Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

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I don’t think his new attorneys are going to have him plead guilty, I think they are going to fight this out to the bitter end for the publicity, IMO

Attorneys will certainly advise the possible benefits or consequences to various options but if they somehow forced a defendant to plea a certain way, imagine what would happen if the trial didn’t go the way the lawyers instructed? Ineffective council! No, the defendant is ultimately responsible for making decisions, what to plea, if he will testify, etc.
 
@SharonNeedles said:
Hey all - I’m not really following anymore so I apologize if this has been covered, but did we ever establish what was going on with the reports of a Black SUV on the night Mollie disappeared



Commenting on my earlier post: it's alleged the black SUV was actually LE trying to foil a burglary attempt. This also makes more sense in the way the topic closed down without explanation.
The reason I asked is that I found out yesterday who it was and why they were driving around - it wasn’t exactly LE, but I get the impression they were on the phone with LE at the time and they all knew what was going on. I just felt like I was really in the dark because I was under the impression that a Black SUV driving around Brooklyn that night was just a rumor. I guess it really did happen, but had no connection to the MT case at all.
 
I think sometimes it’s rather confusing, how trials work. The onus is entirely on the State to prove the defendants guilt. It’s not up to the defendant to prove their innocence whatsoever. It’s human nature to come up with theories about why so and so might get off but even here, in reality CRs not required to put forth any defence. The jury will only be instructed to determine if the State proved their case or not beyond reasonable doubt.

If a jury wonders if aliens might’ve done it, that’s usually because there was weakness in the State’s case, leaving open wiggle room for the defence to insert a reasonable doubt of guilt.

Aliens is a bit far fetched, lol

I think they may try to lessen the charge by adding minutia to befuddle the jury

But let’s say CR claims this now that he has a team of attorneys

He was just driving around lost, not stalking her at all

He stopped to ask her for directions and she took it the wrong way and threatened to call LE

CR panics and tries to stop her when a struggle ensues and he accidentally knocked her out on the head.

Now he’s blocking his memory so there is a ton of reasonable doubt they can add, did he get help from a the friends that fled the farm, was he out of control, etc.

What seems reasonable to one person may not to the next, look at all the speculation here

All it takes is to get a few of them doubting
 
So, it's your understanding that he/his family paid the retainer for a lawyer of choice, but he is claiming to be tapped out now and in need of financial assistance to pay for the PI only - or everything? TIA

PI only so far

Based on what has been reported, his family privately hired all the attorneys, to me that means it’s not pro bono, it could be all their fee, half, we don’t know that aspect, only that they were hired.

I don’t understand why the state has to pay his PI, other than the family must have said we can’t afford the PI?

Thinking back on cases where people hired their own attorney I can’t think of one where they asked the state to pay for their investigations, I thought it was up to the accused to pay for anything they felt would help their case.

I don’t know why he’s been allowed to hire private lawyers and then ask the state to pay other fees, my best guess is he somehow qualifies for lower attorney fees and it’s being treated like a public defender.
 
"Rivera allegedly confessed to being involved in her murder.

Rivera has had two legal teams represent him. The most recent one is a husband-wife team from Marshalltown. Chad and Jennifer Frese submitted paperwork on Wednesday, informing the court that they had hired a private investigator, from Gratias Investigations in Des Moines.

"An investigator is necessary to offer Defendant assistance in this matter of particulars which are reasonably obvious given the attention this case has received. However, Defendant will not specify each and every detail as to his reasons."

Cristhian Rivera's legal team gets state to pay for private investigator

Interesting that the state will pay for a PI but he doesn't have to tell them why he needs one. Gratias Investigations.

Am I reading this correctly? The only reason given by his legal team to support the necessity of a PI is "the amount of attention this case has received"??? So, the legal team wants the notoriety that comes with such a high-profile case. However, without a PI, the legal team can't do the leg-work to "gather the particulars" of the case, via subpoenas, depositions, research, fact-checking, etc. such that the defendant is assured effective counsel? The case wouldn't have received nearly so much attention if he had come forward immediately and saved the family weeks of agony. :mad: I hope the legal team speaks better than they write, bc, to me, that sentence reads...the particulars of the case are reasonably obvious. o_O
 
I think sometimes it’s rather confusing, how trials work. The onus is entirely on the State to prove the defendants guilt. It’s not up to the defendant to prove their innocence whatsoever. It’s human nature to come up with theories about why so and so might get off but even here, in reality CRs not required to put forth any defence. The jury will only be instructed to determine if the State proved their case or not beyond reasonable doubt.

