IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #39

[EaglesSpeical]

Typically, pro bono work is not a case of this magnitude, so I think that’s unlikely. Further, most defense attorneys have no interest in writing books about their cases. Murder trials are hours and hours of complicated, stressful work. It’s not the type of thing one usually does for a reduced fee, unless you’re working for the Innocence Project or another advocacy group.

If Iowa was paying, it would be because the attorneys were court appointed and that would be part of the public record, which doesn’t seem to be the case here. It’s either CR’s family, or others who are footing the sizable bill.

Fair enough. I do civil work so not as up on the criminal defense side. Totally agree any complex trial, civil or criminal very stressful and hours and hours of work. Agreed most pro bono assignments start out as less significant matter but sometimes morph into a complex case. Not sure what going hourly rate is in Iowa but not NYC or LA rates I would imagine. Regardless they are on the case it is a good thing as this case needs competent attorneys on all sides it is not a simple case IMHO. thanks for the input!

 

[TL4S]

There's also that small detail on the arrest warrant where the box for "known date and time of incident" is filled: No.

YES!

 

[Hatfield]

The drop would show, but the detail isn't really there. It's possible that Fitbit corporate could pull more details than the app shows. I've had my fitbit drop my heart rate temporarily occasionally for who knows what reason, and if they get too wet and they aren't the waterproof kind, they can just quit. Also, I don't know if it has been determined for certain whether Mollie had the type that kept a heart rate or not. I saw somewhere where it said she had an Alta, but there is the regular Alta and the Alta HR. The regular Alta doesn't detect heartrate. I'm attaching how the windows app shows my heartrate.

JMO
I dont have a fitbit but one thing I am guessing is the perp was not smart enough to realize she had one on her wrist. I am guessing that he thought it was a regular watch.

Early on we talked a lot about what Fitbit information that LE could get through the cell phone connection. But if the perp left the Fitbit on her arm then when LE found the body they would be able to get all the information possible and likely would include the exact moment her heart stopped beating. I think this is how LE was able to put the exact ending time range time of 20:28pm in the arrest warrant of her murder.

I think once they found her body they were able to get the Fitbit off her arm and download all the information. The fitbit would have kept working even if her heart stopped so they would be able to pinpoint the exact time pulse stopped. The battery would finally run out but if on her arm then LE charges it up and downloads all the data.

This is assuming the model she had was the type to give heart pulse rate. And assuming it was still on her wrist when they got to her body.

 

[Al Hoffman]

I had never even entertained this thought until just now, and I have thought all along that CR will plead not guilty, and that this will go to trial. But...many here have noted that Mollie's dad, Rob, has been remarkably compassionate in his comments, including at her service yesterday, talking about doing what Mollie would do (paraphrasing). Anyone think he and the family would let CR plead to a lesser charge, either 2nd degree murder, or even voluntary manslaughter, to avoid a trial if CR admits to doing something in anger and expresses remorse? Were it me, I would want him punished to the fullest extent of the law, but I have already determined that Rob is a better man than I am. JMO

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!! And the State prosecutor would not allow or do this unless the State's case became a hot mess!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Alethea]

Typically, pro bono work is not a case of this magnitude, so I think that’s unlikely. Further, most defense attorneys have no interest in writing books about their cases. Murder trials are hours and hours of complicated, stressful work. It’s not the type of thing one usually does for a reduced fee, unless you’re working for the Innocence Project or another advocacy group.

If Iowa was paying, it would be because the attorneys were court appointed and that would be part of the public record, which doesn’t seem to be the case here. It’s either CR’s family, or others who are footing the sizable bill, IMO.

I disagree. You can't pay for this type of national publicity. Jose Baez went from a no-name DUI lawyer to representing NFL players after Casey Anthony. You or I may not take this type of case, but there are plenty of ambulance chasers who would.

