IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

[inquiringmindz]

Has anyone else noticed that "Jimmy Gibson" fits in with the whole "JG" pattern of this bizarre story: Johhny Gosch, Jeff Gannon, Jim Guckert? If someone is hoaxing NG, this may be a clue that the pictures part of the story is a hoax also.

Yes, I noticed the same thing. I think Jimmy Gibson was in the picture long before Jeff Gannon/Guckert. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[inquiringmindz]

I did the same thing.

Did you, Roy?

I also emailed her with the photo and the link to the site. I'm sure if three of us at WS brought it to her attention, I'm sure other forum posters/bloggers did too.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Has anyone else noticed that "Jimmy Gibson" fits in with the whole "JG" pattern of this bizarre story: Johhny Gosch, Jeff Gannon, Jim Guckert? If someone is hoaxing NG, this may be a clue that the pictures part of the story is a hoax also.

And Doogie, along those same lines, does anyone know what Gunderson's first name is? Does he fit the JG profile, too? LOL!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

And Doogie, along those same lines, does anyone know what Gunderson's first name is? Does he fit the JG profile, too? LOL!

I believe that Gunderson's name is Ted. Based on all of the possible matches for Johnny Gosch, I had to check my own driver's license to confirm that I am not him - LOL!

 

[Roy Harrold]

I also emailed her with the photo and the link to the site. I'm sure if three of us at WS brought it to her attention, I'm sure other forum posters/bloggers did too.

Yes, that's my point. I didn't "discover" the site, and I assume none of you here discovered it independent of "Jimmy Gibson's" posting about it either. So, as far as I can tell the "discoverer" of the site (in the sense of someone who made its existence public) was this "Jimmy Gibson" poster on the Register.

It's a small point, unless Noreen is saying "Jimmy" - the discoverer of the site - is an investigator of hers, because if that is what she means to say it kind of validates the story "Jimmy" gave about how the photos ended up in Noreen Gosch's associates hands - and presumably in hers.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Joubert's MO does seem to fit so well with the disappearance of Johnny Gosch, but your point, HeartofTexas, about how Joubert could possibly have had the time to get up to Des Moines to abduct Gosch makes me think a Joubert - Gosch connection is less likely. What also bothers me is the other extremely similar case of missing paperboy Eugene Wade Martin -- but Martin didn't disappear until August 1984. Joubert was already in custody by January 1984. No way Joubert was involved in Martin's disappearance.

Maima, I agree. Also, his bodies were always found, unlike Gosch's, which has never re-appeared. Right now I'm going to discontinue doing anymore research on Joubert based on my gut feel that it probably isn't him. If I do run across anything else I think is pertinent, though, I'll post it here on WS.

 

[FourthBase]

Yes, that's my point. I didn't "discover" the site, and I assume none of you here discovered it independent of "Jimmy Gibson's" posting about it either. So, as far as I can tell the "discoverer" of the site (in the sense of someone who made its existence public) was this "Jimmy Gibson" poster on the Register.

It's a small point, unless Noreen is saying "Jimmy" - the discoverer of the site - is an investigator of hers, because if that is what she means to say it kind of validates the story "Jimmy" gave about how the photos ended up in Noreen Gosch's associates hands - and presumably in hers.

But um, Roy?
You were the one who brought the "Jimmy Gibson" post to our attention.

I don't know Noreen Gosch, as you seem to, so I didn't think it was my place to tell her about it and at the time I discovered that posting on the Register's site I had no idea if she already knew of the site or not.

I assume that none of us know Noreen (I don't know her), and none of us knew if she'd seen the pictures or knew of that site (I wasn't sure if she did). You would have been the first among us to have the chance, and you didn't send her the link and pics. To me that says a lot.

"Jimmy Gibson" is a troll. The ToS on this forum prevent me from saying who I believe the troll is. Needless to say, I think that if this whole thing was a prank, then "Jimmy Gibson" is the person who started the prank. "Jimmy Gibson" or actually the other screenname that troll used, "Jon". "Jon" posted 18 minutes before "Jimmy Gibson" with the exact same site. So it wasn't "Jimmy Gibson" who discovered the site, it was "Jon". I would think that someone who has repeatedly quoted the "Jimmy Gibson" post would have noticed that. But apparently you missed that, Roy. Odd. There was also serious troll activity on the Register blog that the webmaster had to fix. I guess someone was ridiculing Noreen under a variety of names. Hmmm.

That said, if the photos do depict her son, if Noreen received these photos in an email on the 26th and concocted an envelope/doorstep story to make it more newsworthy, then who can blame her? Just because the photos weren't Polaroids left on her doorstep doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't a lead in the case, sent to her by someone in the know. In fact, if the photos were left physically on her doorstep, then there'd be no direction to the lead. It would just be mysterious evidence. However, what if they were sent in order to draw attention to that sick site? i.e., If you're looking for the perps responsible for Johnny's kidnapping, follow this site.