If a jury wonders if aliens might’ve done it, that’s usually because there was weakness in the State’s case, leaving open wiggle room for the defence to insert a reasonable doubt of guilt.
This is too true, and sometimes ends up being a double edged sword (innocent until proven guilty... helps the innocent, but the guilty can use it to their advantage).
 
Attorneys will certainly advise the possible benefits or consequences to various options but if they somehow forced a defendant to plea a certain way, imagine what would happen if the trial didn’t go the way the lawyers instructed? Ineffective council! No, the defendant is ultimately responsible for making decisions, what to plea, if he will testify, etc.

I didn’t say anything about forcing him.

If he wants to stand up and say I did it, I’m guilty, they can’t stop him, but do you think they will allow him to do that?

They will guide and advise him of the best scenarios and he will most likely agree with them as most people do.

IMO, this will be a high profile case.
 
Am I reading this correctly? The only reason given by his legal team to support the necessity of a PI is "the amount of attention this case has received"??? So, the legal team wants the notoriety that comes with such a high-profile case. However, without a PI, the legal team can't do the leg-work to "gather the particulars" of the case, via subpoenas, depositions, research, fact-checking, etc. such that the defendant is assured effective counsel? The case wouldn't have received nearly so much attention if he had come forward immediately and saved the family weeks of agony. :mad: I hope the legal team speaks better than they write, bc, to me, that sentence reads...the particulars of the case are reasonably obvious. o_O

Bingo!
 
PI only so far

Based on what has been reported, his family privately hired all the attorneys, to me that means it’s not pro bono, it could be all their fee, half, we don’t know that aspect, only that they were hired.

I don’t understand why the state has to pay his PI, other than the family must have said we can’t afford the PI?

Thinking back on cases where people hired their own attorney I can’t think of one where they asked the state to pay for their investigations, I thought it was up to the accused to pay for anything they felt would help their case.

I don’t know why he’s been allowed to hire private lawyers and then ask the state to pay other fees, my best guess is he somehow qualifies for lower attorney fees and it’s being treated like a public defender.

I don't understand either. The only time I've ever heard of anything remotely similar is when a defendant hires a legal team. Subsequent to that, there is a hung jury, and upon the state's decision to retry, the judge orders the state to pay for the same legal team to represent the defendant bc he/she is now out of money. But to split the bill? How does that work? Maybe the judge is being extremely cautious, due to the anticipated appeals that may come later???
 
The reason I asked is that I found out yesterday who it was and why they were driving around - it wasn’t exactly LE, but I get the impression they were on the phone with LE at the time and they all knew what was going on. I just felt like I was really in the dark because I was under the impression that a Black SUV driving around Brooklyn that night was just a rumor. I guess it really did happen, but had no connection to the MT case at all.
Thanks for update!
@Mica - solved
 
I took German translation a year ago, and one thing I learned is that there is almost always translation loss. When there is more than one or two words at play, it can't be helped. All that a translator can do is try to minimize it. That 400 level course was enough for me. I'm not even going to attempt the masters certificate. It's really a lot harder than a lot of people think.
I agree that with translation of spoken words into different languages from a 'non-native' speaker, there are major potential misinterpretaions due to colloquial or dialectical differences that are subtleties hard to suss out, especially in a legal setting with major stressors such as immediate translation by an interpreter and confirmation by the speaker in a court of law that what was translated was accurate, etc. These difficulties, although professionals will do their best to overcome, could be fodder for the accused. Like, CR's lawyers claiming he misunderstood Miranda rights, questions from LE, the Judge at the preliminary hearing, etc. JMO
 
I've been thinking about more charges, defense plans, etc. and think I may have come up with a possible problem. If they don't charge him with anything other than 1st degree murder, there is a possibility that he could go free. If his attorneys can convince at least one juror that it wasn't premeditated, there could be a mistrial because of a hung jury; if they can convince all jurors, he'd be found not guilty - even if there was no question about him killing her. I'm assuming more charges will be added, but if not, they'd better hope the judge allows the jury to convict him of a lesser charge if they don't think it was premeditated. MOO
 
Exactly, which is another reason it makes me wonder if the killing wasn't before he turned into that cornfield pull-off. The murder is the blocked memory.
Do you believe that he has little recollection of the “majority”or “some” of what he did?
I guess we don’t know if he has blocked memory issues.

I still believe that blocked memory is not what RC suffered when he took a young woman’s life. My Opinion.
 
