ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 69

[EBW321]

BK may not have touched him at all… I have dogs, animal hair floats around in the air and gets all over stuff, whether you intend to touch it or not. JMO.

I share the same opinion Petunia83

 

[Colorado303]

The way I read that article is that it does not state that there is an existing or prior (at Jan 5th when AT was appointed for BK) conflict of interest (according to how that is interpreted under IDaho law). At this point we're not privy to details of how the situation was handled or if a conflict of interest will be found to have existed. We also don't know, from that article, whether the potential conflict of interest issue was addressed at the time AT took on BK's case. I tend to think, yes it was likely addressed at the time and no potential or existing COI was found to exist (under the legal definition of COI in such cases). My reasoning is that the Public Defender's office would want to be sure and would have followed protocols cos high profile case. All that would be on record IMO. MOO

My personal uninformed speculations run that AT representing a parent on unrelated matter after murders and prior to withdrawal on Jan 5, would not necessarily make for a COI. I feel that must have been carefully addressed at the time. MOO. AT representing a parent prior to the murders, in the past, on an (obviously) unrelated matter would be unlikley to make for a COI, IMO. But I am not a lawyer. MOO.

ETA: A legal rep interviewed for the article notes that "conflicts are factually based".

IMO whether the matter the attorney represented the victims parent(s) on is/isn’t related to BKs charges shouldn’t matter. Not one bit.

I have a problem with a potential prosecution witness on the stand being cross-examined by their former attorney. I just do.

<modsnip - sleuthing family> The investigation is still ongoing and at this point there’s no way of knowing whose testimony may or may not be relevant.

I also think it’s wrong for someone to have to get a new lawyer so that originl one can represent someone else. Even when the replacement client isn’t accused of killing the first client’s child in cold blood.

Sure BK has rights, but so does the original client.

I understand the law may see it differently, but that doesn’t make it right.

MOO

 

[EBW321]

The pings as they stand right now, don't prove he was on Queen street during those 12 times though, IMO. Prosecution will need supporting digi data of some kind to go down that route IMO. They are probably collating and analysing data at the moment.MOO

MOO- I fully believe BK is the person responsible for these crimes…. But I do worry he could have protected himself in some way by establishing /befriending someone in the in the neighborhood before committing these murders that could account for his phone pinging in close proximity to the girls house the previous 12 times mentioned in the affidavit.

The only reason this is something I’ve considered is because I’m still baffled by how someone with such knowledge of LE and the technological tools used to prosecute and connect murderers to the area , victims, etc via the use of forensic surveillance and cell tower dumps Would be so careless and stupid. And not think of this.

So it almost has me thinking maybe his cockiness is for a reason. Yes …… HIGHLY unlikely…. But it is something I worry about for the prosecution in this case…. Due to the fact I know we as the public still know so little of what LE knows… and what each sides attorneys are privy to about the case.

I think we as the public know the absolute minimum right now and that is understandable and what is best right now to get justice for the victims and their families…

But I still worry about this and those pings possibly being accounted for in some other way. Because right now… besides the knife sheath …. That is the primary factual evidence that screams guilty to me that the public knows about currently.

If the defense focuses on discrediting the cell tower pings, (which I’m sure they are working incredibly hard to do and going to try to come up with any and all excuses)… if they were in fact able to discover any other reason this could have occurred …. It could make prosecution slightly more difficult not having those pings to use at trial.

However I still think a conviction will occur and BK will receive the maximum sentence with the other evidence against him the public currently isn’t privy to.

All MOO

 

[sunshineray]

MOO- I fully believe BK is the person responsible for these crimes…. But I do worry he could have protected himself in some way by establishing /befriending someone in the in the neighborhood before committing these murders that could account for his phone pinging in close proximity to the girls house the previous 12 times mentioned in the affidavit.

The only reason this is something I’ve considered is because I’m still baffled by how someone with such knowledge of LE and the technological tools used to prosecute and connect murderers to the area , victims, etc via the use of forensic surveillance and cell tower dumps Would be so careless and stupid. And not think of this.

So it almost has me thinking maybe his cockiness is for a reason. Yes …… HIGHLY unlikely…. But it is something I worry about for the prosecution in this case…. Due to the fact I know we as the public still know so little of what LE knows… and what each sides attorneys are privy to about the case.

I think we as the public know the absolute minimum right now and that is understandable and what is best right now to get justice for the victims and their families…

But I still worry about this and those pings possibly being accounted for in some other way. Because right now… besides the knife sheath …. That is the primary factual evidence that screams guilty to me that the public knows about currently.

