ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

I agree with whoever posted in the last thread that this sort of killing/escape would seemingly take some planning, including the fact that the killer didn't leave an easy trail. In my mind that points to planning, and an impulsive/drunk/stoned college kid who is angry after a party doesn't seem to fit the bill in my mind. Unless it was preplanned in the sense that the killer WAS out/with people that night but stayed relatively sober and was waiting for the victims to all return home and had premeditated the plan perhaps days before (or longer).

<respectfully snipped for focus>

I also find it interesting that LE seems to want to retrace all the victims' steps that evening, is asking for photos, etc., which to me seems like they don't think it's a random serial killer that wasn't at least around the events of the evening. Just so confusing. And of course heartbreaking.

JMO.

Interesting speculation, @nightowl2728.

I lean toward this being something that festered over time with the killer and was planned vs a crime of opportunity.

Either way: Something compelled the killer to act that night.

They now have evidence that should point toward the crime scene flow, which will help them determine motive(s) and means (how the crime was committed).

Establishing timelines for that evening helps investigators determine why the killer timed the attacks when they occurred.

Establishing victim timelines also helps investigators establish suspect timelines.

Who had the opportunity to commit this crime?

JMO.

 

[LizWords]

My concern, based on my own experience of a compromised investigation, is that oversharing classified information and trying to inject himself into an investigation, could actually hinder the investigation or deny other families the justice they so badly need.

If he gets a PI and/or advocate with skill, knowledge, and integrity, I think it will help keep Steve from sharing info LE doesn't want released and desperately bringing up random rumors started on facebook. A good PI is not going to want him on TV every other day talking about info LE doesn't want publicized, nor would they want him publicly grasping at straws like random rumors started on facebook.

I guess we'll see how this pans out soon.

 

[Deleted member 110058]

This case just gets stranger and stranger with things. From the LE communication being all over the place, to the removal of the Zillow listings, and now Google maps doing the "blur" thing on a Street View picture from 2021? I can't recall such an odd investigation.

Very common. All of those items can be removed by the owners' request. Generally not a sign of movement in the case.
It's usually just for privacy.

 

[stg]

We have a general timeline that the 4 victims arrived home sometime between 1:45-2:00. Do we have any information/timelines on what the 4 victims were doing earlier in the evening. Was there any pre-partying going on at the house (multiple people coming in and out) before they all went their separate ways for the night (Corner Club/Frat Party)? Also, we know when the 2 surviving roommates got home (around 1) but when did they leave (earlier in the day/the day before, etc.)

I just read this ABC News article claiming Xana and Ethan were at a party at Ethan's frat house from 9 p.m.-1:45 a.m. that night: Idaho police zero in on movements of 2 victims who went to frat house before killings

 

[ventuc]

The dog - Doodles are notoriously timid and anxiety ridden, and this dog has been confirmed by victims families that the dog was very timid and likely hiding. I'm sure the moment he heard any commotion he ran off to hide. JMO

But for 9 hours? It seems to me he was locked in a kennel or at least in a room, otherwise at some point before noon the next day, I would think he would have gone checking things out, and gotten blood on his paws/fur. MOO

 

[Bliss_Perth]

It looks like there was a verbal altercation between MM and JV while waiting for food at Grub Truckers. Based on JV’s later statements to the press about “the girl in pink” bumping into him at the Corner Bar, maybe this altercation was carried over from the bar to the food truck. Notice the weird “v-v-v” recording blocking out the audio from about 3:49:04 to about 3:49:54. I wonder if this is due to the investigation and LE not wanting the public to know what was said during this time? Also, at about 3:50:50, MM can be seen gesturing toward JV and can be heard saying “f.. you.”

Verbal altercations happen all the time, but in this instance a young woman involved in an altercation was brutally murdered in the hours following. That makes this an event that absolutely needs to be investigated. Bottom line, if this video was altered by police to obscure the conversation, that indicates that LE is considering the possibility, and that’s all we can hope for.

Twitch

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the v-v-v is just a channel user tipping that channel and in return they can add narrated text.

