Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[otto]

Another thing to think about in our efforts to profile a suspect, IMO, is his occupation. If he was employed, his job was one where he did not work all day in an office. It took longer than a lunch hour to abduct the girls and take them to Seven Bridges, kill them and leave their bodies (my theory) or to wherever he held them.

I thought of a delivery driver, but they are usually on a schedule and a large, unexplained block of time would be suspicious, IMO. I think the perp was unemployed, self-employed, or had the sort of job where he could set his own schedule.

If the perp did have a "traditional" job, he must have left around noon and not returned. JMO.

I don't know how it works in Evansdale, but a lot of people here take Friday's off - they bank time through the week. That it happened on a Friday at noon ... does that necessarily mean that it could not be someone that works in an office?

 

[24Roses]

I watched both parts of the Steele report and didn't see where Drew said he was spending a lot of time in bed, so it must be some other interview. Do you happen to have a link?

I was actually relieved at the way Heather looks. Two years ago, she was so thin and looked so, well, sick both in heart and body. She looked healthier and more vibrant to me in this most recent Ron Steele interview. It was news to me that Heather had decided to go to marriage counselling with Drew; originally she wasn't going to counselling with him at all.

Drew, my heart aches for him.

I was sad to hear that Heather has had no contact with Misty; family support is really important for people who are trying to cope with addiction.

Keep checking for the latest Steele Report. They may not of updated yet.

 

[Fukiyama]

I watched too. Wow; they both looked like her death is taking a toll on them. Heather has always appeared to be so strong, but I think now it is finally starting to sink in what has happened to her family over the last 3 years. I didn't catch part of what she said about counseling, but I hope she too is going. I know in the past it has always been Drew and the children, but she didn't feel she needed it. I pray everyday that they find who did this so Elizabeth and Lyric can truly rest in peace.

When they talked about counseling, it was interesting because it didn't go along with anything I had seen before. Ron Steele asked about counseling and he seemed to be talking to Drew and then Drew replied about he was going and in his answer, he indicated it was marriage counseling. And then Heather chimed in and they talked about their difficulties and how their marriage is stronger now. No indication at all they were referring to grief counseling with the kids.

I watched both parts of the Steele report and didn't see where Drew said he was spending a lot of time in bed, so it must be some other interview. Do you happen to have a link?

I was actually relieved at the way Heather looks. Two years ago, she was so thin and looked so, well, sick both in heart and body. She looked healthier and more vibrant to me in this most recent Ron Steele interview. It was news to me that Heather had decided to go to marriage counselling with Drew; originally she wasn't going to counselling with him at all.

Drew, my heart aches for him.

I was sad to hear that Heather has had no contact with Misty; family support is really important for people who are trying to cope with addiction.

There is a part three.

http://www.kwwl.com/category/256572/the-steele-report

I'm assuming it's in there since it was near the end this morning on TV. Ron brought up that Drew has a business and Drew talked about how hard that's been because he wants to sleep and it's hard on Heather running a household and dealing with the kids when Drew is in bed all day.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Keep checking for the latest Steele Report. They may not of updated yet.

ETA: I hadn't realised there was a third part.

Poor Drew and poor Heather. I'm glad, though, that they feel their marriage has come back stronger than ever.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

When they talked about counseling, it was interesting because it didn't go along with anything I had seen before. Ron Steele asked about counseling and he seemed to be talking to Drew and then Drew replied about he was going and in his answer, he indicated it was marriage counseling. And then Heather chimed in and they talked about their difficulties and how their marriage is stronger now. No indication at all they were referring to grief counseling with the kids.

SBM

Around Christmas 2012, I remember they did an interview where they had to position Heather's microphone in the Christmas tree in the set dec to be sure that it would not interfere with her pacemaker. In that interview, Drew said he'd been going to counselling and it helped but Heather was not going and did not feel the need for it.

 

[otto]

It sounds like Heather believes that Misty and Dan's drug dealings had something to do with Lyric and Elizabeth's abduction, but that her husband believes it was more likely a sexual predator.

I found it interesting that when the interviewer asked if they knew cause death, Heather said that they asked that they not be told the cause of death. Drew returns to that question and states that he wants to know the answer to cause of death, but that investigators will not release that information ... two completely different positions regarding what information is, and is not, available.

What doesn't make sense is that if she believes this had something to do with the drug deals, why does she think people with no connection to drugs need to be "on guard" regarding this killer? It was either targeted and drug related, or it was random and all children are at risk ... but it can't be both.

