ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

[SkyBoomer]

The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of November 13th is the co-owner of the dog.

Source

Wow! Just noticed the subtle change in yesterday’s update!

Iirc, the statement before was that the calls to that person were not connected to the murders, but the LEO didn’t state that the recipient was not involved. I think that odd sidestep raised more than a few eyebrows.

Thank you for posting this. I honestly wouldn’t have known about the clarification or would have skimmed over it!

 

[indicolite22]

We don't know that the roommates actually reported someone as being unconscious. Sure this is what LE has released about the 911 call but they also won't release the 911 call so you can't be sure that this is what really happened. I agree with you about the amount of blood. I unfortunately remember seeing crime scene photos from Simpson trial and there was an incredible and unforgettable amount of blood. I think it's likely that a roommate woke saw the trail of blood left from the killer or potentially transferred from the dog, which is terrible to think about. But had that happened I would imagine that someone wouldn't want to investigate further but would flee and call 911 in an absolute state of shock and terror. I think the 911 call is being held from the public to somehow protect the families' from the audio. It would be terrible to hear such a call. If it were just something as simple as someone not responding or being unconscious I don't know why they wouldn't release it.

On the 911 call, the caller(s) likely revealed some of the victims' locations and the state of the crime scene in general. At this point LE don't want the public to know those details. Interestingly the witnesses didn't appear to have spoken to the media about it either.
Hypothetically, if the witnesses found a victim in a pool of blood, it wouldn't be reported to 911 as merely an unconscious person. That would be more likely if the victims were locked in their rooms or were blocking the doors. Due to the blood dripping on the outside of the house, at least one victim was likely found in a room on the 2nd floor, perhaps not on the bed, but next to a wall. (All IMO)

 

[flippyflappy]

Exactly re your first paragraph.
Regarding young people and genetic testing, I think many are paranoid about having their DNA out there. MOO.

Well even if they haven't done genetic testing, someone in their family probably has. I have over 7K genetic relatives on 23 and me. So I'd assume it might help with process of elimiation if nothing else.

 

[layer]

I’m attaching a couple of more photos from Google earth of the victim’s home and the apartment buildings and houses around it. I think early on when the photos of the investigators were taken, they were scoping out all possible lines of sight (LOS), looking at the driveway that went up beside the scene to the back lot, and looking for cameras. One photo also shows an investigator looking over towards the house to the right of 1122 King Rd. from directly behind the house, (not up in the back lot).

Do you lean toward the perp being a neighbor?

 

[SkyBoomer]

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about the statement regarding the 911 call that focuses on the term unconscious.

It has been mentioned that unconscious/passed out is a generic dispatch term for anyone who is not responsive but there has been no indication that the roommates saw nothing overly concerning.

I would suggest that because the seem to have called others and dispatch seems to have talked to multiple people from one phone, there was a significant amount of panic and confusion.

There was likely discussion about about the scene that should not be released to the public at this time.

BBM. I think this is most likely the reasoning for not releasing the 911 call. Not necessarily graphic details (MOO is that the surviving roommates et al, did not see any of that), but rather info about open doors, locked doors, cracked windows, etc. that LE needs to keep under wraps.

 

[AngTxGal]

Police are asking for information specifically from around the Arboretum and highway near the university. This is the route you would take to the house from Sigma Chi, where E and X were on the night. Not the girls who were in the city. Is this significant? Do LE think the target may have been X or E (Or both). The correlation of why they are interested in that area I presume is not coincidence and some evidence is leading them there.

Below are the boundaries of area where they are asking for video footage. It looks to be about 1 square mile. All of it is off campus, most all of it is south of the house. The only portion that is north of the house is from the house to Taylor Drive- which is what King Road drops into.
So, why not extend the mile onto campus? It is as if they are assuming a perp would not leave the scene and go north onto campus.
Why? Do they have enough cameras along that side of campus to rule that out? Maybe

Moscow PD Update
Detectives are seeking all outside surveillance video taken from 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. on Sunday, November 13th, from businesses and residences within the geographical area listed below:

• West Taylor Ave (north boundary)
• West Palouse River Dr (south boundary)
• Highway 95 south to the 2700 block of Highway 95 S (east boundary)
• Arboretum & Botanical Garden (west boundary)

JMO

 

[eyesopen]

I’m attaching a couple of more photos from Google earth of the victim’s home and the apartment buildings and houses around it. I think early on when the photos of the investigators were taken, they were scoping out all possible lines of sight (LOS), looking at the driveway that went up beside the scene to the back lot, and looking for cameras. One photo also shows an investigator looking over towards the house to the right of 1122 King Rd. from directly behind the house, (not up in the back lot).

Yep and here's another one of them checking LOS yesterday:

 

[scottr]

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about the statement regarding the 911 call that focuses on the term unconscious.

