ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18

[Petunia83]

Wait… what??

Ok…
I DVR’d yesterday’s late night news… so I’m sitting here this morning listening and catching up on things, and next thing I know, Fox News at Night reports that the MPD has revised the statement that they have stuck with since day one… About these attacks being targeted… according to Fox (&CNN), LE has apparently walked that back and the one consistent thing that we’ve been told since the very beginning, vehemently, over and over, about how this was targeted… But that they couldn’t expound upon that because it was “integral to the investigation”… now, this may not even be the case at all? I have to say, the first thing that went through my mind were the words of Capt. Lanier during MPD’s second press briefing… since MPD has been so adamant that this was targeted, a reporter asked that if so, why not tell the public who they believe the target or targets were? I recalled Captain Lanier’s response this morning clear as day… “You’re just going to have to trust us”… I even went back and re-watched the press conference this morning just to make sure I wasn’t losing my mind… Since I can’t send you guys a link to my DVR of CNN and Fox, here’s an article I found on it from CNN: It's unclear if the 4 University of Idaho students killed were targeted in the attack, officials now say | CNN

…but beyond what was reported last night, I can’t seem to find any additional details or elaboration about this… Has anyone seen or heard any additional details you could possibly forward?

You know, I have a lot of respect for police officers. A lot. And there are so many local, state, and federal agencies who are all hands on deck with this… and I realize that we certainly do not have all of the facts, and are not at all privy to everything that they are… and I am not accusing anyone of ineptitude or anything… But honestly, hearing this was extremely disappointing… I have really been giving the benefit of the doubt about this the entire time… They’ve repeated it over and over and over, and when they said they couldn’t speak in further detail about it, I accepted that, as well, assuming that they truly were trying to protect the investigation, catch the guy, and do so in a way that would be sure to deliver those victims and their families every bit of justice that they deserve, because they were keeping everything close to the chest… And believing it was for the sake of getting it right, leaking nothing, making sure that they could nail the perpetrator to the wall in the end, I accepted it. Overall, I’m not going to sit here and accuse LE of bungling this or anything else as that would be purely speculation on my part, but I have to admit, I do feel disappointed, and I feel a lot less confident in them. Like I said, the first words that came to my mind were Captain Lanier’s… “You’re just going to have to trust us”

Here is a link to the press conference I’m referencing from Nov. 23rd if anyone wants to review that again. I’m also attaching two screenshots… one that will show a timestamp you can fast forward to, and another one that will show the quoted statement. King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

If anyone can please respond if you have additional details, I would greatly appreciate it… I cannot find anything else anywhere that delves into any further explaination…

Thanks in advance!

 

[OldCop]

This troubles me.

If true, this fact, so far, been known only to the killer and the LE team.

This detail could explain to some detail what was on killer's mind when he went to kill and did not stop until he killed 4 people. It is purely insider's information and the parent should have thought of why LE is not willing to disclose it. Because LE have reasons not to disclose this and others known only to them and the killer facts. Such as where the dog was, where the bodies were, which flatmate was attacked first etc. Just to name few.

Why do you think they do not want to disclose? Hardly unlikely just because they want to keep their cards close to the chest.

There are other reasons.

Imagine that tomorrow someone goes to Idaho police station and says 'i did it' and starts telling a story based on facts which mostly media and some of the parents are so willing to report.

Then, the police starts investigating his story, allocating resources and effectivelly stops investigating other leads they have now.

Only for police to find out 3 weeks along the road that this person has nothing to do with the murders. He made it up, but because there were so many details of intimate pictures of the crime scenes, this person easily fooled the police, albeit for a while, that he is the perpetrator.

In meantime, the real perpetrator goes away with murder.

Do you think this is not a compromising of an investigation?

And who will cry first that police are incompetetnt?

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Wait… what??