 

[kaley]

Regarding the X and E timeline, I think it is possible they simply went up to a room in the frat house and fell asleep? I have personally done this. Especially after drinking/ partying. Maybe they woke up and walked home and no one saw them leave.

 

[nightowl2728]

Le retracing could also be interpreted as HAVING evidence pointing to some local?

I agree but also not sure what retracing the frat events of the night would have to do with that though, if it was a local. The local could simply be watching the house and waiting for them to return. He wouldn't have to be following them around all night in order to make sure they were home. Also I think LE has asked for photos and info about the events leading up to the murders, including photos and interactions. I think if it was a premeditated "random" local, what happened at a frat house wouldn't really be significant. JMO

Agreed also with whoever posted that LE is looking for info leading up to the crime to confirm (or deny) alibis given.

 

[LizWords]

But for 9 hours? It seems to me he was locked in a kennel or at least in a room, otherwise at some point before noon the next day, I would think he would have gone checking things out, and gotten blood on his paws/fur. MOO

Since K was in M's room, texting, and then going to sleep together at 3AM, the dog may have just stayed in K's room for a variety of reasons. Maybe he ran away during the attack, or maybe he wasn't in M's room. I'm sure LE inspected him for blood, etc.

 

[ventuc]

Regarding the 3:01 police arrival close by for alcohol …IMO that is not what scared off the perp from going into the bottom floor rooms. That would have been only about 9 minutes after the girls’ last calls to J, so that would mean they were likely awake still at 3:01. The timeline seems off for that to be likely, unless perp made the calls, which seems doubtful —MOO

 

[nightowl2728]

This confuses me. How can a silent majority be ignored? Or really even considered, frankly, since we have NO idea how the other families feel. They could feel the complete opposite. They could feel exactly the same. We only know that KG's family has been outspoken about their feelings/thoughts.

I think in SG's most recent interview he is asked if he's spoken with the other families and he says yes, and (in essence) they are in support of him doing what he feels is right (in his opinion). Don't quote me exactly but that was the gist of it.

 

[SuziQ]

seems a bit early to have a PI and I've never trusted PIs they're a bit of gritters scammers get paid a lot to do nothing really I mean we're not looking for an old high school friend we're in the middle of a homicide of four people a PI can't do anything but talk to people that im sure FBI state police have already done and are still doing forensics takes time its a party house so many fingerprints and DNA it's already going to take a bit to sort out that mess. The dad shouldn't be talking about details so much don't think it's helping them might trigger the suspect to cover his track's and cause the internet rumor mill to intensify ruining innocent peoples lives and have his picture and address put out.

Dylan Rounds is a recent case where a PI behaved badly. He created many problems, the family didn't need to deal with, on top of everything else. They ended up having to issue a cease and desist. Even after he was fired, it was hard to make him stop. Imo.

 

[thatssoamy]

It has been stated by the MPD that the dog was found closed up in a second bedroom, which to me indicates he was put there by either victims or perp. Unless the dog was able to hide himself in the room and close the door behind him.

LE didn't say closed up.

During the search of the home, a dog was found in a room where the crimes had not been committed. Officers did not find any evidence on the dog and there was no indication the animal had entered the crime scene. The dog was taken to Animal Services and released to a responsible person.

 

[AuntTricia]

I agree with whoever posted in the last thread that this sort of killing/escape would seemingly take some planning, including the fact that the killer didn't leave an easy trail. In my mind that points to planning, and an impulsive/drunk/stoned college kid who is angry after a party doesn't seem to fit the bill in my mind. Unless it was preplanned in the sense that the killer WAS out/with people that night but stayed relatively sober and was waiting for the victims to all return home and had premeditated the plan perhaps days before (or longer). Maybe someone on the outskirts of their circles like a young alum who was a senior when they were freshmen, but hasn't really moved on past college and has rage... or someone with a military background who was older when they went to college, etc. That said, I do feel like given the circumstances the attack was somewhat personal, but maybe not personal to the extent that it was someone they actually had regular contact with. Maybe it was personal to the killer because they felt rejected/affronted, etc. (not justifiably, I should add).
I also find it interesting that LE seems to want to retrace all the victims' steps that evening, is asking for photos, etc., which to me seems like they don't think it's a random serial killer that wasn't at least around the events of the evening. Just so confusing. And of course heartbreaking.

