IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #40

[Jealoushe]

Mollie's dad says she's a fighter. She would fight back. We may never know because his co-workers are scared and worried, but I wonder if anyone saw anything different with CR the next day. Scratches, swollen jaw, etc. A fight would show that.

It’s unfortunate because that type of thing would be so easy to hide on a farm. A lot of farm workers wear long shirts and pants, hats, boots etc. And you don’t necessarily work close to anyone, close enough for someone to notice anyway.

 

[Jealoushe]

Face up really proves nothing as the same could be said for face down.

Yeah, didn’t mean to say it proved anything, it was just moo.

 

[Confusion]

Wow, trying to imagine that scenario. Would end up arguing throughout the whole thing! But seriously, others have thought this possible too. After all, they could not see who was in the car. But, I would imagine IF there were two, that Rivera would be trying to pin it on " the other guy."

Maybe not if the other guy was the violent one and CR was the one who liked to watch/look. Everybody keeps saying that you can't believe anything he says, so why believe that he's the one who approached her or anything else? Would being afraid of getting locked up with the other guy be enough to keep him from mentioning him? I don't believe this is true either, still trying to show ways they could show reasonable doubt. Not that it would matter much in this scenario, I believe he'd be considered just as guilty if he was driving and assisted in any way. MOO

 

[whiskers]

It’s unfortunate because that type of thing would be so easy to hide on a farm. A lot of farm workers wear long shirts and pants, hats, boots etc. And you don’t necessarily work close to anyone, close enough for someone to notice anyway.

True, but it would show up on his face. Maybe he didn't go to the local mini-mart- Casey's for a few days. He can disguise on his body, harder on the face.

 

[Kapua]

Peterson now has an appeal based on several factors including ineffective counsel. All a defense is required to do is refute the actual evidence. Their job is NOT to present such a ludicrous theory that the jury becomes biased against them.

It was not my intention to suggest that presenting ludicrous theories is the defense attorneys' job. My point was that it has been done, not just in the Peterson case, and my prediction is that CR's attorneys will present some type of far-fetched SODDI theory. MOO

 

[Jealoushe]

True, but it would show up on his face. Maybe he didn't go to the local mini-mart- Casey's for a few days. He can disguise on his body, harder on the face.

Agreed. Hat on and head down at work... not so easy in public

 

[MyBelle]

It was not my intention to suggest that presenting ludicrous theories is the defense attorneys' job. My point was that it has been done, not just in the Peterson case, and my prediction is that CR's attorneys will present some type of far-fetched SODDI theory. MOO

My point is that it has been done and had disastrous outcomes. Surely attorneys learn from the past mistakes made in high profile case.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Do you know why additional qualifying charges weren’t indicated at the onset?

I would opine that the arrest warrant was prepared while CBR was in custody for less than 24 hours, and the body was just being collected from the field. Murder One without additional qualifying charges was the strongest hand that the LEO could document without guessing, overstepping and/or purjurying himself on the warrant application. Sure, at that time the swearing LEO has some strong ideas about what else happened to MT, but he lacked firm evidence until the autopsy, and forensic search of the car and more are completed. When he wrote this warrant, the body was just being collected from the field. There was enough video and FitBit evidence, and confession, to form a firm basis for the charge as stated on the warrant. Later evidence can provide for further developed charges that the procescuter can consider for use in his trial strategy, which may change as more facts become evident over time. LE's job at that point was to simply develop the best charge possible and arrest CBR without giving the defense something to later point to as "created" or false and otherwise weaken the State's case. Everything else is the System's job and over the LEO's pay grade, in this high profile a case.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Money has absolutely nothing to do with it. The US does exactly the same for US citizens arrested in Mexico and other countries. All countries have an obligation to make sure their citizens are treated fairly by other governments.

Remember when Trump used his political powers to get some certain basketball players released from jail in China? He didn't just provide them consular services. He demanded the Chinese just release them and let them go scot-free. Complaining about foreign governments helping their citizens who are imprisoned in the US, when we have a president that demands that American criminals be released from foreign prisons, is not logical.



Arrest of a U.S. Citizen | U.S. Embassy & Consulates in Mexico

Who is complaining? Nobody is complaining. Please don't turn this into a political discussion.

 

[Karmakazi]

Mollie wasn't seen on the cameras. Just the car.

Wrong.
"A critical break in the case was finding a local person with security cameras showing Tibbetts jogging, Rahn said.

"Through that we were able to identify a vehicle that we believed belonged to Mr. Rivera," Rahn said.

"From that we were able to track his patterns and the routes that he took. We were also able to find Mollie running on this video and we were able to determine that he was one of the last ones to have seen Mollie running."

Body found believed to be missing Iowa jogger; murder charge filed

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I've thought that as well. This past week I keep thinking of Jesse Matthews and pleading guilty to murdering both Morgan Harrigton and Hannah Graham. (probably others as well and we may never know.) No trial and he keeps all of his secrets.

So I went back to where I was a few years ago and found this article: Jesse Matthew Pleads Guilty to Murders of Harrington and Graham

What stands out to me when I read this again with fresh eyes is this quote: "Graham's left nasal bone had piece of a bone that was broken away, and that she likely died by strangulation or suffocation. It appeared the UVA student fought back, as witnesses told investigators that Matthew had a swollen jaw at work immediately after the time she was murdered."

Mollie's dad says she's a fighter. She would fight back. We may never know because his co-workers are scared and worried, but I wonder if anyone saw anything different with CR the next day. Scratches, swollen jaw, etc. A fight would show that.

He worked in a labor intensive job. Any injuries would be easily explained by the job.

 

[Jim G]

idea of using car to run her over or otherwise box her in...doesn't seem plausible that he'd park and exit his car, only to start jogging beside her...that sounds like a Hollywood movie

 

[whiskers]

He worked in a labor intensive job. Any injuries would be easily explained by the job.