If the defense focuses on discrediting the cell tower pings, (which I’m sure they are working incredibly hard to do and going to try to come up with any and all excuses)… if they were in fact able to discover any other reason this could have occurred …. It could make prosecution slightly more difficult not having those pings to use at trial.

However I still think a conviction will occur and BK will receive the maximum sentence with the other evidence against him the public currently isn’t privy to.

All MOO

It's almost like he wanted to get caught, very confusing, the things he did prior to and after considering his education.

 

[Justice101]

MOO- I fully believe BK is the person responsible for these crimes…. But I do worry he could have protected himself in some way by establishing /befriending someone in the in the neighborhood before committing these murders that could account for his phone pinging in close proximity to the girls house the previous 12 times mentioned in the affidavit.

The only reason this is something I’ve considered is because I’m still baffled by how someone with such knowledge of LE and the technological tools used to prosecute and connect murderers to the area , victims, etc via the use of forensic surveillance and cell tower dumps Would be so careless and stupid. And not think of this.

So it almost has me thinking maybe his cockiness is for a reason. Yes …… HIGHLY unlikely…. But it is something I worry about for the prosecution in this case…. Due to the fact I know we as the public still know so little of what LE knows… and what each sides attorneys are privy to about the case.

I think we as the public know the absolute minimum right now and that is understandable and what is best right now to get justice for the victims and their families…

But I still worry about this and those pings possibly being accounted for in some other way. Because right now… besides the knife sheath …. That is the primary factual evidence that screams guilty to me that the public knows about currently.

If the defense focuses on discrediting the cell tower pings, (which I’m sure they are working incredibly hard to do and going to try to come up with any and all excuses)… if they were in fact able to discover any other reason this could have occurred …. It could make prosecution slightly more difficult not having those pings to use at trial.

However I still think a conviction will occur and BK will receive the maximum sentence with the other evidence against him the public currently isn’t privy to.

All MOO

Very interesting read. thanks!

If there is additional evidence tied directly to the 4 victims either in his car or in his apartment, game over.

 

[Yuletide]

It's almost like he wanted to get caught, very confusing, the things he did prior to and after considering his education.

It’s my opinion that he did not want to get caught, and had he not left the sheath behind, it’s also my opinion that he would not be behind bars today. He might have been under the umbrella of suspicion, but not behind bars. My opinion only

 

[Boxer]

Wouldn't it just prove how small the community is? I think the only way it would prove anything is if it's something unusual for that area and I'm not getting the sense that it is. He lived only 8 miles away, right? So it makes sense to me that in two small sister towns, they may visit the same locations.

I may revise this once we have more information about where his phone pinged, but for now, I want to post the passage from the PCA that has gotten so much attention. It says:

"On December 23, 2022 pursuant to that search warrant, I received historical records for the 8458 Phone from AT&T from the time the account was opened in June 2022. After consulting with CAST SA, I was able to determine estimated locations for the 8458 Phone from June 2022 to present, the time period authorized by the court. The records for the 8458 Phone show the 8458 Phone utilizing cellular resources that provide coverage to the area of 1122 King Road on at least twelve occasions prior to November 13, 2022. All of these occasions, except forone, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days."

It doesn't say he was at the house or even on the street. It just says that his phone pinged a tower that "provides coverage to the area of 1122 King Road."

That is incredibly vague and not even approaching a smoking gun, IMO.

Where else does the tower provide coverage besides 1122 King Road? How long was he there? A drive through is different from being stopped somewhere along the road. How many other random cars have this same pattern of 12 pings in that area? So many questions.

JMO.

A single tower will give data for distance from the tower in a 30 degree arc. This arc is called the time band.

Since the tower is close to 1122, the arc is fairly short curved line of possible locations.

Add a second tower ping with its distance and 30 degree arc and the phone location is where the arcs intersect.

 

[maskedwoman]

Agree. When i first heard this I was shocked.
Exactly as you say, he actually needed help.
If he wouldn’t listen to the professor’s feedback and adjust the grades then, yes, being a TA was not for him.

MOO I feel the prof must have tried to talk to him but he wasn’t open to feedback and as a last ditch before the steps for his removal we were set in motion they tried getting him some raw feedback from the class.

MOO, Notice his own master program prof allowed to write a “narrative” about his criminal thinking survey that he said he would conduct, but then didn’t, by his own failing to leave himself enough time process the data.

MOO, so he was treated kindly by a professor with the power to fail him for late work and then turned around and burned the undergrads assigned to him when he had the power.

I can totally see BK not being open to constructive criticism from the professor. We've heard from multiple people that he would talk over the professors, and correct them. It certainly sounds like he thought he knew more than they did.