Ok…
I DVR’d yesterday’s late night news… so I’m sitting here this morning listening and catching up on things, and next thing I know, Fox News at Night reports that the MPD has revised the statement that they have stuck with since day one… About these attacks being targeted… according to Fox (&CNN), LE has apparently walked that back and the one consistent thing that we’ve been told since the very beginning, vehemently, over and over, about how this was targeted… But that they couldn’t expound upon that because it was “integral to the investigation”… now, this may not even be the case at all? I have to say, the first thing that went through my mind were the words of Capt. Lanier during MPD’s second press briefing… since MPD has been so adamant that this was targeted, a reporter asked that if so, why not tell the public who they believe the target or targets were? I recalled Captain Lanier’s response this morning clear as day… “You’re just going to have to trust us”… I even went back and re-watched the press conference this morning just to make sure I wasn’t losing my mind… Since I can’t send you guys a link to my DVR of CNN and Fox, here’s an article I found on it from CNN: It's unclear if the 4 University of Idaho students killed were targeted in the attack, officials now say | CNN

…but beyond what was reported last night, I can’t seem to find any additional details or elaboration about this… Has anyone seen or heard any additional details you could possibly forward?

You know, I have a lot of respect for police officers. A lot. And there are so many local, state, and federal agencies who are all hands on deck with this… and I realize that we certainly do not have all of the facts, and are not at all privy to everything that they are… and I am not accusing anyone of ineptitude or anything… But honestly, hearing this was extremely disappointing… I have really been giving the benefit of the doubt about this the entire time… They’ve repeated it over and over and over, and when they said they couldn’t speak in further detail about it, I accepted that, as well, assuming that they truly were trying to protect the investigation, catch the guy, and do so in a way that would be sure to deliver those victims and their families every bit of justice that they deserve, because they were keeping everything close to the chest… And believing it was for the sake of getting it right, leaking nothing, making sure that they could nail the perpetrator to the wall in the end, I accepted it. Overall, I’m not going to sit here and accuse LE of bungling this or anything else as that would be purely speculation on my part, but I have to admit, I do feel disappointed, and I feel a lot less confident in them. Like I said, the first words that came to my mind were Captain Lanier’s… “You’re just going to have to trust us”

Here is a link to the press conference I’m referencing from Nov. 23rd if anyone wants to review that again. I’m also attaching two screenshots… one that will show a timestamp you can fast forward to, and another one that will show the quoted statement. King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

If anyone can please respond if you have additional details, I would greatly appreciate it… I cannot find anything else anywhere that delves into any further explaination…

Thanks in advance!

(November 30, 2022)

• Conflicting information has been released over the past 24 hours. The Latah County Prosecutor’s Office stated the suspect(s) specifically looked at this residence, and that one or more of the occupants were undoubtedly targeted.
  We have spoken with the Latah County Prosecutor’s Office and identified this was a miscommunication. Detectives do not currently know if the residence or any occupants were specifically targeted but continue to investigate.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

 

[shane13]

Sad to Say but targeted I believe many of us believe refers to the nature [location] and quantity of wounds inflicted on the different victims with one being very different from the other 3. MOO.

 

[CityKid]

Why are you so sure that does not compromise the investigation?

I agree! I feel like unless it's said directly by investigators, it may be held back for a reason. Invariably, no matter what the crime, when charges are announced we often learn about items/events that may seem harmless but hadn't been previously announced.

 

[Petunia83]

ADMIN NOTE:

Stop bringing rumors into this discussion, and stop stating opinion as fact.

There is no approved source to support that EC was found in the hallway.

Mods have had to remove or modsnip tons of posts based on members discussing "whispers" (i.e RUMORs) and/or members theories that contain information as fact when such "fact" is actually based on rumor.

Members who violate the above TOS are subject to a temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges.

Hey there! Thanks for the reminders. To clarify, just so I can make sure I understand, it is permissible to share opinions or observations and things like that, as long as we are clear that these are our own thoughts, theories, questions… and nothing official, correct? In other words, we can discuss possibilities, interesting things of note, etc., as long as these are not related to any prohibited topics (e.g., unrelated other dog incident) and also as long as we don’t misrepresent any of our own opinions as a matter of fact?

