ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 14

[layer]

I also think they probably have a suspect or suspects in mind.

The police said in their 11/25 post:
"At this time, there are no named suspects, no arrests and no weapon has been found." BBM

They were less ambiguous in the 11/25 Press Release, saying:

At this time, no suspect has been identified

Press Release 11/25

 

[andalso]

How often does the food truck driver stream live?
Was it a routine?
Did college students tend to watch it?
Did locals watch it?
Sure would be interesting to know who was watching and if that plays into any of this.

 

[SkyBoomer]

Does anyone know when Rush is at the University of Idaho? At my daughter’s college, they do it in the spring. But most universities do it in the fall. I wonder if this is somebody who tried to rush either of the sororities the victims belonged to, but was rejected.

I read that at UOfI, rush is just before school starts- late August, I believe.

 

[Centaurus]

I have read what the coroner have said and what LE had relayed to the public. There’s a reason their language is strategically worded. They didn’t say this for a “fact”, for example the coroner said they were “likely” asleep. She didn’t say it as 100% factual. Same with LE, their words always contains “we believe” “we do not believe” vague and not 100% certainty.

My husband is a police detective for a major crime unit in a city with 300 homicides just in 2022. I asked him these questions and he had explained why certain words were used at times when they’re in the investigation phase.

Any chance you could ask your husband if it’s normal to have the prosecutor come out to the crime scene? Also, could LE already be holding someone in custody while they gather more evidence and build a case?

Thanks!!

 

[annpats]

I said it would be my instinct. In reality, I hope never to find out!

Good point! Me too!

 

[ktm44]

It’s been discussed multiple times that the “unconscious person” bit is likely standard coding for the dispatcher when there is an unresponsive person, even if they are clearly/apparently dead

Only certain occupations can legally make a declaration of death.

I also read a comment about 911 dispatching the coroner. I doubt they would because it’s no longer an emergency and police departments have a direct number to contact the coroner.

 

[SkyBoomer]

My recollection was that the first images of the slider we saw had the stools standing up and away from the door. Later in the investigation, the images show the slider blocked with the stools. It seemed to me as if LE put the stools there to keep investigators from going in and out that door. JMO, though. If you go back and check pictures you might see something different than I did.

This was my take, as well. Thank you.

 

[SkyBoomer]

<modsnip - quoted post was rumor/no link>
Police have not said where any of the victims were found or that anyone was outside of the bedrooms, only that SOME of the victims were in their beds when killed.

Those who were not may have still been in a bedroom, but perhaps against a wall with poorly constructed joints which would allow a large volume of viscous fluid to drip onto the building’s exterior.

MOO

 

[andalso]

This is exactly my question - how was it determined they were attacked while asleep.

I hate hate hate to ask this but I have wondered if duct tape was put over their mouths. I have considered it due to the lack of anyone hearing anything. If, per chance, that was the case I wonder if that would help determine whether they were asleep or awake? Although, I am not sure exactly how it might help determine that.

 

[BlueTunes]

How did she know they were asleep while attacked? I think she could reasonable state that if the victim was lying in bed dead, but for example, if a victim was lying dead in a hallway, how could she determine that they had been asleep, were attacked, got up and then died in the hallway?

MOO I wonder if the blankets they slept with had puncture marks.

 

[hopewell]

Well, a perp would know about the first floor if he'd seen the house from the front. It's obviously a 3 storey house.
So you think he only ever saw the house from the back?

Since he killed everyone on the first and second floor, and evidently in their sleep, I feel like if he had known about the others he would have killed them too. So yes, I guess that would mean he wouldn't have known the first floor was there and perhaps only saw the house from the rear. Or, it didn't occur to him when he came in from the back that there was a floor beneath with more people, even if he had seen the house from the front. It's a fairly weird layout.

My opinion.

 

[Kdot112]

On the one hand I fully understand why they aren't releasing much information at all. It's the best way to ensure you have the right perp if someone confesses since they will know information that isn't public.

On the other hand I'm not always convinced LE makes the decisions when it comes to not releasing information. The one I always think of is poor Scott Ratigan. He was murdered in Arlington, VA in 2020. A year after his murder, LE released several CCTV clips they had of his murderer in the area near his building. I am a firm believer that LE made a crucial error here. They should have released those clips immediately. There was a MUCH higher chance of someone seeing those images and remembering something days afterwards vs a year later.

I am feeling similarly about the request for videos/images here. You can tell the dad wants to say more but LE doesn't want him to. Maybe LE has almost everything they need and is just hoping for further support. Fine. But if they're stuck at all I think they need to come out and give some more information about what exactly they are looking for, or not looking for, in the images or videos. These vague requests "If you have anything from the area that night please let us know" just isn't going to get everything out there. I guarantee there are people out there with a selfie of themselves or a drunk video in a bar who think, no matter what LE says, their photo is not useful. But if LE explained a bit "we need this area, around this time" I think they'd have way more luck. Could it possibly make a false confession easier? I suppose. But if they're lacking in information to find a suspect at all, they need to weigh pros and cons.