I don't understand either. The only time I've ever heard of anything remotely similar is when a defendant hires a legal team. Subsequent to that, there is a hung jury, and upon the state's decision to retry, the judge orders the state to pay for the same legal team to represent the defendant bc he/she is now out of money. But to split the bill? How does that work? Maybe the judge is being extremely cautious, due to the anticipated appeals that may come later???

I have no idea

Why would anyone hire a public defender if they can get the state to pay a portion their bill while maintains a private hire?

And on top of that not even tell the judge why the PI is needed orther than playing the poor immigrant getting an unfair trial card.
 
I have no idea

Why would anyone hire a public defender if they can get the state to pay a portion their bill while maintains a private hire?

And on top of that not even tell the judge why the PI is needed orther than playing the poor immigrant getting an unfair trial card.

I'm just going to trust the court knows what they are doing and let it be about why. there are too many things we do not know for me to be willing to pass any judgement about the whys. it is just money and money is small compared to the loss of life that has happened. I don't care who is writing a check to who as long as there is a fair trial so it has the best chance it can have to not end up with a murder back on the street.
 
Do you believe that he has little recollection of the “majority”or “some” of what he did?
I guess we don’t know if he has blocked memory issues.

I still believe that blocked memory is not what RC suffered when he took a young woman’s life. My Opinion.
To me the block memories story sets him up not to have to answer to the murder itself. Whether truth or lie, it seems to conveniently skip over the multiple sharp force trauma part.
 
Aliens is a bit far fetched, lol

I think they may try to lessen the charge by adding minutia to befuddle the jury

But let’s say CR claims this now that he has a team of attorneys

He was just driving around lost, not stalking her at all

He stopped to ask her for directions and she took it the wrong way and threatened to call LE

CR panics and tries to stop her when a struggle ensues and he accidentally knocked her out on the head.

Now he’s blocking his memory so there is a ton of reasonable doubt they can add, did he get help from a the friends that fled the farm, was he out of control, etc.

What seems reasonable to one person may not to the next, look at all the speculation here

All it takes is to get a few of them doubting
MOO there is no way he can be lost in a small town that he has lived around for 4 years unless he is starting to get "Sometimers". He frequently went to Casey's in town, didn't he ? I think I read that. He also was in town visiting IM and their daughter. I'm not buying, and I don't think a jury would either, that MT would threaten to call the police over CR asking for directions. Either way, she only threatened. CR said so himself. That implies she wasn't actually dialing. He always had the choice to keep rolling away from her. Plus, there have been other articles on here indicating that CR was following behind another young woman while she was walking and she called and told her boyfriend, I believe. There are probably others as well that haven't come forward yet, or who have spoken to LE but not the media. I think he chased lots of girls. Maybe just the others didn't mention the word "police" or stayed in less secluded areas where he knew he would be spotted.
 
I've been thinking about more charges, defense plans, etc. and think I may have come up with a possible problem. If they don't charge him with anything other than 1st degree murder, there is a possibility that he could go free. If his attorneys can convince at least one juror that it wasn't premeditated, there could be a mistrial because of a hung jury; if they can convince all jurors, he'd be found not guilty - even if there was no question about him killing her. I'm assuming more charges will be added, but if not, they'd better hope the judge allows the jury to convict him of a lesser charge if they don't think it was premeditated. MOO
I’m more concerned that the defense will of course do all they can to get at least one sympathetic juror they can convince there’s “reasonable doubt.” Unless the defense comes up with something extraordinary I don’t think acquittal is likely, but depending on the jury composition I can see this not being a slam dunk for the prosecution at all.
 
PI only so far

Based on what has been reported, his family privately hired all the attorneys, to me that means it’s not pro bono, it could be all their fee, half, we don’t know that aspect, only that they were hired.

I don’t understand why the state has to pay his PI, other than the family must have said we can’t afford the PI?

Thinking back on cases where people hired their own attorney I can’t think of one where they asked the state to pay for their investigations, I thought it was up to the accused to pay for anything they felt would help their case.

I don’t know why he’s been allowed to hire private lawyers and then ask the state to pay other fees, my best guess is he somehow qualifies for lower attorney fees and it’s being treated like a public defender.
an example of a case where someone filed an appeal listing "denial of a request for a private investigator at public expense" as one of the reasons.
Even if he appealed and lost the appeal, I think it's better to avoid the appeal in the first place.
https://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/03091104pdm.pd
 
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