 

[Mrs_Norwood]

I decided to type in "Johnny Gosch" in the myspace.com search engine and it got one hit.

Click here

The guy, named Adam doesn't look like Johnny at all. You can click on his pic and make it bigger. The guy puts that he's of African descent (obviously not), but he looks like a kidder cause he also put his dates that he's atteneding college as 1950 to 1966. What caught my attention was this "Looking to for others who like me had their face on the back of a milk carton in the 80s. Where did we all go?" I don't know what this guy means by saying that unless he's just some college guy goofing off.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Mrs Norwood said: "unless he's just some college guy goofing off"

Grrrr! As I stated elsewhere on this site, people making a joke out of missing children really makes me angry!

It is true that a "Jon" mentioned the pedo site in the post immediately preceeding the "Jimmy Gibson" posting on the register. That one was very offensive and seemed void of any useful info so I ignored it. However, I did post the link to the Register's blog - not a link to "Jimmy's" posting, so anyone who wasn't simply racing to find and post a url I deliberately left out because it was likely to contain offensive material, would have read through "Jon's" post before they got to "Jimmy's".

It is possible that the photos are nothing more than some idiot's prank, as "Jon" suggests. If so, the person responsible should be hung - IMO.
I'm on record here, and elsewhere on the net, stating that my anger over the mockery Gosch=Gannon and other theories about this case has made of the tragedy of missing children, is what motivated me to delve into every publicly accessible detail of the case and the theories surrounding it - and ultimately to focus on the need for Paul Bonacci to demonstrate his repentance by offering to plead guilty to what he has confessed doing.

Bonacci may be lying, of course, in his "confession" - but if that turns out to be the case, then I'm going to be more than angry. I'll be apoplectic about it, because it would mean his lie was the basis for all the trivializing speculations (I exempt this forum and its members from that judgement) that have come after it. That would make Bonacci the Grand Master prankster.

 

[FourthBase]

"It is true that a "Jon" mentioned the pedo site in the post immediately preceeding the "Jimmy Gibson" posting on the register. That one was very offensive and seemed void of any useful info so I ignored it."

No. Look at the size of the "Jimmy Gibson" post. It would have taken about 15 minutes to write it. Whatever troll wrote the "Jimmy Gibson" post also wrote the "Jon" post 18 minutes earlier. The question is: Is this some ordinary troll, or a troll in the know? Is this troll behind the prank?

Roy, what do you say to the common sense conclusion that "Jimmy Gibson" = "Jon"?

 

[Roy Harrold]

Pcarpent - Michael Corbin, Noreen Gosch and Rothstein have all claimed to be in contact with "their" Jimmy Gibson. Corbin claims to have had contact with this person for the past two years:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006609010385

One of these three at least ought to be able to find out, from their Gibson, if he was the person who posted on the Register's blog or not. We might have to wait and see if they will make any statements about that or not - but they might never comment on it either, so...

If "Jimmy Gibson" on the Register site is the same person as "Jon" on that site, then the photos and those postings could all be a hoax. Noreen Gosch, however, seems more certain than ever that the photos really are of her son and are not a hoax - and you would think she would have no problem getting confirmation or denial from her Gibson if he is the Register's Gibson or not. That is why I posed the question - what is Noreen trying to say when she says "This site was discovered by our investigators"?

I will try calling the Register tomorrow (September 20th). I don't expect they will be willing to violate the privacy of people who post messages to their blogsite, but they might be willing to go on record as to; whether the "Jimmy" posting and the "Jon" posting had the same ISP and point of origin, or at least what country those two messages were posted from. I'll try asking for that info.

 

[William R Thomas]

I decided to type in "Johnny Gosch" in the myspace.com search engine and it got one hit.

Click here

The guy, named Adam doesn't look like Johnny at all. You can click on his pic and make it bigger. The guy puts that he's of African descent (obviously not), but he looks like a kidder cause he also put his dates that he's atteneding college as 1950 to 1966. What caught my attention was this "Looking to for others who like me had their face on the back of a milk carton in the 80s. Where did we all go?" I don't know what this guy means by saying that unless he's just some college guy goofing off.

Something tells me that if JG is alive, he is not listening to Godspeed! You Black Emperor

 

[HeartofTexas]

that he's atteneding college as 1950 to 1966.

Something also tells me he wasn't attending college during the above 16 years, since he hadn't yet been born!

 

[Pcarpent]

That would make Bonacci the Grand Master prankster.

This whole business somewhat reminds me of New Orleans DA Jim Garrison's 1969 prosecution of businessman Clay Shaw for involvement in the JFK Assassination - Kevin Costner played Garrison in the "JFK" film. The case was a ridiculous farce, and fell apart pretty quickly after the trial started, but the wild allegations and confessions have tainted serious assassination investigations until this day. A sad parallel to this case.

