ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[L.laricina]

Oh yes, of course. I just wanted to be sure as I believe you mentioned that LE had said they were looking for that specific brand.

I believe that LE is looking for this knife and that the shop owners let this cat out of the bag. LE quickly walked it back a bit by saying, explicitly, that they were looking for a fixed blade knife.

In my mind, given the brazen nature of the crime, the stealth, and the seeming lack of any identifiable evidence left by the killer, this was someone who has killed before with this, or a similar type of weapon. Either sanctioned or not.

Further, it would not surprise me if the killer, in this case, is a veteran with advanced training, beyond that of the average GI. Sadly, many veterans suffer from complex PTSD which can sometimes very closely mimic symtoms of Cluster B disorders such as sociopathy.

 

[10ofRods]

Wetsuit won't keep the blood away from you, though.

Nothing will. And it would be a weird thing to be caught running around in, on such a night.

But it would disguise the blood spatter for longer than certain other styles of clothing (and contain the shedding of DNA - which is far more important to this perp, IMO).

Okay, so here's a question I have. Early on, there are newspaper reporters with pictures of LE in the backyard of the house. For quite a while.

Could fastidious killer with wetsuit have paused to rinse a bit of blood off? Had he stored clothes back there at one point? (more likely). When I saw how much time they spent in the back yard, I wondered if he were a smoker or had left other outdoor evidence of his long wait for the 4 to settle in.

If main goal is to contain DNA, choose wetsuit (even if it means

 

[hopewell]

I don't think you fully understand what the BAU actually does. Standard belief seems to be the television version of a "profiler," and their work focused on not only murders but serial murders. That couldn't be further from the truth. 99% of their job is lending a hand to time-sensitive investigations. Performing research, cross-referencing, data analysis, inductive/deductive reasoning, statistical probabilities, etcetera, in any number of violent crimes.

The levels of audacity, calculation, depravity, psychopathology, and utter strength it takes to systematically reap four people in their beds on a Saturday night at 3AM with nary a peep and without enough evidence to be caught virtually immediately afterwards, are a bit greater in both scope and magnitude than some impulsive revenge kill, aggrieved incel, 90lb Instagram 'hunter' posing with Daddy's kills, or ex-lover's quibble. Every reputable profiler I have seen regarding this case agrees the MO fits a likely serial killer.

My opinion.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

I just wanted to take a moment and remind everyone that the occupant(s) of the white car may only be witnesses and not the killer. If they have no info to add, the white car may lead to a dead end. Imo.

Since they put that out, I've thought they were looking at it for witnesses, not the actual killer, as that kind of bolo (suspecting it's the killer) would surely send the killer into hiding. MOO

I don't think they are done following up on the tips tho. It seemed like the day before the BOLO they had 1000 tips, then a day or 2 after they had 5000 tips. Again, this is just my opinion.

 

[cottonweaver]

No relation. I just found it odd when looking at possible entrances and exists from the addresses detectives were looking for footage from that if you took the Shetland path completely N, without veering for the road (think on foot, post Ridge/Walenta) and in a hypothetical sense, it runs through 1122, the steps in front of 1122, and on to Taylor, near the fire hydrant.

I just had a quick look on street view and can certainly see the attractions for a perp.
Do you know if there any fences which stop a perp leaving the murder house via that tree-line, up the incline and then on foot to Walenta and then down the path which you have identified? ( I couldn't tell on street view)

 

[lucidium]

The surviving students did not notice that no one was around. You can smell blood. It has a heavy, cloying rust iron odor. The students bled out, there would have been blood everywhere. The house would br filled with the stench.So they call friends over? Bizzare.

No, not bizarre. What's odd is assuming the facts as stated by MPD are incorrect. Why not think "oh, maybe the smell of blood isn't as strong as I thought / have been led to believe"? Or "This doesn't make sense to me - I must be missing some key detail"?
I prefer to try and imagine possible scenarios that fit the known facts. What that tells me is: when the roommates summoned friends to the house, they did not know of the horrific crime that had occurred. Why is that not the obvious conclusion?

