ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide - Moscow #2

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I feel he’d definitely have self inflicted wounds. If he ran off on foot there would almost be a blood trail, wouldn’t there?
I’m on the fence with this one. If he’s extremely handy with a knife and they were asleep or passed out, he may not have suffered any wounds. If they have defensive wounds I can see things slipping and needing more force and getting out of control. My thought is I’ve butchered hundreds of chickens and haven’t cut myself, I know lots and lots of hunters that field dress deer and don’t cut themselves. Given the area, someone familiar with field dressing or meat butchering may be skilled enough with a blade to avoid injury. If it’s premeditated enough, cut resistant gloves are also available. I’ll ask one of my coworkers who loves to hunt if that style blade is used for field dressing. Obviously the blade I use for chicken and fish is much smaller. (Also I’m not out killing chickens for the fun of it, we raise and process our own broilers for us to eat.) all IMOO
 
I’ve hunted bear and deer my whole life and I’ve never cut myself dressing in the field as we keep our knives sharp and we are careful and steady.

If this were a frenzied attack with a KA-BAR, unless in the hands of someone very skilled, I can’t imagine them walking away unscathed. The size of the knife would also factor in.
 
***UPDATED NOV 16, NEW INFO IN RED***

VICTIMS:
EC = Ethan Chapin [IG / FB], a 20-year-old from Conway, Washington [1]; freshman, member of Sigma Chi fraternity majoring in recreation, sport and tourism management in the College of Education, Health and Human Sciences. [7]; school indicates hometown was Mount Vernon, WA [9]; one of triplets that all attended UofI[36]; staying overnight with his girlfriend XK [39]
FAMILY INTERVIEW: NOV 15

XK = Xana Kernodle [IG / TikTok / FB], 20, from Avondale, Arizona [1]; junior from Post Falls majoring in marketing in the College of Business and Economics, member of Pi Beta Phi sorority [7]; dating EC, worked as server at Mad Greek restaurant [36]

MM = Madison Mogen [IG / TikTok / FB], a 21-year-old from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho [1]; senior majoring in marketing in the College of Business and Economics, member of the Pi Beta Phi sorority [7]; worked as server at Mad Greek restaurant [36]

KG = Kaylee Goncalves [IG / TikTok / FB], 21, from Rathdrum, Idaho [1]; senior majoring in general studies in the College of Letters, Arts and Social Sciences, member of the Alpha Phi sorority [7]; middle of five children, owner of a dog named Murphy [31], was going to start a new tech job in TX in Jan [36]
FAMILY INTERVIEW: NOV 15 | NOV 16

LOCATION



TIMELINE

AUG 16

MM posts a "meet the roommates" image on IG [12]

AUG 22
MM posts a "first day of school" image on IG [11]

SEP 12
POSSIBLY UNRELATED: man threatened students on UofI campus with a knife [35]; students were walking to Greek Row, non-student flashed a knife to threaten students, turned self into law enforcement; cannot say whether it is connected [47]

OCT 29
XK's final IG post, wishing EC a happy birthday [13]

F NOV 11
  • MM's final IG post [10]
  • KG's final texts with her sister [31]
Sa NOV 12
  • KG's final IG post w roommates [15]
  • PM - neighbors hear loud music from somewhere "in the neighborhood"; did NOT hear screaming or gunshots [33]
  • PM - neighbors report "hearing noise from the house Saturday evening but said it sounded like a party rather than an altercation." [40]; Moscow PD states there is no indication of party at the residence [47]

