ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

[otto]

I think there are people who think this may have been a more random attack of opportunity, or that maybe x and e were the targets? IDK. IMO the only way it would be relevant is if the same person had been there many times and that is how he became familiar with the women in it and started to fantasize.

We know that there is a hill at the back of the property where anyone could easily see into the kitchen and third floor bedrooms. It's not necessary for anyone to be in the house to see who is there or what they are doing.

At this time, we don't know why they were murdered, or who is responsible. We know the murders were targeted, but we don't know whether that means the residence, or an individual at the residence.

There no way to link any party at the house to the murders.

 

[10ofRods]

agreed.
big differences. I just think the somehow there will be lawsuits, and even if UofI is only brought in on the periphery, I think they'll find a way. jmo based on basic guess/odds in my favor.

Oh yes. After reading here and on other online forums, I think the time is ripe for such lawsuits in Idaho.

If the parents want help in constructing that lawsuit, I have some bullet points. One could claim that the university failed to adequately warn students about the dangers of assault in any college town. How far a uni wants to go with this campaign is up to them, but the fact that the university is now urging buddy system or whatever could be construed as information that should have been given before the crime, to ever student and repeated often.

Discussions about door locks, in-house cameras, security systems should have been routine and all of those things recommended, etc.

That lawsuit would get some traction, don't know how it would turn out. And you're right, even if UofI is like the 10th named defendant in the case, they're still be in the case.

I worked with a family on the East Coast (who was thinking of suing the National Park Service) to get a different kind of outcome (they didn't really want to sue, but their son had died due to lack of water, etc, etc). I pointed out to them that the park service did NOT at that time have consistent signage on all relevant trails about availability of water OR how much to take. So, the family did not sue, but the lawyers worked out an agreement that the park would have signage. Snd since then, the sign boards are a bit more numerous, the signs themselves are in larger print - it used to be really small print, and there's a picture of how many liter bottles recommended for a day trip on that particular trail.

The family felt much better with this outcome, they didn't want money, they thought their son would like this outcome. They also realized that he had overestimated his knowledge about the Canyon to some extent, so they were reasonable, amazing people.

 

[IceCreamSundae]

Would you have a link and time for the special?

NewsNation

www.newsnationnow.com

9pm EST

 

[stayclassy]

Could be weeks old though, bag was in good condition so they kept it?

No, given the friends' mutual video Xana was ruthless about chores... This has to be relevant especially considering the missing location of the two (her and E) as far as the timeline that was released.

 

[Snoop Sister]

When I read that the “points of damage” didn’t match, it occurred to me that perhaps one of the young ladies — M or K — also suffered abdominal sharp force trauma. The last thread moved fast, so apologies if this has already been discussed, but has pregnancy as a motive been considered? Surely a pregnancy test would be a part of any autopsy for a woman of child-bearing age who is a victim of homicide, right? Wounds like that might also explain the “targeted” controversy. And the need to eliminate potential confidantes. Or perhaps M was the target and K was just a surprise visitor he wasn’t expecting to find in her room that night that he dealt with in real time. And it escalated from there. Admittedly, it’s probably an unlikely scenario. But I think it’s a reasonable conjecture given what (little) we know so far. Perhaps LE has a totally different kind of DNA profile that’s not hitting in the databases. MOO.

A pregnancy would definitely show up in an autopsy.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Oh yes. After reading here and on other online forums, I think the time is ripe for such lawsuits in Idaho.

If the parents want help in constructing that lawsuit, I have some bullet points. One could claim that the university failed to adequately warn students about the dangers of assault in any college town. How far a uni wants to go with this campaign is up to them, but the fact that the university is now urging buddy system or whatever could be construed as information that should have been given before the crime, to ever student and repeated often.

Discussions about door locks, in-house cameras, security systems should have been routine and all of those things recommended, etc.

That lawsuit would get some traction, don't know how it would turn out. And you're right, even if UofI is like the 10th named defendant in the case, they're still be in the case.

I worked with a family on the East Coast (who was thinking of suing the National Park Service) to get a different kind of outcome (they didn't really want to sue, but their son had died due to lack of water, etc, etc). I pointed out to them that the park service did NOT at that time have consistent signage on all relevant trails about availability of water OR how much to take. So, the family did not sue, but the lawyers worked out an agreement that the park would have signage. Snd since then, the sign boards are a bit more numerous, the signs themselves are in larger print - it used to be really small print, and there's a picture of how many liter bottles recommended for a day trip on that particular trail.

The family felt much better with this outcome, they didn't want money, they thought their son would like this outcome. They also realized that he had overestimated his knowledge about the Canyon to some extent, so they were reasonable, amazing people.

I believe the proper response here is, 'Nailed it!'