 

[accordn2me]

Commercial rental properties have codes too

Another common mass produced object like the car in the murder. The knife

Building codes vs. what is permitted behavior by the fire marshal in a business …. I don’t think will apply to your room where you’re sleeping. You can bring a door wedge with you if you rent a room in a hotel.

This house where the students were murdered appeared to be a rent a room type of deal; with each student’s room probably having a heavier, more secure lock than a normal contractor-grade residential bedroom door in a private residence. If there were a lot of people coming and going throughout the common areas of the house, a door wedge could definitely increase your chances of not being a victim of an attacker that is trying to jump you in your sleep. And perhaps, the survivors had door wedges…..

 

[cottonweaver]

deleted by me

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

In the timeframe between 2:30-3:00 AM KG attempted to call J six times. Then M called him three times, and just minutes before 3:00 K tried one final time. This info was released by KG's family; they were able to determine activity on K's phone from checking online for their usage. But how did they know what happened with M's phone? Do we know?

Presumably from J’s cooperation? JMHO

 

[livewiiiiire]

This brings me back to the dog. I have mini labradoodles and they’re going to be with whoever gets home first and they’re gonna be close. Super emotional and super needy. And like to be in bed with whoever that time of night. I think the surviving roommates got home and took Murphy out and he slept with one of them. It’s nothing for a roommate to text KG and say “Hey, I’ve taken Murphy out and he’s sleeping with me until you get home“ or “until tomorrow”

This is what I have always thought about the dog - it didn't necessarily have to be with Kaylee because it was young, and so familiar with the roommates, it just wanted to be in a bed with someone at night. And I'm sure the roommates didn't mind having the dog around, or think twice if it slept in their room, especially if they thought there was a party going on (if that is still the narrative? I remember this being said at the beginning but can't find a specific source, it may just be speculation). MOO.

 

[AuntTricia]

I think the same pathological over confidence possessed by this murderer that allowed him to walk into a home occupied by 6 human beings and a dog and kill 4 of them with a knife will also be his downfall. That type of trait would be difficult to suppress. He almost certainly believes he will never get caught and probably still has his precious knife and possibly the car LE is seeking if it was in fact his.

I’ll bet someone he knows has suspicions about him and just needs to pull the trigger on dropping a tip. Mom? Boss? Co-worker? Roommate? I hate to think of him having a wife or girlfriend, but maybe he does.

MOO

Any chance he has kids? Ugh. The thought of it. Try as I may, and I have posted some spec about who I think could do such a thing and how it happened - I just can't wrap my mind around the evilness.

 

[lucidium]

I would hope the LE knows exactly who owns it so unless the plates were fake, or no plates or fake paper plates...or the person who owns it is long gone with the car or dumped or reported it stolen.
I guess it's driving me crazy...I hope they catch this person ASAP!

MPD:

Detectives remain interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, with an unknown license plate.

 

[Charlot123]

Yep that makes a lot of sense. But, imo, this car may be the only piece of evidence they have (until forensics/DNA all come back) and they are hoping said driver/occupant will come forward. They don't even have a plate, probably don't know how many occupants etc....But I see what you're saying. If the poi had help (driver) this appeal would put pressure on the poi and driver/accomplice.

I wonder if he repainted it. If white H-E is something everyone is looking for, then paint it green and drive for two weeks before it gets announced that the car is being searched for by LE.

I wonder if someone in/around Moscow bought a car paint shortly before the murders?

 

[L.laricina]

No, not bizarre. What's odd is assuming the facts as stated by MPD are incorrect. Why not think "oh, maybe the smell of blood isn't as strong as I thought / have been led to believe"? Or "This doesn't make sense to me - I must be missing some key detail"?
I prefer to try and imagine possible scenarios that fit the known facts. What that tells me is: when the roommates summoned friends to the house, they did not know of the horrific crime that had occurred. Why is that not the obvious conclusion?