 

[Sconnie]

If we believe his story, and pick where it ends and begins...
When MT reached for her phone, they were both running, he lost it "Redding out" and tackled MT to the ground, and slammed her head into the ground to stun her, creating the head wound and bleed noted on arrest warrant. He then dragged the now stunned/unconscious MT to the car. While attempting to load her into the trunk she comes to and fights like a wildcat. Fearing that he is loosing control, he grabs something sharp and pointy out of the trunk and stabs her repeatedly to subdue her. Once she is subded, he looks at what he has done, takes her offending phone, and closes the trunk (The ear buds are wrapped up in his non-dominant hand as he held her by the throat in an attempt to control her). He gets in the car to get the hell out of Dodge, and shakes an ear bud into his lap as he starts to steer the car. MT, in the trunk, dies of her wounds as he leaves/passes through the 1900 block of 385th Ave. CR drives by or passes near the deserted hog farm while looking for a place to deal with MT...whatever happened he turned the phone off before he reached the cornfield and saw the ear bud in his lap, looked in the trunk and found MT dead. The rest of the story is per the arrest warrant.
MOO
What do you think

I have tried to imagine this scenario as well, and the best I can come up with is that he pulled up ahead of her and opened the trunk. Then, he jogged back to her and ran with her (if he is to be believed) with the open trunk, laying in wait.

I have a hard time imagining how he could have gotten her into the car, trunk or back seat if she was conscious. Your possibility fits!

 

[Stormy21]

IMO because he thought he had gotten away with it, circling around and coming upon her on an isolated stretch of road with no one on sight, having no idea his car had been videotaped prior to that at a residence earlier on her route going back and forth following her. And doing her in and disposing of her body in a corn field covered up, which was also not in sight of anyone. As the days and weeks went by with no one suspecting him, he thought he was in the clear.

LE said in the PC last week when they announced his arrest that they had only been looking at him / interviewed him in the previous 24 to 36 hours - apparently they had gone over hundreds of hours of videos from the area and thousands of tips, and the video from the residence earlier in her run that was turned in at some point showed his car that they tracked down to him.

The United States has an extradition treaty with Mexico. The suspect can flee, but he would have been likely caught in Mexico.

 

[bcom32]

If we believe his story, and pick where it ends and begins...
When MT reached for her phone, they were both running, he lost it "Redding out" and tackled MT to the ground, and slammed her head into the ground to stun her, creating the head wound and bleed noted on arrest warrant. He then dragged the now stunned/unconscious MT to the car. While attempting to load her into the trunk she comes to and fights like a wildcat. Fearing that he is loosing control, he grabs something sharp and pointy out of the trunk and stabs her repeatedly to subdue
What do you think

I ageee with your scenario, the exception being I think she was still alive at cornfield. Likely unsconscious at initial abduction on 365, but I think odds are high she was still alive in trunk, and killer did whatever at the cornfield before hiding body. Unthinkable to imagine MTs fate to such a coward, . I agree she didn’t go down without a fight. She’s a HERO, just as her dad described!

 

[The Farm]

The United States has an extradition treaty with Mexico. The suspect can flee, but he would have been likely caught in Mexico.

That's only if they can find them.

 

[whiskers]

Will all info or new findings now be on lockdown and only come out at trial? I believe that’s what happened when I followed the Hannah Graham case. But I know there are other cases where more came out in the media even before a trial.

 

[Deleted member 227095]

That Supermax is a Federal facility. Which is one reason I keep opining for a Federal murder prosecution over State! But, by the Constitution and the 10th Amendment, Iowa has primacy and will do a great job with CR's conviction and subsequent life incarciration.

Curious what makes you think that Iowa State Prosecutors will do a good job? A single charge with no fall back? I'm not seeing the Prosecution strategy here at all unless more charges will be added as evidence becomes available.

 

[Alethea]

Will all info or new findings now be on lockdown and only come out at trial? I believe that’s what happened when I followed the Hannah Graham case. But I know there are other cases where more came out in the media even before a trial.

Since he waived the preliminary hearing we likely will not know more until motions are filed in the case. If the prosecution and defense are cooperating with each other we'll see fewer motions but cases can get contentious and you can read between the lines if the defense starts making motions about evidence not being turned over promptly, etc. Sometimes those motions will reveal a bit of info about the type of evidence in the case.

 

[Deleted member 227095]

If he's so shameful, why did he not lead LE to her body far sooner for Mollie's sake and that of her family? He confessed because he got caught and because all roads pointed to him and that car, and even then he did not give up any details of his crime. She said something that caused his anger, he saw that her head was bleeding, her ear piece was just suddenly in his lap. Ted Bundy once said something to the effect that he was sorry, or it was tragic, or whatever, that these women "were harmed". As if he was not the cause and was merely observing how awful from a distance.