 

[girlrx]

On the food truck video with the girls and Hoodie Guy: He was referred to as such in the 12/2 press release:

"At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the following are involved in this crime:
• Two surviving roommates,
• Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video,
• Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th ,
• The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of November 13th, or
• Any individual at the residence when 911 was called."

Of course, he might be the main suspect, especially given that the girls appear to ditch him when their food is done and get a ride from "Sober Sister."

Question: What do we know about his alibi, if anything? (There are claims online, but perhaps unfounded)
Anyone know anything about this?

Good question, I don't think anyone knows. There are plenty of rumors. We can not discuss it as he is not a poi and has been cleared for the time being.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

We know that there is a hill at the back of the property where anyone could easily see into the kitchen and third floor bedrooms. It's not necessary for anyone to be in the house to see who is there or what they are doing.

At this time, we don't know why they were murdered, or who is responsible. We know the murders were targeted, but we don't know whether that means the residence, or an individual at the residence.

There no way to link any party at the house to the murders.

and that is why I said IMO. Just my theory. Never said that there was any way to link any party.

 

[10ofRods]

We know that there is a hill at the back of the property where anyone could easily see into the kitchen and third floor bedrooms. It's not necessary for anyone to be in the house to see who is there or what they are doing.

At this time, we don't know why they were murdered, or who is responsible. We know the murders were targeted, but we don't know whether that means the residence, or an individual at the residence.

There no way to link any party at the house to the murders.

Well, yes, of course there's a way to link it, by using examples where such a thing has occurred. If I had to bet, I'd bet that this particular perp, living in a town of about 25,000 people, had indeed been to the house before, especially after all that's been posted here regarding its status as a party house. IOW, a kind of statistical model.

There's no way to link the killings to voyeurism from the hill, either.

But both of these pieces of information are relevant. Potentially lots of relative strangers in the house, good views into the house from various angles, large same-age population living nearby, statistics about onset of some mental illnesses, etc. etc. It's all relevant and I do hope experts/police are weighing and evaluating these things and much more.

Unfortunately, the key is likely to be either "someone notices someone acting differently after the crime" and speaks up OR...

DNA. And then we'll know if that person had been there before or was known to the university student population or is part of it. Or is from out of town.

At this point, we don't even know if this is a spree type killer (probably not, I'd say) or which sex (I'm betting on male - but there's absolutely no reason the perp could not be female, IMO).

 

[WildWest]

IMO
The different means of attack could be because one girl was attacked in her sleep and the other woke up and defended herself thus distracting the killer from inflicting more stab wounds, but it could mean one was targeted too.

I wonder about that too, for all I know he knocked one out with a punch while going after the second one then turned his blade on the unconscious one.

 

[British Bulldog]

Idaho student murders: Rumours, 'clues' and online detectives

“Despite seeking tips from the public, authorities in Idaho are warning rumours and speculation being spread by a growing army of amateur web sleuths is hindering efforts to solve the grisly slaying of four college students.”

“..these efforts, experts say, can drain investigative resources, complicate future jury selection, encourage false confessions and bring unwanted - perhaps even dangerous - public scrutiny on innocent residents.”

Could this also be interpreted as the Moscow LE, Idaho State and FBI have not got a clue !!

 

[dubster]

MSN

 

[PolarButterflie]

<deleted by poster - answered many times previously>

 

[Sachi]

We know that there is a hill at the back of the property where anyone could easily see into the kitchen and third floor bedrooms. It's not necessary for anyone to be in the house to see who is there or what they are doing.

At this time, we don't know why they were murdered, or who is responsible. We know the murders were targeted, but we don't know whether that means the residence, or an individual at the residence.

There no way to link any party at the house to the murders.

Thanks Otto, appreciate this.

 

[Snoop Sister]

NewsNation

www.newsnationnow.com

9pm EST

Thank you!

 

[10ofRods]

True but they also make money from merchandise licensing, athletic tickets etc. I know the University of Texas system, while being a state institution, makes a huge amount of money from athletics and merchandise, alumni contributions and endowments. I would hate to think how much my taxes would be if that system was "mostly funded by taxpayers".

Well, I'm only familiar with a few states (done accreditation visits in the Western regions of the US), but typically the funds raised from merch go for things like upgrading sports facilities (student athletics are, by federal requirements not to be funded by tuition or by state endowment - only physical education; so team expenses often come partly from such things).

We use our merch sales where I teach to hire tutors and give scholarships - but not to pay basic University expenses or to hire police.

And I'm guessing those sales may dip, you're right. But maybe not. People can be so strange. Maybe people will want to show support for students (and the students for each other) by buying more. Who can say?

Does U of I have a large set of alumni contributors and an endowment? That was one of my original questions/curiosities.

