Breault said: "The scent did lead to the water, which is also where their bikes were found,” she said."

Police have said that the dogs tracked to the water next to the bikes, which is also where the bikes were, so wouldn't that mean that they provided no useful information?

Well, it does suggest that the girls were at Meyer's Lake that day.

It could be useful or it may be useless. Hard to say until the case is over.

One way it might be useful is if someone out there has picked up something hinky about the perp and then realises that the perp was familiar with both Meyer's Lake and 7 Bridges.

Or some other combination of little facts that individually don't mean much but give someone the intuition that maybe this guy they know did it.

 

[otto]

Well, it does suggest that the girls were at Meyer's Lake that day.

It could be useful or it may be useless. Hard to say until the case is over.

One way it might be useful is if someone out there has picked up something hinky about the perp and then realises that the perp was familiar with both Meyer's Lake and 7 Bridges.

Or some other combination of little facts that individually don't mean much but give someone the intuition that maybe this guy they know did it.

The children's scent would have been on the bikes, and when the dogs were directed to track the scent, they went to the bikes. That's all they did. Couldn't this also mean that the dogs simple located the items that belonged to the children? Since the dogs did not track in any direction away from the bikes, wouldn't that mean that there was no scent from the children leading in any direction away from the bikes?

How would we conclude that because the dogs identified the bikes that belonged to the children, the children were there ... especially given the fact that the dogs stopped dead in their tracks at the bikes?