It has been mentioned that unconscious/passed out is a generic dispatch term for anyone who is not responsive but there has been no indication that the roommates saw nothing overly concerning.

I would suggest that because the seem to have called others and dispatch seems to have talked to multiple people from one phone, there was a significant amount of panic and confusion.

There was likely discussion about about the scene that should not be released to the public at this time.

Yes absolutely. Also many are saying that the roommates called friends prior to calling 911. According to the press release, "On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence." This doesn't necessarily mean they literally called someone using a phone. While in a state of panic, they could have ran outside and "called" over a neighbor that was reported as "friends." Hence the term: summoned.

 

[soap mama]

Hi Soap Mama I'm Australian, we don't have 'Frats' here, can you explain your
Theory a little more -whats the 'i hate greeks' - third floor connection? Sounds interesting! Thank you

Hey Olivia!

I think something happened in Ethan's fraternity, maybe someone got kicked out, or maybe someone wasn't invited to join.

Since all the victims were in fraternities (male) and sororities (female), i think it's was rage and jealousy in general towards Greek life.
And possibly one of the victims had "slighted"
The perp (in his mind)

 

[rescuemom]

This has been discussed a lot. I don’t find 911 timing unusual. They’re all college kids who probably don’t get up till noon on weekends so that would be normal.

Also “unconscious “ is probably the verbiage used by 911, not roommates. It is curious the period of time it took for LE to confirm call was made on roommates phone, but won’t say exactly who called.

Iirc, the 911 operator asked the caller if the person who the caller thought had passed out was conscious and the caller said no. I think that is where unconscious came from. Just verbiage for dispatch of EMS and LE, not a fact of the condition of the person. Also, wasn't it reported that a body was blocking a door so that the door could not be opened fully or wakened which would prompt the caller to think they just had passed out.

 

[DizzyB]

I’m attaching a couple of more photos from Google earth of the victim’s home and the apartment buildings and houses around it. I think early on when the photos of the investigators were taken, they were scoping out all possible lines of sight (LOS), looking at the driveway that went up beside the scene to the back lot, and looking for cameras. One photo also shows an investigator looking over towards the house to the right of 1122 King Rd. from directly behind the house, (not up in the back lot).

It felt to me like they were looking for cameras. Or they had found cameras, and footage already, that didn’t show what someone told them should be there. Eg “I was at the house at midnight, went upstairs to the third floor, went into someone’s room and then I left and drove down Blank St to my apartment”. Yeah then how come footage doesn’t show a light in the 3rd floor window, and your car wasn’t captured on that footage?

 

[saralsim]

Bringing this forward from earlier thread, because I think it's a good reminder of how complex the blood and other dna evidence is in this case where you had so many people routinely visiting the house. So much dna would have been present and the process of elimination may be much longer than any of us would like. JMO

Seekingthehidden​

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• Thursday at 9:26 AM
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A little about DNA testing: I worked 26 years in a profession involving DNA testing. Mixed DNA takes time to sort out. There are advances since my technical work in this field so any WS member with updated info please correct me if my "old school" explanation needs an update. Crime scene DNA is collected, lots of it and it's labeled, (I'll leave out the highly scientific boring details). Through a series of incubation steps, with various temperature, pressure, and use of markers or tags, like fluorescence, and KNOWN DNA mixed with UNKNOWN DNA, results are interpreted after much time. KNOWN DNA is directly from a blood draw from the victims. UNKNOWN DNA is the scattered blood at the crime scene. Imagine the probably thousands of samples taken. Like attracts like, this is a natural scientific occurrence. The KNOWN DNA is split, (DNA is a double helix). KNOWN DNA is marked chemically with a tag visible usually something that illuminates and can be read microscopically or otherwise, (technical). So half of a KNOWN DNA strand is floating around in a mixture which includes an UNKNOWN sample from crime scene. A bonding will occur if there's a matching half in the mixture. The more strands that bond, the brighter the luminescence. Results without a "glow" are a negative match. There will come a point when crime scene samples won't match any victims. Then they'll look at the buccal smears collected, (or whatever method they've used to collect DNA samples from survivors. They'll test blood, skin cells, collected that doesn't match the victims. I apologize if this is confusing, it's complicated. Imagine a tray filled with same size circle shaped holes. Add a bowl of shapes; circles, squares, triangles. Rick the tray and the circles fill the holes, they match. Next tray is square holes, add the different shapes again and rock the tray. The square shapes fall and fit into the square holes. It's simplistic but not far off from DNA matching minus the positive and negative charges related to how the double helix connects.