At any rate, someone suggested U of I hire more police and my point is "easier said than done," these days. Perhaps this crime will help change that.

 

[WildWest]

If I call in an order to-go and go pick it up in the drive-thru, my name is on the order and I give my name when I pick it up..same with my pick up grocery order, my name is the order identifier. If I have an order delivered, my address and name is on the box or bag and I usually have to sign for it. With just a name and no address, how would someone know where to deliver it unless there was more than one bag.

Appreciate you sharing that, I had no clue, I've never done either and would never have known.

 

[branmuffin]

One reason that I think keeps being mentioned here on the threads against putting up posters with REWARD is that the possibility of getting money for a tip will inspire people who have nothing to do with the crime to contact LE with made-up information. This just makes more work for LE and doesn't lead to anything useful. But idk why no posters at all.

While I understand that the university might not like posters around town which advertise a killer is on the loose, I think they're living in denial if they think posters in town would compromise enrolment when numerous countries, states, tv stations, newspapers and blogs have been talking about this murder for three weeks.

I wonder whether there is some municipal bylaw not allowing posters. In a university town where they have entertainment venues, bars advertising entertainment, ads for looking for rentals, cars for sale, etc etc maybe they just cracked down on all posters to stop the place looking run down and messy.

Living in Toronto I used to see thousands upon thousands of adverts for concerts months old peeling off telephone poles, lamp posts, hording around building sites and any vertical surface someone could find to glue a poster to. Now there is a bylaw regarding posters and it's actively enforced. There are kiosks and message boards approved for posters to limit the untidiness.

 

[stayclassy]

I get the drunk calling of ex, but why stop at 2:52AM, 8 minutes prior to the start of 3AM kill hour? Why then send text to ex about co-owning dog together. IMO, text would only be if there was some sort of rejection response by ex to the calls. What time did ex call M or K back on 11/13? I think K &M called ex cause they wanted to sleep with Murphy since K was moving soon to Texas.

I get the drunk calling of ex, but why stop at 2:52AM, 8 minutes prior to the start of 3AM kill hour?


Maybe because an unnamed suspect could have been seen in the area or had enough time within that window to arrive on scene?

 

[acutename]

I transcribed that exact part of the interview because we were discussing it last night. Here’s what SG said about the “means” of Kaylee and Maddie’s being different (SG sort of goes off topic talking about his perceived lack of LE communication):

LJ tees up the next question (*This is the transcribed direct exchange):

LJ: “I had the opportunity to speak with some of my sources and I have been told there are differences in the way that the victims were killed. Some were more severe than the ‘other’. And this week, we heard ‘the target attack’ walk-back, and reverse it back to being a target attack — what can you tell us about the targeted attack”?

Mom of Kaylee: “Umm, they have told us it that was targeted, and but they told us they can’t tell who. We asked specifically. And they said, ‘We’ll try to get that information to you’ and they got back to us a day or so later and said, ‘We’re sorry, we can’t give you that information’ but, then a day later, we saw on the news that it was not targeted, or they think the whole house was targeted.”

SG: “I’ll cut to the chase, their means of death don’t match.”

LJ: “Maddie’s and Kaylee’s… Cause of death, it does not match based on the autopsy report?”

SG: “They don’t match.”

LJ: “It would indicate one of them may have been targeted?”

SG: “He doesn’t have to go up the steps! Let’s stop playing games! Guys! I need somebody to step up and be an alpha, be somebody to be a leader! Don’t make me do it! I don’t wanna do it! He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad. Their, their points of damage don’t match. I’m just gonna say it... Wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that. I payed for that funeral. I paid for that. It’s my right! You ain’t takin’ that from me!

Mom: “Calm down.”

SG: “If you don’t wanna say nothing, that’s your bed... But don’t say I’m leakin’ anything, I paid that bill! I sent my daughter to college to get an education, she came back in a box, and I can speak on that.”

Here’s the entire interview for complete context and I think it’s important to watch because he basically says the University is involved and is trying to suppress the media coverage and maybe that’s why there is mixed messaging because the University still wants prospective students to enroll and that would be hard if LE was blasting out there is a maniac on the the loose. (I paraphrased that because that’s what I understood also from the interview.)

Kaylee Goncalves' parents hunt for answers 3 weeks after college student slayings | Fox News Video

Steve and Kristi Goncalves speak with Fox News' Lawrence Jones to discuss the ongoing investigation from Moscow, Idaho.

www.foxnews.com

I’m interested in your thoughts.

what does he mean by "They're mad." Who is they? This sounds a little like word salad... Any chance K&M were on the 2nd floor too? (No one has said that from the 3rd floor , you cannot hear noise on the second floor. BTW.)