I don't know what the DSM 'diagnosis' is here, but I call it a lack of conscience from the point of his stalking, to abduction, to Mollie was found decomposing in a cornfield. He knows he did all of that yet he sat out an extensive, expensive and meticulous investigation until he could no longer hide.

Sociopath perhaps? Huge DSM category.

 

[Hatfield]

Since he waived the preliminary hearing we likely will not know more until motions are filed in the case. If the prosecution and defense are cooperating with each other we'll see fewer motions but cases can get contentious and you can read between the lines if the defense starts making motions about evidence not being turned over promptly, etc. Sometimes those motions will reveal a bit of info about the type of evidence in the case.

Doesnt he have to make a plea at some point soon? Either a not guilty plea or a guilty plea?

He didnt enter a plea at the initial hearing and I always thought a defendent has to enter a plea to the charges sometime soon?

 

[Deleted member 227458]

He may have thought he’d gotten away with it, or he may not have had the means.

In the Vanessa Marcotte case, the suspect willingly took a DNA test and hung around for the results, which he knew would implicate him.

Who knows why these guys don’t flee?

CR is not exactly MENSA material, that's for sure.
Evil people aren't all brilliant, in fact a lot of them are actually quite stupid.

 

[MassGuy]

The United States has an extradition treaty with Mexico. The suspect can flee, but he would have been likely caught in Mexico.

The advantage of fleeing to Mexico is greater in death penalty cases. Mexico will extradite in those circumstances, but only after assurances that the suspect will not face the death penalty.

 

[Stormy21]

Curious what makes you think that Iowa State Prosecutors will do a good job? A single charge with no fall back? I'm not seeing the Prosecution strategy here at all unless more charges will be added as evidence becomes available.

I do not know about the State prosecutors, but prosecutors in the federal Northern Iowa District state they had a 97% conviction rate in 2017.

 

[Jaclin]

Just a few reasons to waive prelim.....


The reasons the defense might waive the right to a preliminary hearing include:

The defendant intends to plead guilty and wants to avoid publicity (and expense, if the defendant is represented by private counsel).

The defendant is guilty of more than the charged offenses and fears further charges from the potentially damning evidence that may come out at the preliminary hearing. Also, if the facts of the case are particularly nasty, and the defendant plans to plead guilty anyway, the less the sentencing judge hears about the facts, the better for the defendant.

The prosecution’s case is strong, and the defense fears that prosecution witnesses may become so entrenched in their positions once they testify under oath at a prelim that they may become angry (or angrier) with the defendant and possibly refuse later interviews requested by the defense as it prepares for trial.


Or to stall, hoping the case drags on and witnesses become less reliable, but I don’t think we have witnesses in this case that we know of yet!


When does it make sense to waive the preliminary hearing?

So, the purpose of a preliminary hearing is to decide if there is enough evidence to go to trial. Leading police to a missing person's body and admitting you were following behind them while they were jogging is pretty damning. His attorneys knew the judge would continue to court and CR probably can't afford to pay them enough to waste their time on a preliminary hearing.

 

[bcom32]

Does anyone know if yesterday’s service was ever posted? Would like to listen to RTs speech. What a class act for Mollie, family & community as a whole!

 

[Alethea]

Fair enough. I do civil work so not as up on the criminal defense side. Totally agree any complex trial, civil or criminal very stressful and hours and hours of work. Agreed most pro bono assignments start out as less significant matter but sometimes morph into a complex case. Not sure what going hourly rate is in Iowa but not NYC or LA rates I would imagine. Regardless they are on the case it is a good thing as this case needs competent attorneys on all sides it is not a simple case IMHO. thanks for the input!

I think you were right. Many, many criminal defense attorneys would take this type of case for the publicity. At any point you can get your client declared indigent (no question in this case) and the state will start paying your costs and fees. If you are a small town criminal lawyer taking in $50k a year, this type of publicity is life changing: you're a household name in Iowa, even nationally. If you do a good job murderers across the country will be looking for you to help on their cases. Rich murderers who can pay for private attorneys.