Su NOV 13 - DEATH OF VICTIMS, BODIES DISCOVERED
  • [TIME?] - MM & KG took Uber to get food [43@0:45]
  • 1:33AM - 1:53AM [41] - MM & KG seen on Twitch video from Grub Truck food truck [38], where they order pasta; manager states they were "slightly intoxicated" [41] - VIDEO from Gray Hughes Investigates
  • after 1:45AM - EC & XK arrived home from a party; MM & KG arrived home from a bar [47]; MM & KG took Uber home, let dog out, locked house up [43@0:45]
  • 3AM-4AM - Estimated time of death [9]
  • 11:58AM [20] - LE respond to "a report of an unconscious person" (later verified to be one of the deceased [30]); according to EC's mother, bodies were found by "a friend" [32] who does not live in the house [39]; fire and EMS also on scene but did not go into residence [1]; First responders "discovered four individuals who were deceased" [20] - EC was found on floor of second level [36]; officers describe a bloody crime scene, "especially on upper floors of the house" [37]
  • ~12PM - coroner informed of 4 homicides [45@0:15]
  • 2:16 PM - UofI FB post advises students to shelter in place due to investigation of homicide on King St [3]
  • 2:51 PM - UofI FB post lifts shelter-in-place, states that LE are still investigating death of 4 people but do not believe there is an active threat [4]
  • ~5PM - 5:30PM - coroner arrives on scene [45@0:30]
  • 5:25PM - UofI FB post states that LE is still investigating, but there is no ongoing threat [5]
  • 9:17 PM - University president posts on FB about deaths, cancels class for M Nov 14, offers counseling resources [6]
  • PM - neighbors state they saw police, "group of women crying while draped in emergency blankets" [33]

M NOV 14 - DECLARED A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION
  • online and in-person classes at University canceled [1]

  • [TIME?] LE questioned manager of Moscow Building Supply about whether they carry KA-BAR knives, which they do not [44]
  • 12:50 PM - MSM reports that 4 students found dead near campus [1]
  • 12:21 PM - UofI FB posts identities of victims [7], states "Moscow police do not believe there is an ongoing community risk based on information gathered during the preliminary investigation" [8]
  • 1:31 PM - search dogs at scene [29]
  • 1:49 PM - MSM reports that it is being treated as homicide investigation [2]
  • PM - Moscow Police Capt. Anthony Dahlinger told the Idaho Statesman Monday night that none of the deceased students are believed to be responsible for the deaths. [9], NYT reporter also states that county coroner said it was NOT a murder-suicide [17]
  • 5:56PM - Mayor refuses to confirm NYT's "crime of passion" description [21], states it is one possibility [32]
  • PM - media tries to canvas neighbors, who decline to make a comment, "most" stating that they didn't really know the victims; state that police had previously canvassed neighborhood as well [32]

Tu NOV 15 - PRELIMINARY CAUSE OF DEATH RELEASED: STABBING
no weapon found, no suspect in custody

  • Moscow PD release statement - "Evidence indicates that this was a targeted attack." [16]
  • Some students, feeling unsafe, leave early for Thanksgiving break [18]
  • Coroner calls the scene "gruesome" [34] (comment possibly taken out of context[see 45@3:45]); does not believe toxicology report will be relevant [45@3:00]; did not know timeframe of death [45@3:00]; declines to comment on where bodies were found [45@4:20]
  • DailyMail (TABLOID) posts image they claim is blood "oozing" out of residence; state that scene was "the worst [police] had ever seen; "there was blood everywhere;" "have never seen anything like this"; trash taken to garbage depot [36]
  • KG's family interview states that door had a keypad code [42@1:45]

  • 8:36AM - vigil postponed until after Thanksgiving [28] - cf W Nov 16
  • 11:24AM - LE press release states they are still searching for "an edged weapon such as a knife" that was used in attack [27]
  • 2:07PM - LE stop garbage truck from leaving residence, as they have not recovered weapon [26]
  • 2:40PM - bodies in Spokane County, autopsies to take place on Wed; preliminary findings show stabbing as cause of death; "a lot of blood;" no indication of substance use [25]
  • 4:25PM - confirmed that FBI is working with local LE [19]
  • 6:36PM - county prosecutor states there is a sealed warrant issued at residence; "a handful of other warrants" in the works [24]
  • 7:11PM - Families of MM & KG release statement calling for justice [23]

W NOV 16
  • AM - Video shared online of MM & KG at Grub Truck food truck [38] - cf Su NOV 13
  • Parents speak out against LE & school for "lack of information [40]
  • Manager of Moscow Building Supply states that LE questioned them "more than once" about whether they carry KA-BAR knives, including on M Nov 14; he states they do not [44] - cf M NOV 14