Heather believes that the girls were murdered within hours of abduction. If anyone knows the condition of the remains, it's Heather. This presents another contradiction. She says that she's read the stats and that children are typically murdered within hours of abduction. That is true of sexual predators, but not true when the abduction is related to some sort of extortion - like Dan's cancelled plea deal over drugs. On the one hand she thinks the abduction is related to Dan's drug deal, and then she describes the abduction in terms of typical sexual predator.

 

[Fukiyama]

SBM

Around Christmas 2012, I remember they did an interview where they had to position Heather's microphone in the Christmas tree in the set dec to be sure that it would not interfere with her pacemaker. In that interview, Drew said he'd been going to counselling and it helped but Heather was not going and did not feel the need for it.

Exactly. That Heather didn't want to go to counseling with Drew and the kids has been known for a long time. This interview today it's the opposite, Heather was onboard with marriage counseling and Drew was the one who had to be coaxed into it.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

It sounds like Heather believes that Misty and Dan's drug dealings had something to do with Lyric and Elizabeth's abduction, but that her husband believes it was more likely a sexual predator.

I found it interesting that when the interviewer asked if they knew cause death, Heather said that they asked that they not be told the cause of death. Drew returns to that question and states that he wants to know the answer to cause of death, but that investigators will not release that information ... two completely different positions regarding what information is, and is not, available.

What doesn't make sense is that if she believes this had something to do with the drug deals, why does she think people with no connection to drugs need to be "on guard" regarding this killer? It was either targeted and drug related, or it was random and all children are at risk ... but it can't be both.

Heather believes that the girls were murdered within hours of abduction. If anyone knows the condition of the remains, it's Heather. This presents another contradiction. She says that she's read the stats and that children are typically murdered within hours of abduction. That is true of sexual predators, but not true when the abduction is related to some sort of extortion - like Dan's cancelled plea deal over drugs. On the one hand she thinks the abduction is related to Dan's drug deal, and then she describes the abduction in terms of typical sexual predator.

I don't think anyone suspects Heather or Drew, so here we have it: two eyewitnesses with no reason to lie, who have both witnessed the same events and yet there's a (minor) discrepancy in their recollections.

Drew said that he goes back and forth on the motivation of the perp(s); when he said that, Heather nodded her head and I took it to mean "yes, I go back and forth too." Heather also talked about how she sees young children out playing without adults and her sense is that people are starting to relax as time goes on but that they should actually be doing the opposite. I took that as a reference to the possibility that this was motivated by a sexual predator whose desire for more stimulation would presumably wane right after he abducted Elizabeth and Lyric but would then start to increase again. Which suggests that Heather is not completely convinced of the drug connection theory.

I realised something watching the Steele interview. Drew was talking about how the investigators tell them very little and I suddenly had my "oh duh" moment: it's because the investigators have not yet ruled out that the perp(s) are people known, maybe even very well known, to Drew and Heather. Obviously LE wouldn't want the perp(s) to be able to get information on the investigation that Drew and Heather might release without even realising it.

But that leaves the two families in the horrid position of looking at everyone around them and not knowing who they can really trust. I'm not really sold on the concept that justice is for the deceased; I believe so strongly that such things just don't matter to the spirit (or soul or whatever) after death that I just can't wrap my mind around the idea of a soul that can't rest or has vengeful feelings until earthly justice is meted out.

I do believe that justice is for the living, to restore as much peace of mind as possible to the living victims and to relieve the innocent of the burden of suspicion.

 

[otto]

I don't think anyone suspects Heather or Drew, so here we have it: two eyewitnesses with no reason to lie, who have both witnessed the same events and yet there's a (minor) discrepancy in their recollections.

Drew said that he goes back and forth on the motivation of the perp(s); when he said that, Heather nodded her head and I took it to mean "yes, I go back and forth too." Heather also talked about how she sees young children out playing without adults and her sense is that people are starting to relax as time goes on but that they should actually be doing the opposite. I took that as a reference to the possibility that this was motivated by a sexual predator whose desire for more stimulation would presumably wane right after he abducted Elizabeth and Lyric but would then start to increase again. Which suggests that Heather is not completely convinced of the drug connection theory.

I realised something watching the Steele interview. Drew was talking about how the investigators tell them very little and I suddenly had my "oh duh" moment: it's because the investigators have not yet ruled out that the perp(s) are people known, maybe even very well known, to Drew and Heather. Obviously LE wouldn't want the perp(s) to be able to get information on the investigation that Drew and Heather might release without even realising it.

But that leaves the two families in the horrid position of looking at everyone around them and not knowing who they can really trust. I'm not really sold on the concept that justice is for the deceased; I believe so strongly that such things just don't matter to the spirit (or soul or whatever) after death that I just can't wrap my mind around the idea of a soul that can't rest or has vengeful feelings until earthly justice is meted out.

