Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

[MistyWaters]

I don't think that police "pulled 1994 birth year out of a hat", but I do think that Rivera's false documents used the year 1994. When Rivera filled out the paperwork for PI funds, I think he used his true birth year of 1997.

For work, he needed to be older, for criminal activity, in most countries younger typically means potential for rehabilitation and lesser sentence.

I don’t know, surely LE is smarter than to presume people who use false identities stick with a true DOB considering local, State and Federal agents were involved?

If I had to make a wild guess, I’d say the cause of the discrepancy is because when CR left his home place, a Mexican official was paid to alter data records on the chance he was captured after crossing the border. If it appeared he was under the age of 18, his risk was lessened.

And that’s why the PI, to seek out such things as school records, hospital records, and baptismal records.

 

[Jaclin]

For now his DOB is yet another unknown. As you’ve pointed out, LE has consistently referred to CR living in Poweshiek County as an undocumented immigrant for 4 to 7 years, which happens to also account for a 3 year DOB year gap. That suggests LE may have been aware from the onset there was cause for confusion, after CR disclosed his legal name.

If CR came over with the Uncle, as is reported, why doesn’t the Uncle know what year he arrived in Poweshciek County? If CR met IM in Brooklyn, why doesn’t she know if he’d just recently arrived or had already been hanging around 3 years prior? If reporters were able to talk to the father, wouldn’t LE have as well? Wouldn’t they have clarified his DOB and departure date as well?

All unanswered questions as we don’t know the reason for the ambiguity. Either data records are wrong or unreliable. Or someone is wrong or not telling the truth, because LE can’t have just pulled the 1994 birth year out of a hat.

can't we just ask him how old he is? even if he isn't clear on the year, anyone under 30 usually knows how old they are without having to think about it. We can work back from that to determine what year he was born.

 

[1987]

can't we just ask him how old he is? even if he isn't clear on the year, anyone under 30 usually knows how old they are without having to think about it. We can work back from that to determine what year he was born.

are we going to trust anything he says at this point?

 

[MistyWaters]

You mean the point about why "blocked" and "memory" are in quotation marks? I think they are in quotation marks because Rivera used those exact words in describing his memory loss. They are probably in separate quotation marks because when spoken in English and Spanish, they may not be in the same order. I don't speak Spanish, but I do know that sentence structure varies depending on language.

I think the investigator who summarized the many hours of the interview quoted the exact words spoken by the translater. As another WS member posted earlier, there are words that don’t have a precise translation from one language to another.

Before this case came along, I’d have thought blocking one’s memory to be a conscious act, ie not wanting to think about something.

 

[TL4S]

can't we just ask him how old he is? even if he isn't clear on the year, anyone under 30 usually knows how old they are without having to think about it. We can work back from that to determine what year he was born.

LEO: "Please state your name and age."
CR: "John Budd. 148 years old."

 

[Jaclin]

can't we just ask him how old he is? even if he isn't clear on the year, anyone under 30 usually knows how old they are without having to think about it. We can work back from that to determine what year he was born.

are we going to trust anything he says at this point?

I wasn't being entirely serious, but it isn't going to help him on his murder charge to lie about his age. It would just add to his history of lies. Possibly it could help against an ICE detention at the time of immigration, but I'm not sure about now since he would no longer be a minor.

 

[1987]

how does the father know that someone that says he is CR is really his son CR? I am thinking it isn't like he can see for himself I wouldn't think. i don't know if anyone in this case is who they say they are or not and i don't understand how anything to do with them can be confirmed.

 

[Jaclin]

how does the father know that someone that says he is CR is really his son CR? I am thinking it isn't like he can see for himself I wouldn't think. i don't know if anyone in this case is who they say they are or not and i don't understand how anything to do with them can be confirmed.

I think this is how his father would know if it is a different CR.

 

[RANCH]

I don't see anything lost in translation. He got mad, and he admits that when he gets upset, his memory is blocked. I think it's a rather brilliant defense because it has the potential to reduce the conviction to second degree.

The trial argument has to try to prove that his memory was intact, or that the sharp object injuries occurred at the cornfield.