 

[Colorado303]

Loose lips sink ships.
My thoughts on conflicting statements. Moscow PD is probably as frustrated at the public statements made by the mayor and prosecutor as we are. Unfortunately, there is nothing they can do about it except plead for them to stop and express their annoyance behind the scenes. The mayor is their boss and the county prosecutor is the chief law enforcement officer in the county.
Normally a mayor is expected by the citizens to make some kind of statement when a major event occurs in their jurisdiction. However, this should be limited to expressing their confidence in their PD and committing to provide the resources need to assist in the investigation. Normally the district attorney or, in this case, the county prosecutor would not begin making public comments until it’s time to prepare for trial other than perhaps commenting on the fact that they are working with the pd to assess probable cause etc. They should not be throwing out the evidence to a wandering journalist.
I think Moscow PD has tried to be as transparent as possible in keeping the public informed. I think their press releases have provided much information to the public, but for some reason, the general public is not satisfied until they parade out a group of LE personnel from all the agencies along with a sprinkling of elected officials to answer questions. Press conferences keep people away from the business of investigating the case and usually devolve into misquotes and/or misinterpretation.
If you live in a small town where 4 horrific murders took place in the middle of the night by a perpetrator who slipped away into the darkness, does LE really have to tell you if it was targeted or random in order for you to take the precautions you should be taking? Back when the Boston Strangler was causing panic in the City and people were buying locks and weapons until the supply ran out, LE begged women not to open their doors to strangers. He continued to kill because folks didn’t listen or they didn’t think it could happpen to them.
Yes, people want answers, but, unfortunately, sometimes answers aren’t immediately forthcoming.

I agree w/most everything you said. But does the general public really give a hoot whether a bunch of officials make public statements? My impression has always been it’s the individual agencies and gov’t branches driving the segmented approach to ensure all are adequately recognized. With press encouraging the ensemble presentation to have as many officials as possible to hound for exclusive tidbits each news cycle.

Personally I find the press conference parade a bit redundant, a bit awkward and more than a bit unecessary. If they want to have everyone join at the podium to be introduced that’s understandable. And it often makes sense the Mayor or Governor address the community at the initial PC. But other than that I’d prefer a single, fully-briefed speech-savvy LE spokesperson deliver the investigative/public safety details.

That said, you have experience w/the process and I don’t, so perhaps that’s just me.

 

[AliVada]

Someone asked who would we like to see interviewed.

I would want to talk to all designated drivers for the greeks that night. Who else was out and who was being driven where & when? What else did they see while out and about? Any cameras in any of those cars?

Also seeing M or X could be targets, pull receipts from mad Greek to see who might have been a regular customer because of interest in the girls?

Surviving RMs obviously.

Just a start....

Kathy

 

[debirlfan]

I've read that Ethan was not a resident of the murder house, but was just "visiting" overnight. Does anyone know where he actually resided?

I think he was supposed to be living at the frat house, but I suspect he was 'unofficially' living with X, at least most of the time. As in not on the lease and not supposed to be living there, but....

 

[Celt1997]

I think he was supposed to be living at the frat house, but I suspect he was 'unofficially' living with X, at least most of the time. As in not on the lease and not supposed to be living there, but....

Which is very common in College. I had an off campus apartment, and my wife (gf at the time) "lived" in her Sorority House, but spent 90% of the nights at my place.

 

[Miss Jennifer]

Hey there! Thanks for the reminders. To clarify, just so I can make sure I understand, it is permissible to share opinions or observations and things like that, as long as we are clear that these are our own thoughts, theories, questions… and nothing official, correct? In other words, we can discuss possibilities, interesting things of note, etc., as long as these are not related to any prohibited topics (e.g., unrelated other dog incident) and also as long as we don’t misrepresent any of our own opinions as a matter of fact?

Check the rules here. IMO, thread 18 is off to a bad start. I would expect to see a clean-up soon. Let's do better.

 

[hopewell]

Why are you so sure that does not compromise the investigation?

If police didn't tell him that - and it is doubtful that they did - then how does it compromise their investigation? Because if a parent decides to hope that that's what happened, even if he was merely rationalizing from past experiences or was told that by a roommate or 'witness', then it doesn't make it fact in terms of the actual investigation.

LIkewise, that they were sleeping in the same bed does not provide the kind of 'gotcha' data that a suspect might know and no one else would, because it is a common thing for platonic 20-something females to sleep in the same bed together. Particularly ones who have been friends all of their lives. So a suspect knowing that wouldn't be that compelling in court. An average attorney would dismiss that notion fairly easily, because it is reasonable to assume that they were.

My opinion.

 

[Missyrocks5]

I think that the prosecutor is local and used to a very small stage, plus in town where there is very little crime. I think he was likely tired of people criticizing that they have no idea about anything at this point, they don’t know what they’re doing, and so he decided to be honest and say that basically that they know that one of the girls was targeted. I think that the police then did not want that out there and so they walked it back.