I agree with this. I also believe that the perp planned this well ahead of time. Put a lot of thought into each piece of "gear" that he would need to commit the crime and prevent leaving evidence. I've heard nothing of any blood found outside the house. That would take planning to accomplish. This was not a spur of the moment thing committed by a slightly butt hurt young man. He would have had a "kit" just as a doomsday prepper has a kit. All the tools that he believes he needs, and apparently he was well prepared.

 

[Skigirl]

It has been stated by the MPD that the dog was found closed up in a second bedroom, which to me indicates he was put there by either victims or perp. Unless the dog was able to hide himself in the room and close the door behind him.

I wonder if M&K left the bedroom door ajar so that the dog could move around at night. Our golden retriever, from puppyhood on, has always liked to camp out at the top of the stairs for part of the night. He adopted the habit early and gets very restless when we close him into the bedroom, and he finally wore us down (that is, until I started reading this case; now, against his wishes, he's deadbolted in with us at night). Perhaps the doodle was also allowed to roam at night and when he greeted the killer, the killer shut him in the empty bedroom before moving on. JMO.

 

[General wooster]

My opinion only:
I am in agreement with those who believe that the murderer was/is local. Likely someone living close by. Someone who knew their way around the back ways and knew that at that hour on those pathways that he/she would not likely encounter anyone in the short distance that would be traveled. Someone who has demonstrated anger, violated personal friends, relatives, etc. Perhaps a neighbor who had grown infuriated with the noise, partying at all hours, jealous of their fun, their youth. So, the “residence” issue comes into play. Perceived exclusion. No doubt LE has some individual in mind. Don’t rule out a female.

I am not convinced the person had previous homicidal experience. But, no doubt has demonstrated strong ego ~~~ like, “I’m smarter than everyone, I’ll never get caught” attitude. No stealth murderer ever believes that they will get caught. The criminal mind is largely impervious to self-doubt. Thus, likely some criminal background.

I have confidence in LE. It’s just a matter of time.

 

[ventuc]

I don’t know if someone has brought up this point yet, but regarding K being targeted— SG implies that the perp going upstairs indicates one of the girls upstairs was targeted, but couldn’t it just be that the perp wanted them all dead? Ie, the household was targeted? In that case, he would also have to go upstairs, in order to get to them all. He might have just been scared away or otherwise deterred from going down to the first floor. Can anyone explain why SG thinks the perp going upstairs does mean K or M were targeted? Maybe just in combination with the difference in brutality?

 

[FeistyCat1976]

LE didn't say closed up.

During the search of the home, a dog was found in a room where the crimes had not been committed. Officers did not find any evidence on the dog and there was no indication the animal had entered the crime scene. The dog was taken to Animal Services and released to a responsible person.

You're right! My apologies...I think my brain just pictured him closed up. Appreciate the redirect to the facts!

 

[LizWords]

Dylan Rounds is a recent case where a PI behaved badly. He created many problems, the family didn't need to deal with, on top of everything else. They ended up having to issue a cease and desist. Even after he was fired, it was hard to make him stop. Imo.

I know, it's a concern. I just really hope he gets one with integrity.

 

[nightowl2728]

I agree with all of this. I truly believe he, like any caring parent, would do anything in their power to get justice for his daughter. My only question is, why is he not doing the one thing that the people in charge of actually accomplishing what he so desperately wants are asking him to do?

I don't disagree with your thought process here, but I think the most simple answer is - grief. Unless someone has ever lost a close family member, to a horrible disgusting crime (which I hope they have not), then you cannot understand what grief does to someone. Just saying. We may not agree with his approach, or think it's logical, but grief is not logical. JMO

Also would add that the other victims' families HAVE been in contact with him, according to his recent interview, and said that they were in support of him. I'm sure if they had concerns about him compromising the investigation, they could at least share that with him and/or with LE to stop it. I don't disagree that he could be preventing actual justice. I just think that people on here need to understand the depth of his grief and that while we might not think what he's doing makes sense, we can't really put ourselves in his shoes and act like we know better, when we don't.