Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #38

[Al Hoffman]

Only at this point voluntarily or by court order.

At this juncture, I don't think that getting a court order would be a problem; but good point.

Also, I agree with you that while Occam's razor can be a good general tool, it's not always right and that things can quickly turn into a hot mess for the oddest of reasons. It's the non-obvious problems that can really bite you in the butt, as those are the ones you don't (usually) plan for.

 

[kkdj]

I think it very possible Mollie knew CR or was acquainted with him. I doubt she ever considered his "legal" status. It sure wouldn't have crossed my mind at her age.

It wouldn't mine have either.
Do Iowa people have a tendency to look down on hispanic farm workers? Could he have been angry at the this?
It's not what I really think except for maybe a component. I really think this was more than likely a sex crime with murder......but did he want to do it to someone (not necessarily her) he experienced as the elite? And she became the easy target as she was out jogging?

 

[Stormy21]

They talked about hiring experts to include a forensic anthropologist, so I don’t think the remains would be released until that part is complete.

“State medical examiner Dennis Klein said in an interview the finding means a sharp-edged or pointed object such as a knife was used to attack Tibbetts. He declined comment on the details of her injuries, and said his office would hire consultants, including forensic anthropologists, to analyze her remains further and make additional findings.”

Who can keep up with DNA science? It moves incredibly fast. Blink and it has advanced.

Iowa's authorities are conscientious. There is always someone who knows more, so it is a good sign the state ME is willing to bring in super experts.

 

[Quill]

I thought his DNA came from Morgan Harrington's shirt, too. Supposedly found nearby where she was last seen.

No, her shirt was found on a bush along a street near some apartments. It was months later as I recall, which is why it was such a strange thing. I would have to re read but I believe they tested the shirt for Morgan's DNA to determine if was in fact hers because they feared it might be a sick joke or horrible coincidence. I cannot remember if JLM's DNA was on that shirt, but I think they had to have more than just proving he had contact with that shirt. I am going from memory here and have not checked these points.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

It wouldn't mine have either.
Do Iowa people have a tendency to look down on hispanic farm workers? Could he have been angry at the this?
It's not what I really think except for maybe a component. I really think this was more than likely a sex crime with murder......but did he want to do it to someone (not necessarily her) he experienced as the elite? And she became the easy target as she was out jogging?

I think he has been watching her for some time and he saw it as a chance to approach her that day.

 

[Stormy21]

At this juncture, I don't think that getting a court order would be a problem; but good point.

Also, I agree with you that while Occam's razor can be a good general tool, it's not always right and that things can quickly turn into a hot mess for the oddest of reasons. It's the non-obvious problems that can really bite you in the butt, as those are the ones you don't (usually) plan for.

This is not accurate. SCOTUS rulings indicate that if a suspect is arrested he is compelled to give a DNA sample. Like a mug shot and fingerprints.

If there has been no arrest, DNA is voluntary.

So if you are arrested for something serious, you are going to get your cheek swabbed.

 

[Stormy21]

The perfectly preserved foetus had been protected for four months at the bottom of a shipping channel. The uterus was one of the the last organs to decompose.

Are some of us freaking others out? Hope not.

 

[otto]

Or would it be more likely to assume it would have been someone close to her, therefore this is less Occam's Razor?

Part of Occam's razor is to eliminate that which can be eliminated. In this case, that included the elimination of everyone close to her. That which is left, no matter how unlikely, is what most likely happened.

She was grabbed by an opportunist in a car while running to her mother's house to collect her car and very likely eat brats. She was driven to a remote location, assaulted and murdered.

 

[kkdj]

Are some of us freaking others out? Hope not.

We be sleuthers! We know what we're in for!

 

[kkdj]

Part of Occam's razor is to eliminate that which can be eliminated. In this case, that included the elimination of everyone close to her. That which is left is what most likely happened.

YES! YES! YES!
the power and truth of the elimination process!

 

[otto]

Are some of us freaking others out? Hope not.

Nothing unusual in discussing how Mollie was found and what this means for DNA testing.