Everyone of course wants to know what is going on, but until they have the maniac behind bars, everyone really does need to stop talking. They should refuse all interviews and the families and the police should all stop doing any interviews. it’s just too hard to try to navigate every word that will be par stout and to basically try to answer questions without saying anything. They should just release a statement and say until there is an arrest, it is better that they not do any interviews. And then they can do press releases like they have been doing to say who they ruled out or what they do not believe is related “at this time“.

I tried to edit it. The auto correct. I was saying parse every word. Not par stout lol

 

[shane13]

Yes they do. Prosecutors are currently seeking it for Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow.

Thank you. What does verified insider refer to?
LE? Prosecution? ME?

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Do you not see just above what Mod SillyBilly wrote re Ethan?

Coroner is quoted on saying it is incorrect that all were found in their beds, per CBS news. In other words, the coroner said they were not sll found in their beds. CBS news.
thanks for the heads up, I deleted my post saying the above That no, not all were found in their beds.
my theory, not fact, is it could be Ethan defending the girls and found in the hallway after trying to fight intruder.

 

[SkylarSid]

Hmm. Food for thought. 4 stealthy, successful murders single-handedly with only a knife indicates some expertise.

And maybe a taser to stun them.

 

[Petunia83]

catch-up to the latest statement on whether the crime was 'targeted'

'detectives do not currently know if the residents or any of the occupants were specifically targeted but continue to investigate'
and Bill Thompson apologises

Ashleigh - ' This is absurd'

See, the thing is, the statement put out by MPD says that this is an “internal miscommunication” between themselves and the prosecutor… but within the same breath of that statement, they go on to say that they can’t say one way or the other if it was targeted or not… So there’s nothing “internal” about the miscommunication… MPD has been repeating the exact same words, with steadfast conviction, since day one… We have every reason to believe that this was targeted, the evidence leads us to believe that this was targeted… and on and on and on… they believed this with such confidence, to point that in the early hours and days of the investigation, they told the community there was no threat to anyone… because it was targeted! But now there is an about face and they’re no longer certain (essentially)? I’m sorry, I really really want to give the benefit of the doubt, but after watching this and seeing Ashleigh become so unreservedly (for her personality, at least) exasperated… I have to agree… this is absurd.

 

[tara83]

I agree! I feel like unless it's said directly by investigators, it may be held back for a reason. Invariably, no matter what the crime, when charges are announced we often learn about items/events that may seem harmless but hadn't been previously announced.

Seems to me LE going back and fourth on whether this was targeted or not and changing their mind every 5 minutes compromises the investigation more than K's poor dad.

 

[deadfoot13]

Thank you. What does verified insider refer to?
LE? Prosecution? ME?

Verified insiders are individuals who are close to a specific case and privy to information that may not be available elsewhere. They verify their status through a process and it allows them to post information on that specific case without having to provide links to validate the info.

Members who are professionals such as medical personnel, law enforcement, attorneys, etc. or who have education or verifiable expertise in different fields can also be verified, which allows them to post information relevant to that without having to provide links.

The process is here if it is relevant to you: Verified Professional and Insider Members

 

[Sunny Texas]

My opinions regarding K's dad saying at the vigil that she and M were killed together in the same bed. I felt early on this might be the case due to several factors: lifelong friendship/sisterhood, both intoxicated and calling J at same time, wanting to catch up since K was only there a couple of days and would soon be moving far away, K's furniture might already have been moved.

Here are the possibilities, the way I see it:
1) K's dad knew from phone data or from knowledge furniture was already moved that K&M were sharing a bed.
2) K's dad assumed from his knowledge of the girls that they would be doing so.
3) K's dad knew from LE that they slept and were killed in same bed, wasn't supposed to release that information, but did so deliberately anyway. (His remarks were written out, and his daughter was pointing at those for him to be sure to say certain things.)
4)K's dad knew from LE they were together and was asked by LE to release the information.
5)K's dad knew from LE they were NOT together and was asked by LE to release DISinformation.
6)K's dad knew from source other than LE that they were together and chose to release it (against advisement from LE)
7)K's dad did not know they were together, but believes him saying so might somehow help the investigation.

Whatever the scenario, I do believe that releasing that information was very deliberate on his part and that it was one of the things he and family had written into his scripted remarks.