  • 3:30PM - news conference planned by ISP & Moscow PD [22]
    • Moscow PD chief speaks
      • victims arrived home after 1:45 AM from party (EC & XK) and bar (MM & KG) [47] - cf Su Nov 13
      • no sign of forced entry - no damage to anything; door was open when LE arrived [47]
      • autopsies taking place today [47]
      • reviewing crime scene evidence, video, etc [47]
      • do not have a suspect, weapon, or clothing of suspect at this time - cannot say there is no threat to community [47]
      • no indication of party at the residence [47] - cf Sa Nov 12
      • there were ("we believe 2") other people (roommates) home at the time of the attack; was not a hostage situation and were not injured; they were present at residence when LE arrived; declines to comment on what they have stated [47]
      • declines to comment on who the 911 caller was [47]
      • has not identified anything missing/stolen from the residence [47]
      • declines to comment on location of bodies within the residence [47]
      • Sep 12 incident - students were walking to Greek Row, non-student flashed a knife to threaten students, turned self into law enforcement; cannot say whether it is connected [47] - cf Sep 12
  • 5PM - vigil to be held in Coeur d' Alene, ID [46]
  • 5PM - vigil planned on University's Administration Lawn [9] - postponed as of T NOV 15 [28] rescheduled to NOV 30 [34]

SOURCES:
[1] 4 University of Idaho students found dead near campus - 6ABC - Nov 14
[2] Four university students found dead near campus - MirrorUK - Nov 14
[3] UofI FB - Nov 13
[4] UofI FB - Nov 13
[5] UofI FB - Nov 13
[6] UofI FB - Nov 13
[7] UofI FB - Nov 14
[8] UofI FB - Nov 14
[9] 4 Slain University of Idaho students are victims - ElkoDaily - Nov 14
[10] MM Instagram - Nov 11
[11] MM Instagram - Aug 22
[12] MM Instagram - Aug 16
[13] XK Instagram - Oct 29
[14] EC Instagram - May 13
[15] KG Instagram - Nov 12
[16] Moscow PD - Nov 15
[17] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet - Nov 14
[18] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[19] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet - Nov 15
[20] Four university of Idaho Students discovered dead - Law&Crime - Nov 15
[21] @AndrewBaertlein (KTVB) tweet - Nov 14
[22] @AndrewBaertlein (KTVB) tweet - Nov 16
[23] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[24] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[25] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[26] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[27] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[28] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[29] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 14
[30] @dugganreports (KTVB) tweet - Nov 15
[31] Family of alleged Moscow homicide victim remembers - Nov 14
[32] Suspect sought in U of I deaths - Idaho Statesman - Nov 15
[33] Four U of I students died in senseless act of violence - LM Tribute - Nov 14
[34] Homicide investigation underway - KHQ - Nov 15
[35] Man reportedly threatened students with knife - ISJ - Sep 15
[36] Blood oozes through walls of home - DailyMail (TABLOID) - Nov 15
[37] University of Utah homicide victims - FoxNews - Nov 15
[38] @johnwebbtv (KHQ-TV) - Nov 16
[39] 4 Idaho students killed in 'targeted attack' - ABCNews - Nov 16
[40] Slain university of Idaho victims' parents frustrated - ABCNews - Nov 16
[41] Chilling video shows 2 of the 4 - DailyMail (TABLOID) - Nov 16
[42] Extended interview with the family of Kaylee Goncalves VIDEO - KHQ - Nov 15
[43] Idaho College Students murdered in 'Crime of Passion' VIDEO - Inside Edition - Nov 16
[44] Police investigation narrows to search for combat-style knife - Idaho Statesman - Nov 16
[45] Latah County Coroner says all four students killed near University of Idaho were victims - KREM - Nov 15
[46] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 16
[47] Moscow Police Dept Press Conference - Nov 16

Apologies if asked and answered-the 911 call was regarding an unconscious person. Has it been confirmed that whomever was referred to as unconscious was one of the 4 victims? I am just trying to put every random thought out of my head, and this one came up when we learned that the other two roommates were at home.
From the timeline quoted above --

Su NOV 13
11:58AM [20] - LE respond to "a report of an unconscious person" (later verified to be one of the deceased [30])
 
Murphy has been one of my top questions that press haven't asked about. I tweeted at someone in local news to ask about him. Hopefully that'll get traction.