 

[Al Hoffman]

That's right. DNA is going to be recovered in almost all situations. The extraction and amplification techniques are getting pretty powerful now.

It looked like they cut and cleared the corn from around the area where the body was found, and took it away. I was wondering if that might have been for further forensic study. I wonder if the corn root systems could have taken up DNA markers from decomp liquification? Kinda out there, but.. However, I do think that you point about maggot DNA uptake evidence is interesting

I understand your point that DNA is pretty tuff stuff, but I am concerned that anaerobic bacterial putrafication, in a hot summer environment, could destroy any valid forensic DNA evidence. I'm waiting to see what additional charges, if any, are added before the end of this year.

 

[kkdj]

I think he has been watching her for some time and he saw it as a chance to approach her that day.

Yes. But did he want her because she was the elite in his mind of social awareness of the area?
I don't have an awareness of this. Where I am we are diverse with all races from all over the world. I personally like that. But I'm wondering what the social climate is there in rural Brooklyn IA and Rivera's perception as to who he picked for his crime?

 

[Jim G]

CR's clothing may be tres chic, but he's nothing more than an upright barbarian. The nature of evil is to destroy innocence.
His mind's not right.

 

[MassGuy]

Part of Occam's razor is to eliminate that which can be eliminated. In this case, that included the elimination of everyone close to her. That which is left, mo matter how unlikely, is what most likely happened.

She was grabbed by an opportunist in a car while running to her mother's house to collect her car and very likely eat brats. She was driven to a remote location, assaulted and murdered.

You’ve left out the early possibilities of drug cartels, MS13, Aliens, Bigfoot, and sex trafficking. Oh yeah, insomnia too.
But you’re spot on.

 

[Stormy21]

Part of Occam's razor is to eliminate that which can be eliminated. In this case, that included the elimination of everyone close to her. That which is left, no matter how unlikely, is what most likely happened.

She was grabbed by an opportunist in a car while running to her mother's house to collect her car and very likely eat brats. She was driven to a remote location, assaulted and murdered.

That is a no words wasted, excellent summary. Sad but true.

 

[otto]

Yes. But did he want her because she was the elite in his mind of social awareness of the area?
I don't have an awareness of this. Where I am we are diverse with all races from all over the world. I personally like that. But I'm wondering what the social climate is there in rural Brooklyn IA and Rivera's perception as to who he picked for his crime?

I've wondered the very same thing. Is his type of victim someone who looks like Mollie and who is affluent?

It might have nothing to do with Iowa, and more to do with his sense of who he is as an illegal hard working person in the USA, and he is resentful of young women who seem to have it all. Ted Bundy had that type of victim because of the woman who rejected him.

 

[Stormy21]

Maybe it is too much to hope for, but with video and digital cams everywhere, and the emergence of excellent DNA techniques and other high tech sleuthing tech, maybe those with tendencies to commit crimes will think twice. Maybe.

The hard core criminals no, but some may be deterred.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Maybe the corn stalks and the corn field helped protect her from the sun. The night temperagure was mid 50F to 62F. If she was protected from the sun, maybe the temperature was cooler on the ground. I don't know. Hopefully she was protected from the elements and there is DNA evidence and clear manner of death.

Unfortunately, shade in a hot environmentonly speeds up decomp. Bugs of all kind, micro and macro, don't like working out in the hot sun either. There was a great article up post (from the Weather Channel) that went into this.

 

[CheetosDust]

I can see that exact scenario, yes. I'm puzzled at the physics by which the piece landed on his lap. I can't figure out how- after he had got back in the car after placing her in the trunk (standing and walking then sitting back down)- the piece magically appeared on his lap. For me that defies physics, as it would have fallen off had he stood up, which he had, prior to getting back in the driver's seat. Does that make sense? Maybe it was on the console? And he had moved his right arm to the right, in toward his torso, which made it fall on his lap?

Maybe he smacked her head so hard that it broke and flew into his sleeve or other part of his clothing and then fell out on his lap.