ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 56

[Copper107]

I’ve only seen the photos from the Daily Mail of beds being removed, one placed in a black truck and one in a white truck, they look like queen size to me, or at least full size. At certain angles I can see how they look smaller but I don’t think that’s the case. Jmo
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Good point, thanks

 

[Snoop Sister]

Is there confirmation that the bed was a single in size? I read the affidavit ("the single bed in the room") to mean that there was only one bed in the room, not a reference to the beds size.

The affidavit is so convoluted!

 

[zoomom2]

His public defender Anne Taylor is DP certified/qualified.

​

Right. That's what I was saying. A different poster thought they were randomly assigned.

 

[Tillicum]

DM heard commotion upstairs first. Then she heard a women's voice, then she heard crying, then she heard a man's voice and then she saw a male leave the residence. I didn't read that she heard the "thud" or the "dog barking", right?

I'm not sure what that 1112 residence camera recorded at 4:17am. Possibly it was him running from the residence, maybe he was the one whimpering, a different dog, car door, etc.

But DM heard 4 different much quieter interactions that obviously weren't detected by the neighbor's camera. If she didn't hear or notice the thud or the dog, I don't understand how that could have been from within the house. I'm not saying the sounds aren't related the crime. I'm just saying it makes more sense that they were outside rather than inside. JMHO.

I was thinking along the same lines. He ran out and opened his trunk to throw his kill kit in and realized he lost the sheath. He lost it and started whimpering, then slammed the trunk shut. The neighbor's dog was barking at him. JMO.

 

[Boxer]

He may have realized he left the knife sheath and was looking to see if he could retrieve it. Or may have wanted to see the police presence that he expected to be there to see the impact of what he did. MOO

Also if so m, as he weighed entering the house again for the sheath, he probably thought the sheath was wiped clean, so not worth the risk, a common knife.

So they had the sheath with DNA but BK is not in CODIS.
He was apparently careful in a lot of ways, but once his car was identified police could see his cell history. They saw the stalking, then they matched the single male DNA at the scene to BK.

 

[BelleIsle]

He must have assumed LE would only check for cell phones that were in the area at the time of the murders. Oops.

I think you may be right. He really didn't think they would connect him to the crime. Arrogant. He did not think ahead at all to the "what if"s.

 

[bondchanel]

Based on the house layout, I am having difficulty understanding how BM saw a male walking toward her and the male walking through the back sliding door. XR's room was closest to the sliding door. Is it possible roommates on the third floor were killed last, and the male came down the stairs, walking past BM's bedroom (southeast side of the house on the second floor) and toward the back sliding door?

Maybe it's the wording of the affidavit based on her statement?

 

[layer]

Again, your interpretation. The language in the affidavit is vague. Just the fact that several people have a different interpretation throws out the possibility that it's clear, IMO.

I agree. I personally believe it indicates that both were found in the bedroom, but it is open to interpretation.
Time will tell.

 

[otto]

Hey, Otto!

She ran to the basement? How did I miss that? I thought she closed and locked her bedroom door.

Yeah, I get it, but to turn off your phone just for the time of the crime, that's silly. It leaves an obvious hole. I think that he was so compulsive that the urge to bring his phone along was irresistible (by compulsive, I also mean obsessed, wrapped up in the emotions he was having regarding stalking whoever, maybe looking at her social media). He knew it was dumb, but did it anyway. Or, he was super naive, this doesn't fit with his history of being a criminology student.

She didn't. She was in her bedroom, she locked her door after she saw him walk past her. My mistake.

He thought that turning off his phone during the murders meant that his phone would never be connected to the murder address. He didn't realize that:

1. the car would connect to the murders,
2. the PA plates car would connect to him (he changed plates after murders),
3. he was connected to his phone number (pulled over near house on Aug 21); and,
4. his phone number history would connect him to the address 12 times prior to the murders.

He studied Criminology, but the program does not teach anyone how to think like a criminal. Knowing how to catch a criminal does not mean knowing how to evade criminal justice.

 

[insearchoflight]

Daily mails interpretations of the affidavit and timeline of events is interesting. I initially thought after reading it it was opposite order (M and K first victims, then X and E).

Idaho police begin clearing rental home where students were murdered

Idaho State Police began clearing the Moscow home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death - a day after their alleged killer was formally charged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[drmrgrl]

I think he saw them at that bar , he wouldn't stand out age wise there, I think he hit on one of them and got shot down or didn't have the balls to talk to them and that's where the following or stalking started jmvoo

IMO, I am going to throw a curveball. What if BK wasn’t stalking per se, but surveilling. Maybe after he started at WSU he got wind of some “rumor” or some plot-gossip pertaining to a possible murder occurring at the house on 1122-some weird email or anonymous letter and instead of notifying the police, he followed up on it on his own time. Should he go to the police, he would look like a fool. Obviously, the letter or notification was a set up or joke, but BK kept following up on it not knowing it was a set up. I recall Moscow PD, in the early stages of the investigation, were seeking a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantra because they thought that the occupants of that vehicle had “critical” info regarding the murders.