Anyway, my 2 cents on dogs: I have lived with two different roommates who had dogs and I have also owned dogs myself. They almost always sleep with their owners, either in the bed or on the floor next to the bed. If they keep the dog in a locked room, the dog was there. If the door was open, then it's possible the dog could have investigated noise or been elsewhere getting water/food.

However, it's possible a dog could be locked into a room and neutralized that way, or with treats. Or, there's the worst-case scenario we're all dreading. But it begs the question of whether someone came prepared knowing there was a dog or if they were surprised to find a dog.

To me this perp fits either of the following categories:
  • A campus/work peer who knows the house and all the residents well enough to know rooms, behaviors, key codes, dogs, everything about their lives, and someone who could have been invited in if they arrived at the door. They specifically targeted individual(s) out of anger/obsession, etc. This is the toxic ex-boyfriend theory.
    • This person is also potentially the 911 caller who called out of guilt for their actions after noticing that police still hadn't arrived. They are on the run or have committed suicide.
    • This person would know there is a dog present but the dog might know the perp and would not react.
    • This person wouldn't have had a target on all the women in the house, likely thinking "I liked X and Y, I don't have to harm them."
      • However, I don't think this is likely because I think police would have already had names in mind based on statements from the roommates that survived and also the family and other friends interviewed. So I'm less and less convinced it was a friend/SO of the residents.
  • An obsessive stalker, either a peer or older, someone local, a neighbor or a classmate or coworker, who was not well known to the victims but someone who paid careful attention to them. Potentially canvassed their house, potentially was a peeping tom, so they were someone who knew their habits or had an idea of who the residents were. Maybe one of the women slighted him once and he is "punishing" them. This is the angry stalker theory.
    • This person could also have been the 911 caller after feeling guilt that they killed their objection of obsession.
    • This person would be aware of a dog in the house and come prepared for it.
    • This person would not have had a target on all the women, maybe just one or two he concentrated on, so he spared seeking out all rooms.
  • An unknown third party who picked a house at random, or picked the victims at random, because their goal was to kill whoever they picked. This is the psychotic serial killer theory.
    • This is the town's worst fear. This is someone careful, prepared, and completely unknown.
    • This person might have followed the women to their home or picked it at random after searching for a target house that "looked good."
    • Think GSK, think Night Stalker, think Bundy, someone with outrageous overconfidence and selfish pursuit of committing terror.
    • This person could have called 911 because they liked reporting their work. It could account for Chief Fry demonstrating discomfort and frustration while briefly acknowledging the 911 caller who he refused to discuss.
Regarding the 911 caller, it does not seem at this time that the roommates were the caller. I don't see what benefit there would be to Chief Fry withholding the knowledge that one of the roommates called 911. That seems super easy to say. In fact, it's expected. The fact that he has not confirmed one of the roommates called makes me wonder if there was another caller who said "unconscious" since Chief Fry agreed, that's not how normal people would report a stabbing. Moreover, if the roommates were sleeping in after a late night, perhaps the police woke them up and they found the scene at that time?

If the police eventually confirm the roommates were the 911 caller, I don't know what they think they gained by hiding that. Not discussing who called makes it seem like it was the perp.
Right now I'm leaning toward a very disorganized Ted Bundy type.
 