 

[christine2448]

Hiya, ya'll, been lurkin in this case...was wondering....could someone who is familiar do a quick timeline and a who's who in the case for us newbies...I'm so confused right now. Sometimes it's nice on a long thread to every now and then post up timeline to this point, and who all is involved...anyone?

 

[Roy Harrold]

Pcarpent - I understand the parallel you are drawing and agree with the gist of it.

However...guess what? I'm a big Jim Garrison fan! I didn't care for that movie, but I read his book "On The Trail Of The Assassins" and found much of it very compelling. I respect your opinion, too, though.

News for the day, now: A friend of mine talked to Investigator Nelson Zalva over the phone this morning. I'm told Zalva sounded very sincere and expressed frustration over the fact that none of the files they have down there, from that period, were ever computerized. He said that means there are thousands & thousands of files that would have to be gone through, and it doesn't sound like that's going to happen. My friend says Zalva had been hoping for someone in the public to come up with just one name, at which point the search could be conducted relatively quickly. Zalva also expressed deep sympathy for Norren Gosch and something like "I just cannot imagine what that mother is going through".

I spent the morning trying to track down someone at the Des Moines Register who could help with answering the questions I had about postings on their blogsite. I talked to a very nice woman, Ms Beasley, who indicated that they don't have the technological wherewithal to answer those kinds of questions with certainty. However, I'm still waiting to hear from one of their more techno-inclined people to see if that person was able to give me more definitive answers.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Christine - I would love to try to tackle that for you, but there is so much potential info, with so many different opinions about it and what it does or doesn't mean, that a motor-mouth like me would likely fill entire forums trying to express it all. Hopefully someone more succinct will come along. In the meantime - there are lots of good links peppered throughout this thread with lots of background info from different points of view.

Or - if you can be more specific about what you're not clear on, I'd give it a try.

 

[loganone]

Hiya, ya'll, been lurkin in this case...was wondering....could someone who is familiar do a quick timeline and a who's who in the case for us newbies...I'm so confused right now. Sometimes it's nice on a long thread to every now and then post up timeline to this point, and who all is involved...anyone?

Hiya Christine. I too am new here. I found two different timelines on the events. One is at www.johnnygosch.com
and the other is located on AMW website at http://amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=26170

This whole case is very confusing, and I think there is a little truth in all the thoeries that have ever been presented.

www.johnnygosch.com was updated today.

From one newbie to another - WELCOME!

 

[HeartofTexas]

Hi Christine! And welcome Loganone. Logan, Christine is only new to this thread... she's been around forever and has done almost 2,500 posts so far. And she's one of our skilled researchers.

I'm going to give a stab at summarizing this case... but it will definitely be just that... a summary. I'm not even going to attempt to put in all of the bizarre twists and turns.

In September of 1982, in Des Moines, Iowa, a 12-year old paperboy named Johnny Gosch was out delivering the Sunday paper. Basically, he's never been seen since*. Normally, his father accompanied him on his paper route but that particular day he didn't.

Over the years (24 years so far), various conspiracies as to Johnny's disappearance have emerged. The biggest is that he was abducted by a pedophile ring and forced to do "awful things". At various times following his disappearance, he is supposedly spotted in different parts of the country. One time there was a dollar bill found on a table in a restaurant saying something to the effect, "I'm alive, Johnny Gosch".

Some time in the late 80's, Paul Bonacci surfaces and says that he, too, was abducted and forced into prostitution and in a child pedophile ring that operated out of Nebraska. Bonacci says he helped abduct Johnny and other boys like him. Huge conspiracy theories have been spawned from some of Bonacci's stories of sexual abuse at the hands of high-powered people.

*Some time in the late 90's, I believe 1997, Noreen Gosch (Johnny's mom) says that Johnny showed up at her door in the middle of the night and stayed for about an hour or so. He, too, said that he had been held captive and forced into a life of sexual slavery. He asks her not to tell anyone he was there for fear everyone's life will be in jeopardy. She doesn't tell anyone until a couple of years later when she is under oath and testifying at something (sorry, my memory isn't good for some of the details). More conspiracy theories develop. Mrs. Gosch, who has left the porch light on for her son for all of those years, turns the porch light off after her son's visit.

In August of this year, some pix were supposedly left on Mrs. Gosch's porch of three children bound and gagged. She says one of them is Johnny. The pix are pretty clearly from the 80's, but we still don't know if the pix are real or faked, or whatever. Mrs. Gosch campaigned for better laws on missing children... and Johnny's picture is the first one to appear on milk cartons. She also helped change some of the laws on missing children.

There are many more details than this... but this is a summary!

 

[HollywoodBound]

On johnnygosch.com there is an update that says it has a picture of Jacob Wetterling with his hair dyed dark. Did anyone click the link? I'm afraid it's a child site so I don't want to click unless someone already has and knows it isn't.