 

[rescuemom]

The dog could be very relevant if a person entered the home while all of the residents were out on the town. If K had moved out and wasn’t regularly there, then the dog hadn’t been there. The perp could have come into the home before, when the dog wasn’t there.
So now How could a stranger hide in the home and wait for them to come home? Wouldn’t the dog give them up?
Letting the dog outside would prevent giving them up, but it would also confuse the girls when they arrived home.
If we assume there was interaction between all of the roommates when they ended their evening at home- if the dog was missing the surviving roommates would then know. They all would have been outside looking. Also the calls to JD would include a text or voicemail saying the dog was not in the house- missing.
Lots of speculation- but I’m of the opinion that the dog matters.
They kept it inside, he was not equipped with fur to be outside in sub freezing temps. So, how does a dog react if a stranger comes into the home and murders four people?
Wouldn’t he have evidence on him? Yes, even if he was in common area and the doors to rooms were closed. The perp had to cross the path of the dog unless he was crated??
I suppose we will find out if the perp has dog hair on him?
Blood spatter on clothing is a perfect place for pet hair to stick!
JMO

If the dog was let out, it would eventually come back and start barking outside causing lots of noise to other neighbors, I would think.

 

[layer]

It felt to me like they were looking for cameras. Or they had found cameras, and footage already, that didn’t show what someone told them should be there. Eg “I was at the house at midnight, went upstairs to the third floor, went into someone’s room and then I left and drove down Blank St to my apartment”. Yeah then how come footage doesn’t show a light in the 3rd floor window, and your car wasn’t captured on that footage?

Ooooo, good feeling!

 

[SortaSleuthy]

Solving a murder using Genetic DNA doesn't involve the murderers DNA being in the database at all. As a hobby, I find people's biological families. They submit their DNA then you divide their matches into 4 groups, one for each grandparent. Then you use each branch of their matches to build a family tree. Where it converges is where you'll find their biological parent. You never know how long it's going to take. I found one person's dad in 24hrs and she's been searching for 20 years! I'm working one right now that's super difficult, I've been at it for over 6 months. Of course, when someone is doing it for LE they have many more resources available.

(And I'm not tooting my own horn, I've done genealogy for 20+ years, anyone can do it once you learn the ropes)

Exactly correct! I’ve been an amateur genealogist for four years using Ancestry.com, 23/me, access to government records and digital copies of newspapers. It took me 4 months to find my paternal grandparents. My father was accidentally switched at birth at an adoption center so all I had to use was 2nd and 3rd cousin DNA. (Adoption center records for 1914 were lost in a fire.)

 

[SkyBoomer]

Yes absolutely. Also many are saying that the roommates called friends prior to calling 911. According to the press release, "On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence." This doesn't necessarily mean they literally called someone using a phone. While in a state of panic, they could have ran outside and "called" over a neighbor that was reported as "friends." Hence the term: summoned.

I never thought of that! Especially if they are friends with someone who lives in they grey apartments across the way- where some folks think those last group photos were taken.

Makes perfect sense.

I also thought there was some possibility that E had plans that morning and friends came by when they couldn’t get ahold of him on his phone. I wonder if that is what woke the roommates. Just MOO.

 

[scottr]

A lot of people just shove this off as he is probably looking at the lock. I thought the same at first. But if you look at the window sill, there's a bunch of items that would not have been there had someone came in through that window where an investigator would need to inspect a lock. He does seem to be looking for sight lines.

 

[Kdot112]

I really am starting to wonder with a smidge tighter of a timeframe if KG was calling JD because (hate to bring back up the dog) lol but she was unable to find the dog! She returned home, ate her food, maybe changed her clothes, washed her face whatever, she then realized her pet was no where around because the perp had already did a quick run through of the home and let the dog out in fear it would would interrupt his plans later on?! I’m not sure the murdered stuck around until everyone was asleep, I feel like he maybe was comfortable coming in and out of the home… all just my own crazy thoughts!

That’s most likely what happened.

 

[AngTxGal]

MOO but I disagree.. There is a vast difference between being followed on a jog and being murdered in your bed while asleep.

Exactly! Trivia for you Crime Junkies…
What and When was the last case where all these things happened?—
- multiple people killed
- brutally killed
- In their own residence
- in an urban area, there are neighbors
- during the night
- victims have no criminal history
- no connections to drugs, mafia, cartel
- no burglary
- no sexual assault
- no one seems to have heard or seen anything
- two weeks goes by without any POI

This situation is quite rare, how can anyone feel safe if they cannot ensure their own safety in their own home?
That is why this has our attention, IMO

 

[SkyBoomer]

A lot of people just shove this off as he is probably looking at the lock. I thought the same at first. But if you look at the window sill, there's a bunch of items that would not have been there had someone came in through that window where an investigator would need to inspect a lock. He does seem to be looking for sight lines.

I was one of those who thought he was looking at the lock. But the crouch wouldn’t be necessary and yes, those photos and decorative items wouldn’t have still been there if this was the entry point. Or exit, for that matter.