 

[Dre]

IMO, this makes me suspicious in and of itself. If you look at the big picture, this all seems TOO EASY. For a criminology student to do this is bs. Let me guess that dna that was found was precisely placed on the knife sheath snap. I D K. BK has a history of being picked on, so I am guessing that he is a sort of mild milquetoast personality. He’s either Mr. milquetoast or he can become aggressive. A lot of people who are mild mannered don’t know how to handle bullies or people that “ push buttons”. I also know that people don’t like to be DISRESPECTED. I am disbelieving of all the media bs that makes him look like a monster, because he very well is not a monster. INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY. Just look at what the media did to Amanda Knox.

are you first saying the police framed him?
and then trying to say he felt disrespected and his buttons were pushed?

 

[layer]

Based on the house layout, I am having difficulty understanding how BM saw a male walking toward her and the male walking through the back sliding door. XR's room was closest to the sliding door. Is it possible roommates on the third floor were killed last, and the male came down the stairs, walking past BM's bedroom (southeast side of the house on the second floor) and toward the back sliding door?

Absolutely! And the fact that Murphy, who was on the third floor and belonged to K, didn't start barking until 4:17 also supports this theory.

And I think you mean DM.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

On the issue of BCK returning to the house approx. 5 hours after leaving the scene:

IMO this was because during the 15 minutes or so he was inside the house the adrenaline would have been coursing through his body and he failed to notice he no longer had the knife sheath until sometime after he had left the scene. It's not difficult to imagine that he might not have realised he did not have the sheath until he had returned home and regained his senses and capacity to "think". And there are multiple plausible scenarios in which the sheath could have fallen from his possession without him noticing (whether it was on a belt, in a pocket, in his hand etc) during what must have been an extremely chaotic 15 minutes or so while he was inside the home.

If it is accepted he only realised the sheath was gone sometime between leaving the house and returning home (presumably confirmed after he tossed the car in an unsuccessful bid to locate it), I think he then assumed he must have dropped it at the scene but probably did not know exactly where - inside the house? the entrance? the route he had taken between the house and returning to his parked car?

At this point it's safe to assume he was panicked because if the sheath was found, his goose could quite easily be cooked. In that regard, I don't believe the sheath was intentionally left behind - I think it was completely unintended.

So he plucks up the courage and decides to return to the area with the initial aim of ascertaining whether there was any police presence there yet. Realising there wasn't but obviously not wanting to hang around, he probably looked for it around where he had parked and perhaps even retraced some of his steps towards the house. Not finding it, he must have then assumed it was somewhere inside the house and decided there was no way he could re-enter to look for it and departed.

Who knows, having realised that there was no activity in/around the home, maybe momentarily he even entertained the thought of re-entering and, if need be, killing anyone inside in order to find & retrieve the sheath. He would have been sweating bullets about it though (in addition to his car) in the days and weeks that followed.

We may never hear what actually happened, the full truth, from the horses mouth and so may have to make do with theory and inference. But this is the strongest explanation based on the presently known facts for why someone who had killed 4 people only hours earlier would risk returning to the scene as he appears to have done and for the amount of time he was there.

JMO.

While reading your post, it occurred to me, DM was able to see enough to state the person she saw walking towards her had bush eyebrows...... I wonder if she saw a knife in his hand too. I'd think he'd surely have it in his hand, ready, just in case he was confronted or surprised by another resident living there - JMO. And surely LE would have asked her that, yet there was no mention of it in the affidavit. So, I assume that is one detail they intentionally left out but will bring up at trial. All my opinion and speculation.

 

[Dialectic]

Based on the house layout, I am having difficulty understanding how BM saw a male walking toward her and the male walking through the back sliding door. XR's room was closest to the sliding door. Is it possible roommates on the third floor were killed last, and the male came down the stairs, walking past BM's bedroom (southeast side of the house on the second floor) and toward the back sliding door?

Maybe it's the wording of the affidavit based on her statement?

I believe the murderer walked towards her coming from X's room. Then the murderer proceeded to walk past her towards the kitchen and out.

 

[isabella88]

IMO, I am going to throw a curveball. What if BK wasn’t stalking per se, but surveilling. Maybe after he started at WSU he got wind of some “rumor” or some plot-gossip pertaining to a possible murder occurring at the house on 1122-some weird email or anonymous letter and instead of notifying the police, he followed up on it on his own time. Should he go to the police, he would look like a fool. Obviously, the letter or notification was a set up or joke, but BK kept following up on it not knowing it was a set up. I recall Moscow PD, in the early stages of the investigation, were seeking a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantra because they thought that the occupants of that vehicle had “critical” info regarding the murders.