 

[steeltowngirl]

MOO- I fully believe BK is the person responsible for these crimes…. But I do worry he could have protected himself in some way by establishing /befriending someone in the in the neighborhood before committing these murders that could account for his phone pinging in close proximity to the girls house the previous 12 times mentioned in the affidavit.

The only reason this is something I’ve considered is because I’m still baffled by how someone with such knowledge of LE and the technological tools used to prosecute and connect murderers to the area , victims, etc via the use of forensic surveillance and cell tower dumps Would be so careless and stupid. And not think of this.

So it almost has me thinking maybe his cockiness is for a reason. Yes …… HIGHLY unlikely…. But it is something I worry about for the prosecution in this case…. Due to the fact I know we as the public still know so little of what LE knows… and what each sides attorneys are privy to about the case.

I think we as the public know the absolute minimum right now and that is understandable and what is best right now to get justice for the victims and their families…

But I still worry about this and those pings possibly being accounted for in some other way. Because right now… besides the knife sheath …. That is the primary factual evidence that screams guilty to me that the public knows about currently.

If the defense focuses on discrediting the cell tower pings, (which I’m sure they are working incredibly hard to do and going to try to come up with any and all excuses)… if they were in fact able to discover any other reason this could have occurred …. It could make prosecution slightly more difficult not having those pings to use at trial.

However I still think a conviction will occur and BK will receive the maximum sentence with the other evidence against him the public currently isn’t privy to.

All MOO

BK’s car matching the Elantra caught on film and coinciding with the movement of his cell phone before and after the murders will be hard for defense to explain away.

An excuse of there’s “better shopping in Moscow“ wouldn’t be believable at 4 am.

jmo

 

[maskedwoman]

Or maybe it was seen as a chance to explain misunderstanding face to face?
Students could ask questions concerning their grades and he could explain his attitude and method of grading?
It depends on the atmosphere of this meeting - was it friendly or aggressive?

Communication is important.

JMO

Even if that's how the professor intended it, I can't see him being able to process it that way. I think he would have seen it as humiliating, failing to appreciate that he was trying to hold the students to a higher standard. I think he would have resented it, resulting in a "screw this" reaction. It seems like he had that reaction since he starting giving everyone perfect scores after that. I don't know if anyone has suggested this or not, but I certainly hope that experience didn't push him to any sort of action, IYKWIM. MOOooo

 

[Tillyjames]

It’s my opinion that he did not want to get caught, and had he not left the sheath behind, it’s also my opinion that he would not be behind bars today. He might have been under the umbrella of suspicion, but not behind bars. My opinion only

I agree. Maybe he would have been found eventually but the car really was the key to the case as that ultimately led to him and the DNA on the sheath.

 

[sunshineray]

It’s my opinion that he did not want to get caught, and had he not left the sheath behind, it’s also my opinion that he would not be behind bars today. He might have been under the umbrella of suspicion, but not behind bars. My opinion only

He did though follow all three female victims on a social media platform based on posted images and messaged one of them repeatedly, even though he hadn't received any response from her. That could be looked at as a man of 28 having an obsession with a 20 or 21 year old...AJMO

People Magazine: Idaho suspect followed victims on Instagram, 'repeatedly' messaged 1 | CNN

According to People Magazine, Brian Kohberger, the suspect charged with the killings of four University of Idaho students, followed the three female victims on Instagram and repeatedly messaged one of them without ever receiving a reply.

www.cnn.com

 

[Yuletide]

Even if that's how the professor intended it, I can't see him being able to process it that way. I think he would have seen it as humiliating, failing to appreciate that he was trying to hold the students to a higher standard. I think he would have resented it, resulting in a "screw this" reaction. It seems like he had that reaction since he starting giving everyone perfect scores after that. I don't know if anyone has suggested this or not, but I certainly hope that experience didn't push him to any sort of action, IYKWIM. MOOooo

I’m puzzled by all of the analysis and assumed criticism of the WSU program and Professor. Many of us have dealt with unprofessionalism, unfair treatment, and critical reviews that were subjective at best. Nothing pushes us to violent action unless that violent tendency was right at the surface anyway. BK made a choice. A horrible, violent choice. IMO

 

[Rigatoni999]

Good.

Then posters agree with me that you can always find a way to discount one piece of evidence but it's a whole lot harder to discount the mountain of evidence when all those pieces are put together.

Consider it a puzzle, eventually you get the picture.

(George Wagner, Case in point)

Yes. And IMO the mountain of evidence may grow exponetially when LE discloses additional dna hits that they have collected after the gag order was imposed.