"Rivera said he then panicked and got mad and that he then "blocked" his "memory" which is what he does when he gets very upset and doesn't remember anything after that until he came to at an intersection."​

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/082118+DCI+Arrest.pdf

If CR uses an affirmative defense how will he convince the jury that he "blocked" his memory? Simply claiming that it happen isn't very convincing to me.

He will have to present evidence that supports his claim. JMO.

Affirmative Defense
A defense in which the defendant introduces evidence, which, if found to be credible, will negate criminal or civil liability, even if it is proven that the defendant committed the alleged acts. Self-defense, entrapment, insanity, and necessity are some examples of affirmative defenses. See, e.g. Beach v. Ocwen Fed. Bank, 523 U.S. 410 (1998).

Affirmative Defense

 

[Al Hoffman]

I'll put up a map I posted long ago. MOO I'm no cell phone tower expert (wish I was, after this case...), but I do suspect that if CR drove 200th St. south to 460th, then near that 200th/460th intersection her phone could possibly have pinged off two towers (Deep River and Guernsey) because they are relatively the same distance apart. If he headed east on 460th a little bit, which would put him less than a mile straight north of the pig farm, maybe he left the the Deep River tower range because Guernsey was closer, so her cell pinged again. From there, if her phone stayed in the same sector of the Guernsey tower, it might not ping again (I've read it could be hours if in the same spot). That could explain the last ping being near the pig farm, and if you look at the estimated ranges and sector of my map (which is ONLY my guesstimate), yellow would be the area you would search based solely on the cell phone pings, and that is the area where many of the known searches happened. JMO

Note: The pig farm is inside that purple box. The blue line is the travel route, and the body site is at the end of that blue line.

Again, great work sailor! Double beer rat for you!
I still think that CR drove past or stopped at the "hog farm" on his "confused", dazed drive looking for a good place to dump the body. But we can agree to disagree, as neither you nor I were riding "shotgun" with CR that night!
Can you believe that the British Navy's newest Aircraft Carrier has a PUB on board, and its own speciality brewed beer "Carrier Ale". (But no more daily rum ration).
And Marines grumble about soft serve ice milk in the Navy mess. (Fastest way in the world to drink coffee if you are in a hurry. Not a bad mocha coffee if you go with the chocolate!)

 

[1987]

I think this is how his father would know if it is a different CR.

that answers that. i didn't know this was available. now i wonder if it is available with translation.

 

[agilbe]

that answers that. i didn't know this was available. now i wonder if it is available with translation.

The neighbors of the CR's family are very protective of them. His father raises corn and tends cattle. Kind of ironic. His family are all hard workers. They showed the school he used to go to. And he enjoyed playing football as a child. No one had an unkind thing to say about him or his family, that I heard. Just a quick summary. I only watched it once. I'll try and watch it a little more carefully later when I have some time.

 

[MistyWaters]

how does the father know that someone that says he is CR is really his son CR? I am thinking it isn't like he can see for himself I wouldn't think. i don't know if anyone in this case is who they say they are or not and i don't understand how anything to do with them can be confirmed.

Yes I totally agree, the storyline that’s gradually morphing in the media may prove to be far different than reality.

I’m sceptical of the alleged father’s telephone interview as well. How does the reporter know who he’s talking to? Did the reporter locate the fathers phone number or did someone contact the media, “Hi, I’m Eduardo...”? We don’t know.

“If he had done what they say he did, he would have come back here [to Mexico],” Eduardo Bahena Radilla, his father, said in a telephone interview from Guayabillo, a small town in Mexico. “But he’s innocent, so he didn’t run and hide.”
Suspect’s relatives say they’re baffled by arrest in Mollie Tibbetts case

 

[TL4S]

Again, great work sailor! Double beer rat for you!
I still think that CR drove past or stopped at the "hog farm" on his "confused", dazed drive looking for a good place to dump the body. But we can agree to disagree, as neither you nor I were riding "shotgun" with CR that night!
Can you believe that the British Navy's newest Aircraft Carrier has a PUB on board, and its own speciality brewed beer "Carrier Ale". (But no more daily rum ration).
And Marines grumble about soft serve ice milk in the Navy mess. (Fastest way in the world to drink coffee if you are in a hurry. Not a bad mocha coffee if you go with the chocolate!)

