IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #39

[Deleted member 227095]

Looks like "diminished responsibility" is allowed in Iowa to negate specific intent in first degree murder cases like this one.



FindLaw's Court of Appeals of Iowa case and opinions.

How does someone with a 7th grade education come up with the idea of 'black out' to support the idea of diminished responsiblity at the time the interview for the arrest document is prepared? Seems quite improbable. Does anyone know at what point the perp had access to counsel? Did he have access to counsel prior to making statement to LE? The 'black out' statement in the arrest document has bothered me from the second I first read the document. Who comes up with that on their own? I wonder if counsel interferred and pushed this view with perp? Entire concept seems far fetched and legally quite convenient.

 

[wary]

I had never even entertained this thought until just now, and I have thought all along that CR will plead not guilty, and that this will go to trial. But...many here have noted that Mollie's dad, Rob, has been remarkably compassionate in his comments, including at her service yesterday, talking about doing what Mollie would do (paraphrasing). Anyone think he and the family would let CR plead to a lesser charge, either 2nd degree murder, or even voluntary manslaughter, to avoid a trial if CR admits to doing something in anger and expresses remorse? Were it me, I would want him punished to the fullest extent of the law, but I have already determined that Rob is a better man than I am. JMO

I hope, as a matter of principle, that RT and other family members do not have the ability to influence the charges that CR faces.

I don't know how the Iowa legal system works, but if it follows that of other states that I'm familiar with, CR's crime is against: "the people of the state of Iowa." Mollie's family has the power to personally forgive, but they, in my opinion, do not and should not have the ability to influence the nature of the charges.

Note that voluntary manslaughter charges would allow him to get out of prison while he's young and strong and easily able to murder other girls.

 

[whiskers]

Since he waived the preliminary hearing we likely will not know more until motions are filed in the case. If the prosecution and defense are cooperating with each other we'll see fewer motions but cases can get contentious and you can read between the lines if the defense starts making motions about evidence not being turned over promptly, etc. Sometimes those motions will reveal a bit of info about the type of evidence in the case.

Thank you! Your response was very helpful.

 

[TL4S]

I think you were right. Many, many criminal defense attorneys would take this type of case for the publicity. At any point you can get your client declared indigent (no question in this case) and the state will start paying your costs and fees. If you are a small town criminal lawyer taking in $50k a year, this type of publicity is life changing: you're a household name in Iowa, even nationally. If you do a good job murderers across the country will be looking for you to help on their cases. Rich murderers who can pay for private attorneys.

Do you think Fitbit or cell phone data will be used in court?

 

[Homeschool Mom]

Conversely, I highly doubt RT would allow a plea that would leave the remotest possibility that CR could be released during his sons’s lifetimes. I’m certain RT wouldn’t want to leave his sons the responsibility of one day attending parole hearings.

Whatever they decide is up to them but I have a feeling Mr. Tibbetts will do what he can to protect his sons and family. Trials are brutal! If you have never been involved in one trust me. They are very hard or a family and he has young sons to consider.
What I have seen of him...he will do what is best for them all.

​

 

[Hatfield]

How does someone with a 7th grade education come up with the idea of 'black out' to support the idea of diminished responisiblity. Does anyone know at what point the perp had access to counsel? Did he have access to counsel prior to making statement to LE? The 'black out' statement in the arrest document has bothered me from the second I first read the document. Who comes up with that on their own? I wonder if counsel interferred and pushed this view with perp? Entire concept seems far fetched and legally quite convenient.

JMO
Good observation and I also have been intrigued by that. Seems awful convenient that he happened to come up with a story that gives him some possible defense strategies.

 

[Jealoushe]

If he is lying about anything he could be lying about the ear buds. I would not take anything he has said at face value.

 

[Alethea]

Doesnt he have to make a plea at some point soon? Either a not guilty plea or a guilty plea?

He didnt enter a plea at the initial hearing and I always thought a defendent has to enter a plea to the charges sometime soon?

Yeah they move onto the arraignment. It should happen soon, it will be just like the first hearing - 1 or 2 minutes - but they will ask how he pleads. If it is significantly delayed it could mean the state and defense are working out a deal but it is almost never this early. Both sides want a chance to look at the results of any forensics.

 

[The Farm]

How does someone with a 7th grade education come up with the idea of 'black out' to support the idea of diminished responsiblity at the time the interview for the arrest document is prepared? Seems quite improbable. Does anyone know at what point the perp had access to counsel? Did he have access to counsel prior to making statement to LE? The 'black out' statement in the arrest document has bothered me from the second I first read the document. Who comes up with that on their own? I wonder if counsel interferred and pushed this view with perp? Entire concept seems far fetched and legally quite convenient.

He had counsel for 5 weeks, not legal counsel but his own.

 

[whiskers]

JMO
Good observation and I also have been intrigued by that. Seems awful convenient that he happened to make up a story that gives him some possible defense strategies.