 

[NCWatcher]

Even if that's how the professor intended it, I can't see him being able to process it that way. I think he would have seen it as humiliating, failing to appreciate that he was trying to hold the students to a higher standard. I think he would have resented it, resulting in a "screw this" reaction. It seems like he had that reaction since he starting giving everyone perfect scores after that. I don't know if anyone has suggested this or not, but I certainly hope that experience didn't push him to any sort of action, IYKWIM. MOOooo

Honestly, I can't see that ANY first-semester doctoral student put in front of a class of 150 undergrads who were told to "have at him" would view the experience as one that allowed the constructive exchange of information. And I don't think the professor saying "have at him" encouraged a friendly atmosphere. And I don't believe the professor thought it would.

I have been a doctoral student and I have been a professor. What the professor did (if the student's report is accurate) is appalling. (And I'd feel that way even if a crime hadn't occurred later.) If BK felt humiliated that makes perfect sense to me. I think most new TAs would react very negatively to that treatment. While we aren't supposed to sleuth people who aren't POI in the crime (& I don't remember the prof's name anyway) I'd be very interested in knowing what the professor's student evals are like. I'm pretty sure BK isn't the only student he has humiliated and I'm pretty sure he doesn't humiliate only doctoral students.
JMO

 

[GRT]

This almost sounds like a conflict of interest to me. If Taylor has represented a parent of one of the victims in prior cases, can she really remain unbiased?

Since 2000, the county public defender’s office has represented the homicide victim’s parent off and on in several cases, court records showed. Since Taylor took over, her office has defended the parent in four cases, including a misdemeanor from August 2017, for which Taylor took over as the attorney of record in September 2022.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271507917.html#storylink=cpy

 

[sleuth.sloth]

Not a lawyer, but re: conflicts of interest, let’s look at other industries for comparison.

The real estate industry is one that I personally am much more familiar with. Dual agency, representing two opposing parties, is permitted by most firms and IMO/MOO is highly highly unethical. Essentially, the agent has to step back and can’t work on anyones behalf. And then they’re paid double, so the only person they’re really looking out for is themself. And both parties have to sign off that they understand but in reality, it doesn’t serve the agent for the clients to truly understand what they’re agreeing to so they don’t explain the risk and lack of advocacy/ representation as well as they ought to. This is my strongly held opinion and here’s a great article that I always refer to on this topic:

Dual Agency Doesn’t Benefit Consumers

Asking clients to sign an agency disclosure form isn’t enough. You must explain what dual agency is and why it’s problematic.

www.nar.realtor

A bit OT, I know, but my point is that EVEN if a conflict of interest is LEGAL, it may not be ETHICAL and in my opinion dropping your client to defend the person accused of stabbing their daughter and her friends to death in their home is NOT ETHICAL.

And in this case specifically, given the nature of the charges, I do fear that this attorney’s insight into the personal lives of the victims families could come up in the defense which would be 10000% inappropriate and unacceptable.

 

[Yuletide]

Yes. And IMO the mountain of evidence may grow exponetially when LE discloses additional dna hits that they have collected after the gag order was imposed.

This is my fervent hope!

 

[Yuletide]

He did though follow all three female victims on a social media platform based on posted images and messaged one of them repeatedly, even though he hadn't received any response from her. That could be looked at as a man of 28 having an obsession with a 20 or 21 year old...AJMO

People Magazine: Idaho suspect followed victims on Instagram, 'repeatedly' messaged 1 | CNN

According to People Magazine, Brian Kohberger, the suspect charged with the killings of four University of Idaho students, followed the three female victims on Instagram and repeatedly messaged one of them without ever receiving a reply.

www.cnn.com

I’m remaining quiet on that one for now because the “source” did not reveal how many times BK messaged the victim or over what period of time. The number of times and period of time is critical in my opinion to determine if it was invasive or just a news source making money

 

[sunshineray]

If someone tried to murder me, my pit bull/ shepherd/ malamute would make sure that they leave the scene with enough fur stuck to their black clothing to build a stuffed animal replica of himself.

Hopefully Murphy is at least a low-medium shedder! I don’t think it’s likely that BK spent any time with Murph, but there could certainly have been some fur that transferred from the house or Maddie’s bedding. Fingers crossed. I really want to know what they found (if anything) in his car and his parents’ trash.

Murphy looks to me to be an Australian Labradoodle. If you google them there's quite a few pictures of AL's that look exactly like Murphy. It's said they shed very little.

AUSTRALIAN LABRADOODLE VS LABRADOODLE: 3 MAJOR DIFFERENCES – Pet Safety Crusader

Pet Safety Crusader - Pet First-Aid Kits and Pet CPR Classes by Denise Fleck

www.petsafetycrusader.com