And I don't entirely disagree, either. Although I'm kinda disappointed you didn't offer me some lip balm. There are a lot of reasons he could have driven past the pig farm. I don't settle on anything for certain without all the evidence.

 

[Kaylas]

And if they go with 1997 as the correct DOB, then what are the odds they will use the 1994 DOB from the affidavit as yet more evidence and pattern of diminished capacity? He was upset because the police showed up, therefore wasn't thinking clearly when he gave his DOB as 1994?

If the identity of the actual John Budd had a birth year of 1994, I can see why CR used 1994 instead of his actual year of birth.

A person named at birth, John Budd, in 1994 probably was living and then died. I had done a search and was surprised how many death records there are for John Budd. I assume that the identity was stolen from a deceased person.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Yep, and for clarity, the affidavit states CR "blocked" his "memory". Why the double quotation marks are there on the affidavit - that I don't know. Is this something that is lost in translation? And speaking of translation, remember that the affidavit is from what CR said to a translator, then what the translator said to Deputy Sheriff Steve Kivi. Then to what Deputy Sheriff Kivi wrote on the affidavit. It becomes a game of telephone by the time it is signed off by Julie "Last Name illegible" Clerk of Court Designee. Julie, who I can find no record of at the Powesheik County website.

Hopefully we'll get some clarification on Wednesday.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/082118+DCI+Arrest.pdf

Yeah, and if I were her, I would also scrawl an illegible signature (Sister Cosmos would be so disappointed). Who wants the Daily Mail pounding on their door!

 

[MistyWaters]

I think this is how his father would know if it is a different CR.

I’m unable to watch that video but did I read here that CRs father rode a donkey to go to work in the fields? Just by that I’m not picturing an urbanized area at all. Computers, internet access or even cellphones are unheard of in remote and poor rural areas of Mexico. Many don’t even have electricity and it’s not uncommon to observe locals collecting water or washing clothes in rivers and streams.

 

[RANCH]

If the identity of the actual John Budd had a birth year of 1994, I can see why CR used 1994 instead of his actual year of birth.

A person named at birth, John Budd, in 1994 probably was living and then died. I had done a search and was surprised how many death records there are for John Budd. I assume that the identity was stolen from a deceased person.

Or he stole the identity of a child which would help in concealing his true identity until that child is older and begins to work.

“The Social Security numbers of young children are especially sought by illegal aliens, as this theft is likely to go undetected for years. As children reach late teenage years and apply for credit for cars, student loans, and other needs, they may find that their credit has been compromised with mortgages, credit cards and criminal records attached to their identities,” said the group.

Illegal immigrants cited in theft of 39 million Social Security numbers

 

[otto]

I think the investigator who summarized the many hours of the interview quoted the exact words spoken by the translater. As another WS member posted earlier, there are words that don’t have a precise translation from one language to another.

Before this case came along, I’d have thought blocking one’s memory to be a conscious act, ie not wanting to think about something.

Conscious or unconscious, the end result is still a blocked memory - the automatism defense.

"If the defendant is found to have been acting as an automaton ("a machine that moves") when the crime was committed, that is, totally unconsciously and involuntarily, then he cannot be said to have been "acting" at all, in a legal sense. And without actus reus, the defendant cannot be held criminally liable for his actions"

The Automatism Defense | LectLaw.com

 

[otto]

I’m unable to watch that video but did I read here that CRs father rode a donkey to go to work in the fields? Just by that I’m not picturing an urbanized area at all. Computers, internet access or even cellphones are unheard of in remote and poor rural areas of Mexico. Many don’t even have electricity and it’s not uncommon to observe locals collecting water or washing clothes in rivers and streams.

I attended a webinar last week and captured this image - reference is in lower left of image. Although many people may not have computers, most have cell phones. 42% of the population in Mexico owns a smartphone.

Rivera's father may own a donkey and he may be poor, but Rivera had to get to school every day in the town that is 11 miles away. I think we can be sure that the children did not ride donkeys to school or wash their clothing in a river. In fact, didn't Rivera have a facebook page with a gun picture that pre-dated his arrival in Iowa?