But his face would tell a different story. I grew up in the midwest- dairy and corn. We normally didn't see men with swollen jaws. On the body would easily be explained and concealed, but I feel a swollen face or a black eye out of the ordinary would stand out. But his co-workers may not say anything or even notice.

 

[Warwick7]

Yikes!!! ( part about sitting on her) etc, etc. .. Good points. No telling what this creep did. The cell phone thing is really incredible to me. Can't imagine why in the world he wouldn't immediately turn it off or destroy , disable it, or whatever. How could he NOT know it would leave a trail? The whole thing( according to him) started with her the threats to call police. Getting rid of the evidence right away would be the most logical thing to do.I don't get it. Edited because I made so many mistakes. ( I always see other people explaining the reason for editing but this is the first time I have done it. If I did it every time it would be longer than the post.)

I haven't had a chance to read the last two pages of this thread. However, some phones you can't figure out HOW to turn them off. Also like mine you have to have my pin to even get in it.

 

[Warwick7]

I've thought that as well. This past week I keep thinking of Jesse Matthews and pleading guilty to murdering both Morgan Harrigton and Hannah Graham. (probably others as well and we may never know.) No trial and he keeps all of his secrets.

So I went back to where I was a few years ago and found this article: Jesse Matthew Pleads Guilty to Murders of Harrington and Graham

What stands out to me when I read this again with fresh eyes is this quote: "Graham's left nasal bone had piece of a bone that was broken away, and that she likely died by strangulation or suffocation. It appeared the UVA student fought back, as witnesses told investigators that Matthew had a swollen jaw at work immediately after the time she was murdered."

Mollie's dad says she's a fighter. She would fight back. We may never know because his co-workers are scared and worried, but I wonder if anyone saw anything different with CR the next day. Scratches, swollen jaw, etc. A fight would show that.

Excellent post!

 

[MsBetsy]

Someone asked if the killer leaving Mollie face up meant anything. I think it's an interesting question because sometimes how victims are found lying or posed can give clues to the mindset of the killer. In this case, I'm not convinced of any significance to how she was lying. There might have been more significance if she was placed face down. The site I looked at discussed a certain type of killer that will not leave his victims face up and the reasoning is discussed in the text. I believe it's a manual about serial killers that someone has typed up on the internet. The credits and source information are on the bottom. There is only one instance of "face up" in the manual, so it can easily be searched by control+F in firefox.
Signature Killers

Wow, I almost missed this, as I was about to go to bed! So freaky! Even the fluorescent purple with black background. I think this sounds very much like the " anger retaliation killer." Although it did say the victim is usually turned on side or back, it also said, if left on her back, he will cover her eyes, which we know he did with the cornstalks. The most interesting detail that jumped out at me was the fact that " The anger retaliation killer NEEDS A SPECIFIC EVENT WITH EACH VICTIM AS A SPUR TO THE ATTACK EVEN IF HE HAS SET IT UP CONSCIOUSLY. I would have put that in bold but I dont know how. Anyway, pretty close to what occurred, if at all true, that the fact that the victim threatened to call police is what angered him and sent him into a violent rage. Also interesting how it describes a knife or sharp object as a sexual tool and the carelessness about cleaning up afterwards. If this is true about Rivera, there must be plenty of evidence for LE to find. JMO

 

[Kapua]

It’d be a good time for Alathea, our VI legal-beagle to stop by and respond to some of your comments because I think you’ve got it sort of backward. The onus is never on the defense to prove their client innocence. Reasonable doubt can be created just by poking holes in the prosecutions case, without an alternate theory. Jurors are instructed to form an opinion based on the evidence only, not prosecution’s or defence theories.

I did not state that the defense was required to present a theory, nor prove their client's innocence. I stated that they needed to defend the client adequately and introduce reasonable doubt. I then predicted that they will introduce a theory in this case. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

 

[MsBetsy]

Wow, I almost missed this, as I was about to go to bed! So freaky! Even the fluorescent purple with black background. I think this sounds very much like the " anger retaliation killer." Although it did say the victim is usually turned on side or back, it also said, if left on her back, he will cover her eyes, which we know he did with the cornstalks. The most interesting detail that jumped out at me was the fact that " The anger retaliation killer NEEDS A SPECIFIC EVENT WITH EACH VICTIM AS A SPUR TO THE ATTACK EVEN IF HE HAS SET IT UP CONSCIOUSLY. I would have put that in bold but I dont know how. Anyway, pretty close to what occurred, if at all true, that the fact that the victim threatened to call police is what angered him and sent him into a violent rage. Also interesting how it describes a knife or sharp object as a sexual tool and the carelessness about cleaning up afterwards. If this is true about Rivera, there must be plenty of evidence for LE to find. JMO

Sorry to reply to myself but I forgot to mention the way the retaliation killer seeks out his victims also sounds close to what Rivera did. Will usually select someone close to his age, and then stalk, corner and isolate victim before the attack, attacking suddenly and in a frenzy. ( I am summarizing from memory so sorry if the wording isn't the same) There is so much more but I am tired and babbling now, you'll have to read it if your interested.. cool how the purple turns to blue when you touch the screen, then after I read it and went back to this page everything looked really yellow. Freaky.

 

[MsBetsy]

I did not state that the defense was required to present a theory, nor prove their client's innocence. I stated that they needed to defend the client adequately and introduce reasonable doubt. I then predicted that they will introduce a theory in this case. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Didn't the defense team for Jodi Arias do that exact same thing? Isn't that why the whole " battered women's syndrome " came up?

 

[scarlettbones]

Wowzers, are you joking about the potato chip bag? Lol!

Nope!
Man fired for using potato chip bag to skip work for two years