That bothered me, too. Thus I brought it up a few days ago. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had help making up that story. He also had 5 weeks to Google his heart away.

 

[Jealoushe]

Question. Why didn't he flee to Mexico? He could have said his father was sick and he had to go if he needed an excuse to get out of town. One that would not cast suspicion on him.

They had no idea it was a Hispanic Farm Worker so I don't think his absence would have made headlines.

He thought he got away with it. Maybe he did it before so he was confident. Or he’s not just a psychopath, who thinks he’s smarter than everyone.

He was not hiding, like many killers before him.

 

[Alethea]

Curious what makes you think that Iowa State Prosecutors will do a good job? A single charge with no fall back? I'm not seeing the Prosecution strategy here at all unless more charges will be added as evidence becomes available.

I don't think you can judge the prosecutors at all at this point. They had two days to put together a case without any forensic testing or even an autopsy. They can only charge what they are sure of at that time, and they can add charges later. CR was arrested at the same time the body was recovered. We can't compare this to cases where LE and prosecutors investigate for 6 months and put together a solid case and just need to catch the suspect linked to evidence at the crime scene. All of that work is ahead of us, and ongoing right now.

 

[TL4S]

JMO
Good observation and I also have been intrigued by that. Seems awful convenient that he happened to make up a story that gives him some possible defense strategies.

Unrelated, but IMO, a 7th grade education doesn't necessarily equate to low intelligence.

 

[gliving]

I disagree. You can't pay for this type of national publicity. Jose Baez went from a no-name DUI lawyer to representing NFL players after Casey Anthony. You or I may not take this type of case, but there are plenty of ambulance chasers who would.

Alethea, any chance we'll see a nolo contendere plea? Is that even possible with a 1st degree murder charge? tia

 

[Deleted member 227095]

Not to be fascious, but what about dissociative fugue states associated with PTSD. The abused become the abusers, or so I am told.

The Daily Mail reported that his parents ride donkeys to their agrarian jobs. Sounds nuts, but remember that NAFTA destroyed the Mexican economy at the time, because Mexican farmers could not afford to grow even subsistence corn crops cheaper than American corn shipped into the country. CR comes from a village of 500 people that is nothing like anything we are remotely familiar with in this country, not in this century, or maybe in the one before that. It is a completely different world, with different rules and norms, rampant crime and corruption in some areas. Less than 100 years ago the Mexican government hunted down and killed native mesoamericans who looked like CR (The Yaqui wars). This does not justify anything that CR has done, but please recall that his cultural milieu is radically different than ours, and that attempting to look at his psychology from our POV might be more of a stretch than we might realize. To layer on top of this abnormal psych manifestations, and a search for rational explanations in the face of irrational and prurient behaviors could make for a trip down the rabbit hole, a dark, confusing and frightening place!

All possibly true. But don't you think the impact of his being in the US for a long-ish period of time might have had an impact on his current psychology? He has supposedly been in the US from the time he was relatively our. It is unclear if he ever went to school in the US but he would have been quite small when he 'left' Mexico so not sure how much he would remember.

 

[Deleted member 227095]

Unrelated, but IMO, a 7th grade education doesn't necessarily equate to low intelligence.

Absolutely true but how much knowledge would have had of the US legal system? I've searched online to see if anyone knows whether he ever went to school in the US as he has been in the US since he was of school age. No info so far as I can tell. Not sure he knows much if anything about the US and its legal system. We just don't know.

 

[Alethea]

Do you think Fitbit or cell phone data will be used in court?

I do, either to help prove the facts of the case or at the least to rebut any defense argument that LE did not investigate other subjects. LE spent a month chasing the data and at the end of the day the totality of the evidence pointed to CR.

 

[Alethea]

Alethea, any chance we'll see a nolo contendere plea? Is that even possible with a 1st degree murder charge? tia

No way. In practice that's the type of plea prosecutors will allow in white-collar cases to help defendants avoid associated civil liability. I don't think it really comes up in violent crimes.

 

[Deleted member 227095]

In the pictures I've seen, the perp's well-groomed, with hair, beard and eyebrows well-tended. I think he saw himself as attractive to women, but he doesn't look very happy in the SM photo of IM, their baby, and himself. The New York Times (How the Suspect in Mollie Tibbetts’s Death Built a Life in an Iowa Farm Town) interviewed one of Mollie's schoolmates, who said he had made advances toward her and would contacting her online as late as 3 a.m., and that she knew he had approached other women as well. Perhaps he thought his chances of upward mobility (and legal status) might be improved if he found a local American girl to romance and perhaps marry. Or maybe he was known to the local Latina women as someone to stay away from.

NYT Article is interesting. Does anyone know if the X-GF/Babby Momma is a citizen?

 

[RANCH]

He had counsel for 5 weeks, not legal counsel but his own.

He did have plenty of time to come up with whatever he felt was the best for himself if confronted by LE. JMO