Are you just playing devil's advocate here? I don't understand.

 

[BelleIsle]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne.pdf

This scenario would explain
a: the extremely tight almost unbelievable timeline
b: the ridiculous panicky drive bys/attempted parks past the house/in immediate neighbourhood between 3.29am and 4.04am

This scenario is premised on my speculations that emotional meltdown/investment overtook booksmarts for BK on the morning of the murders.

BK's Car (Suspect 1 Car) is recorded driving on past at 4.04am after attempting to park/uturn. if we speculate he parked immediately after this, somewhere down road from the house, how long would that take? I'm saying at least 2 mins. So that takes us to 4.06am at a minimum. Getting out, walking to house, going to slider, entering house, I'm saying that would take at least 2 mins. That takes us to 4.08am. Now I don't think he could have been inside the house until at least 4.08am but it COULD have been later, so conservatively I'm speculating 4.08 to 4.12 am. We know from neighbour CCTV audio immediately adjacent to X/E room that at 4.17am there is a thump, we know that street camera/cctv/ring has BK (Suspect Car 1) leaving street (which street is not specified) at 4.20 am. Everything DM hears and sees appears to happen after 4am up until she sees BK heading towards her, and then PCA evidence suggests he left. I give him 3 mins minimum to leave, get back in his car, start it and drive away, which means he probably exited house at 4.17am immediately after the thump. To my mind it is entirely possible that BK spent only 5 - 9 minutes in the house IMO - 4.08am-4.12am to 4.17am. IMO, Perhaps with 9 mins he could murder all four. Even perhaps with 7 mins (arrival time 4.10am), but not with 5 mins IMO.

I want to combine the above with consideration of the gap in timeline that exists, AT PRESENT. that is between 2.53am when Suspect Car 1 is caught leaving Pullman by camera, and 3.29am when Suspect Car 1 is first caught by cameras doing ridiculous drive bys/uturn in immediate neighbourhood of house. The drive bys have this desperate/panicky quality of the emotionally unhinged and deeply invested. Could this emotional meltdown quality be related to a sense of lost control? What triggered that? What triggered a ridiculous lack caution? My mind goes to the sheath. I think BK could have been looking to collect his sheath, which he had already accidently left behind earlier in the 3rd floor room.MOO.

Speculation only based on what is not in the PCA timeline: Sometime at say 3am, or just afterwards, BK parked in pre-prepared spot, out of neighborhood, as per plan, as per awareness of cameras and risk of car being caught in the actual street of the target house/individuals, walked unseen to house, entered unseen and unheard, went to third floor, murdered K/M (as per plan), dropped sheath (as NOT per plan), left unseen and unheard (as per plan) and reutuned to car. It is now, say, around 3.20/3.25am when back at his car BK notices the sheath is gone. Plans went to nothing, loss of control, horrors, no caution. Cue evidence between 3.29am and 4.20am as outlined in PCA...

Ofcouse, it's likely LE didn't collect Camera footage on all possible routes between Pullman and King street neighbourbood between 2.53am and 3.29am on morning of November 13th so I do realise this must remain as total speculation. I just think it would explain in a logical sense the tight timeline and BK's ridiculous driving behaviour between 3.29am and 4.20am. MOO

I like your idea. So, we also need to hear when the last drive by was before the one at 4:04, because it could have happened in that space of time as well.
What do you say to X being active on Tik Tok and with Door Dash at 4-4:12ish, the sounds that D heard? Do you think that BK killed X and E while in the house searching for the sheath?

 

[marloweclover]

IMO, if...

• he's right handed and the knife is in his dominant hand, at his side
• he's walking from X's room toward the kitchen
• the blade is a darker finish, not high shine and catching the light, assuming there's any light to catch

The knife would be on the other side of his body from D as he passed and possibly not readily visible.

 

[isabella88]

IMO, if...

• he's right handed and the knife is in his dominant hand, at his side
• he's walking from X's room toward the kitchen
• the blade is a darker finish, not high shine and catching the light, assuming there's any light to catch

The knife would be on the other side of his body from D as he passed and possibly not readily visible.

Yes! He may have also been hiding the knife in a way that would keep it from making a blood trail.

 

[Cedars]

Based on the house layout, I am having difficulty understanding how BM saw a male walking toward her and the male walking through the back sliding door. XR's room was closest to the sliding door. Is it possible roommates on the third floor were killed last, and the male came down the stairs, walking past BM's bedroom (southeast side of the house on the second floor) and toward the back sliding door?

Maybe it's the wording of the affidavit based on her statement?

Yes, but there was a long wall between Xana's room and the kitchen. It meant walking into the LR, turning right as though to go up the stairs, and turning right again, opposite DMs room. This link seems accurate: Virtual Tour of 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho

Edited to clarify: talking about route from Xana's room to kitchen.