I do believe that justice is for the living, to restore as much peace of mind as possible to the living victims and to relieve the innocent of the burden of suspicion.

I doubt that police release information about an ongoing investigation to anyone - not just in this case. This caught my attention(Part 3): the interviewer asked about the police profile of a suspect 'who blends in the Evansdale and surrounding counties, and that the person used "quiet coercion" to kidnap the girls; that the girls were likely victims of opportunity.' That suggests to me that this had nothing to do with drugs or Misty. I have to wonder if one of Heather's coping mechanisms is to have someone to blame - in this case Misty. She did say that she has not spoken to her sister in a long time.

 

[dotr]

Since LE at one time considered, then rejected Klunder as a suspect in the murders, i am inclined to think that LE are looking for a sex offender, imo.

 

[carbuff]

Every time I watch Drew and Heather in an interview, they look like they're destroyed inside. They're strong, they're trying to keep on keeping on, but it's like rebuilding on Ground Zero. It'll never be the same. And I think that if somebody did it on purpose to destroy them inside, they couldn't have done a better job.

And then I wonder, Is that what somebody did? Is that why?

 

[otto]

Every time I watch Drew and Heather in an interview, they look like they're destroyed inside. They're strong, they're trying to keep on keeping on, but it's like rebuilding on Ground Zero. It'll never be the same. And I think that if somebody did it on purpose to destroy them inside, they couldn't have done a better job.

And then I wonder, Is that what somebody did? Is that why?

I really doubt that Elizabeth and Lyric were abducted, murdered, and left in an isolated location 20 miles from home because someone wanted to hurt one of the parents. First of all, there's no guarantee that harming someone's child will destroy the parent. In some cases it does, but in other cases the parents are not destroyed. If someone wanted to harm Drew or Heather, they would have targeted one of them, not one of their four children ... a child who just happened to be cycling quite some distance from home on a warm July day. I completely eliminate Lyric as a drug related target because she wasn't even in the same city where she lived. If anyone wanted to try to harm a couple of drug dealers by abducting their child (probably many better ways to harm them than by taking a child they were not raising), then they would have taken that child at her home, not another child that lived in another city.

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, logically it doesn't work, does it? Just one of those things that watching them makes me wonder about...

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't know how it works in Evansdale, but a lot of people here take Friday's off - they bank time through the week. That it happened on a Friday at noon ... does that necessarily mean that it could not be someone that works in an office?

Thanks for the info, Otto, because I was not aware that a lot of people take Fridays off. So, the perp could be someone with a "regular" job who was off on a Friday.

 

[otto]

Thanks for the info, Otto, because I was not aware that a lot of people take Fridays off. So, the perp could be someone with a "regular" job who was off on a Friday.

It could be. I know that professionals quite often work the hours that they want, with the stipulation that the work a required number of hours per week. How they do that is their business. I think the fact that it was a Friday the 13th has significance.

 

[Squeeze]

There are some businesses around here that allow that. Target Distribution normal shifts are I believe 10 hours per day. Personally, I didn't work Fridays as I earned enough vacation that I took Fridays off each summer. But yes, it is fairly common for people to adjust their work hours to have a longer weekend. Downside of a new job, I now work Fridays. Booooo....

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

[dotr]

It could be. I know that professionals quite often work the hours that they want, with the stipulation that the work a required number of hours per week. How they do that is their business. I think the fact that it was a Friday the 13th has significance.

rbbm.
Ditto.

 

[alliemay]

Wasn't the problem that the witnesses did not come forward with the information for a long time? Didn't they assume that someone else had reported it, so they didn't call it in?

I have trouble trying to do a lot of things on my phone but there is an article that says New and old leads prompt police to ask public for help. It dems they had to go through tons of paper work regarding tips to find the tip about the white van two to three months after the girls went missing

 

[dotr]

Who has Friday afternoons off? Almost anyone.
Some examples.

- people on summer vacation
- retirees
- students
-free-lancers of any kind, self-employed
-entertainment industry workers
- hospital, hotel staff, emergency personnel - police, fire-fighters
- office cleaners
- restaurant staff
- office honchos taking an ' extended " lunch.
- someone calling in " sick "
- someone who actually is sick.

 

[Ommmm]

There are some businesses around here that allow that. Target Distribution normal shifts are I believe 10 hours per day. Personally, I didn't work Fridays as I earned enough vacation that I took Fridays off each summer. But yes, it is fairly common for people to adjust their work hours to have a longer weekend. Downside of a new job, I now work Fridays. Booooo....

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

John Deere third shifters work Sunday through Thursday.