It also sounds like Kaylee's dad is frustrated. He's deferring to LE because he knows this is their job but if this case goes on much longer with an arrest, I feel like he and other parents may start releasing information on their own to try and gather more evidence. Whether you agree with them doing that or not this is reality and LE needs to be mindful of this.

I think they are mindful of this. This is why I also think they solved the crime relatively quickly. Now they are likely working to build an airtight case while keeping the assailant under surveillance.

All of their answers on the news have reflected this. Their tactics would be different if they had zero clue. They seem beyond confident.

Lastly, I think if there actually was a killer still on the loose, LE would repeatedly tell the public to “watch out, lock your doors, alert!, mass killer on the loose!!” . I don’t see that at all with any interviews and news reports. They are very subdued and ask the public to “be vigilant.”

 

[SkyBoomer]

I hate hate hate to ask this but I have wondered if duct tape was put over their mouths. I have considered it due to the lack of anyone hearing anything. If, per chance, that was the case I wonder if that would help determine whether they were asleep or awake? Although, I am not sure exactly how it might help determine that.

I believe one of the LE updates stated that the victims were not bound or gagged. I will try to find that latest update with the bullet points— it may be a sticky at the beginning of the thread but I will check!

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Hmmm...the old sofa and what looks like a makeshift homeless encampment?

This is a college town: indoor furniture like couches, recliners, tables & chairs outside are very common, even in this climate.

 

[OldCop]

Interesting hypothesis, but I feel that if any of them were awake enough to get up and defend themselves against a single perpetrator that one or more would have escaped or had time to call someone. Likewise, I imagine the girls under them would have heard some screams or similar.

My opinion.

I still feel that a hypothesis that I posted earlier could allow for X to have woken up, seen E being attacked, and jumped up to try and pull off the attacker.
My theory was based on the possibility that E got up to use the bathroom, get a snack or whatever and met the intruder, possibly as he was coming down the stairs from the third floor. E may have backed into the bedroom waking X up as he came under attack from the killer. The killer had all his attention focused on E, he had to or run the risk of being overtaken by him. If your loved one was in the process of being attacked, most folks would try to do something to help them; hit them over the head with a lamp, a laptop, jump on his back, anything to try and stop the assault. Some people may try to make a break for it and run, but you wouldn’t sit there in the room and dial 911 while this was going on.
From all we hear, X and E had been together at least a year and seem to be a happy couple. I think either one would have fought to save the other. If it happened in the way I described, E’s first wound may not have been lethal. The extra seconds might have given X a chance to stage an attempt at saving E.
I have no idea if this is even close to what happened that night, but it is a possibility. Most of your theories imply that there is no way any of the victims could have put up a front against the killer. IMHO, I think they could.
As an aside, stabbing victims sometimes die because they ran from their attacker. Running makes your heart pump faster and increases your chances of bleeding out sooner.

 

[hopewell]

So one thing that I haven't seen posted - but I admittedly haven't read everything - is how did this perp see while inside the home between 3-6AM if everyone was asleep? Probably not a lot of light, if any, eh? So, was he wearing night vision specs? If so, that would indicate a methodical plan to kill, and a pretty sadistic one. That would be Buffalo Bill-like.

My opinion.

 

[di anna]

MOO I wonder if the blankets they slept with had puncture marks.

The two girls were drinking heavily or slipped something, (maybe) so I would think after they ate they passed out. I think in those circumstances the first hour that you sleep you are really out, ie: sleeping heavily. Then the other two may have been really inebriated also. So maybe they were zonked out due to the late hour and drinking. Maybe saying sleeping is a decent way of saying gonzo.

 

[LooksSusToMe]

Good post @Zinn
I feel as though this was cold & calculated. When I was in college, my BF lived with me even though my name was on the lease in my off-campus apartment. My roommate also had her BF stay there frequently as well. I think E probably stayed most nights with X.

If the killer’s not a stranger, he would know E was mostly there at night. I think the killer knew he had to wait until everyone in the house was sound asleep in order to carry out this attack especially with a strong male to deal with.

The lack of blood trail anywhere outside the scene is really something. That doesn’t say spur-of-the-moment rage to me, but planned and precautionary aka premeditated.

Question: Does University of Idaho have a traditional rival college in sports?

 

[CaliUnicorn21]

I've been saying from the start that how could the ME, or anyone, know if someone was asleep? One might assume that they were asleep based on the time of night, or being found in beds, but I doubt that anyone could say conclusively that they were asleep. Someone on these threads pointed out that an Apple watch or Fitbit can tell if someone is sleeping but then, all 4 would have had to be wearing onefor each to be labeled as "asleep", right?
MOO

Probably has to do with blood pooling, lack of defensive wounds, location of the victims, other forensic information gathered from the scene. MOO

 

[Missyrocks5]

Which interview is this? I can't find it in the media thread. Can you link please?

I’m sorry. I don’t know how. But it was last night on Fox. I heard it was about this case so I recorded it. Lawrence Jones is his name.