Apologies if asked and answered-the 911 call was regarding an unconscious person. Has it been confirmed that whomever was referred to as unconscious was one of the 4 victims? I am just trying to put every random thought out of my head, and this one came up when we learned that the other two roommates were at home.
It seems to me that the first responders arrived at the location of the reported unconscious person and instead found 4 victims that were deceased. There was no indication that first responders treated an individual who was unconscious so I'm inclined to believe the two roommates presented safe and unharmed. MOO
 
IDK, was he? All I know is when the Bever brothers stabbed five family members to death, when they were captured, they had wounds on their hands and arms. LE said the wounds were from struggling with the victims while they were being stabbed and the getting caught by their own knife blades. So I assumed this would be common when trying to stab people to death during a struggle. Most people are going to put up a huge fight when being stabbed to death. I think the only way to avoid such wounds on the perp would be if the victims were asleep or incapacitated to the point where there was no struggle.
If you read about Bundy's sorority house attack it doesn't say. But what is interesting is the testimony of one of the girls who survived. She said she heard him come into the room but couldn't see him and was unable to react in time to defend herself. I think MOO that this helps understand how an attack like this could happen.
The house in Idaho is large. If a person enters a dark bedroom wearing black clothing it would be very hard to see them. By the time you could see and react from a sound sleep it would be too late.

It is possible that on weekends many people came and went at various hours, especially if boyfriends came and went throughout the night. Hearing noises at 3:00 am really wouldn't be a cause for concern.

It is MOO that the police may consider the 911 caller a suspect, otherwise why not say " we know who it is, they've been cleared but we aren't releasing their identity.

This will be a potentially tough case. Because the perp is probably young it is likely his DNA is not in the system. Students have left campus en masse so if he's a student then he's gone home as well, who knows where that may be. With many people having access to the house keypad code it could be literally anyone. MOO but that is a horrible security set up, especially for college kids. It amounts to having a perpetually unlocked door. MOO
 
I’m on the fence with this one. If he’s extremely handy with a knife and they were asleep or passed out, he may not have suffered any wounds. If they have defensive wounds I can see things slipping and needing more force and getting out of control. My thought is I’ve butchered hundreds of chickens and haven’t cut myself, I know lots and lots of hunters that field dress deer and don’t cut themselves. Given the area, someone familiar with field dressing or meat butchering may be skilled enough with a blade to avoid injury. If it’s premeditated enough, cut resistant gloves are also available. I’ll ask one of my coworkers who loves to hunt if that style blade is used for field dressing. Obviously the blade I use for chicken and fish is much smaller. (Also I’m not out killing chickens for the fun of it, we raise and process our own broilers for us to eat.) all IMOO
When you dress a deer, the deer is already dead and not fighting back.
 
I have enhanced the audio in the video from the food truck stream, the victim wearing the black coat points twice at the two males behind her, and the second time she points she says "Stop being weird".. you might have to turn up your volume a bit more


View attachment 380485
The first time I listened, I heard, "Stop being weird." The second time I listened, I heard, "Stop being rude."
 
<snipped> From above DailyMail article:

On Wednesday, police revealed both D and B were in the modest Moscow home at the time of the attack but miraculously survived the carnage.

Speaking to DailyMail.com, Idaho State Police spokesman Aaron Snell said the two survivors are helping police with their investigation but would not give further details of how they survived or whether either Dylan or Bethany called 911 later on Sunday morning.

He also told DailyMail.com the pair are not suspects but said every possibility is being looked at by the investigative team which now includes detectives from the Idaho State Police and the FBI as well as the Moscow Police Department.
 
One more add, small town, not many hotels, hopefully LE has visited everyone and checked not only cameras but drivers licenses and room registration records. AMOO
I have children at WSU in Pullman. It is only just across the border. Nov 11-13 was the fall parents weekend. Hotels and airbnbs were pretty much sold out for months (I had booked mine in Pullman back in March!)

With Moscow being so close, plenty of parents end up booking hotels there. Based on the WSU parents group always having posts about people desperate to find a place to stay, I’m pretty confident in saying that hotels in Moscow were likely completely full.

The shelter in place on Sunday went out to WSU students as well. All it said was that there had been a homicide in Moscow, and then it was lifted fairly quickly. We had no idea the magnitude of what had happened until we woke up and saw the news while getting ready to leave Pullman Monday morning.
 
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