Another potentially obvious conclusion is that these roommates, all of them, were kids at college who were far from their known and lifelong support systems. When I was in college, at that age, my peer group became a substitute for my familial support system. This was true, I think, for my whole peer group and, possibly, for these young people. Considering the situation in this light, I don't really have a problem with the minor inconsistencies in the reporting of that morning or the conduct of the surviving victims.

 

[CeeMDubs]

Did the killer have any blood on them when entering the vehicle?

If someone borrowed your white Elantra, you might get suspicious. The whole country is on the look out for a white Elantra

This. The owner may have had no knowledge of their car being used, and would never imagine their relative/friend/acquaintance would do such a crime.

They may have even contacted investigators immediately when the notice about the car went out, and ruled out (especially if they were elderly, had an alibi, etc.)

In regards to the blood, I don’t think this killer was dripping with blood and splashing it around everywhere. They were possibly hit with blood spatter but it would have been absorbed in their clothing. Blood dries relatively quickly and I could see there being no visible trace left behind on car seats, etc.

 

[annpats]

. I'd imagine the streets in a college town have way better road cameras and AI NPR that we have in the UK, JMO MOO

No, I wouldn't have thought so.

British ANPR readers and cameras are the best in the business as they are about chasing revenue and issuing fines from people with no insurance, tax or MOT test certificate.

Road cameras in college towns in the USA will mainly be for general surveillance.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Building codes vs. what is permitted behavior by the fire marshal in a business …. I don’t think will apply to your room where you’re sleeping. You can bring a door wedge with you if you rent a room in a hotel.

This house where the students were murdered appeared to be a rent a room type of deal; with each student’s room probably having a heavier, more secure lock than a normal contractor-grade residential bedroom door in a private residence. If there were a lot of people coming and going throughout the common areas of the house, a door wedge could definitely increase your chances of not being a victim of an attacker that is trying to jump you in your sleep. And perhaps, the survivors had door wedges…..

Did the survivors have wedges, or is this surmising?

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

There is a national titled vechile data base. MOO, LE can sort vehicle type, within a range-state/miles/year/color " and produce vehicle owners quickly.

The vehicle they are looking for is more than likely stolen. I would think the FBI has already researched/investigated all local/student owned from exsisting data bases. They more than likely have a list of all stolen/date/location. In the US everything is tracked and by multiple private and government agencies.

yep, and regarding states' involvement and reporting -- For States

according to the map, 49 states and wa dc are in compliance, and Hawaii is coming into compliance. quoting here:

Currently, 99% of the U.S. DMV data is represented in the system based on the most current Federal Highway Administration Data (2020)

• 50 States/Participating Jurisdiction (Includes the District of Columbia) - states/jurisdiction that provides data and inquire into the system before issuing new titles
• 1 State in Development

This map represents state motor vehicle titling agencies' level of compliance with NMVTIS. These state agencies have separate responsibilities and reporting requirements under the NMVTIS rules and regulations than do other reporting entities, such as, junk/salvage yards and insurance carriers. Per the NMVTIS rules and regulations, state compliance includes providing data to NMVTIS, making title inquiries, and paying user fees.

Description
Download .PNG of map

Also, what many of us have been saying

Law Enforcement

What is NMVTIS? Law enforcement investigations have shown that criminals involved in domestic auto theft enterprises often perpetrate violent crimes, such as homicide, drug trafficking, human trafficking, and terrorism. The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) is, among other...

vehiclehistory.bja.ojp.gov

The NMVTIS Law Enforcement Access Tool assists law enforcement with:

• Investigating vehicles involved in violent crimes, smuggling (narcotics, weapons, and currency), and fraud.
• Identifying vehicle theft rings.
• Increasing the identification of other criminal enterprises involving vehicles.

Law Enforcement Access to NMVTIS​

Law enforcement agencies have two options to access the NMVTIS Law Enforcement Tool: 1) the Regional Information Sharing Systems (RISS) OR 2) Law Enforcement Online (LEO). Law enforcement access to NMVTIS data is available at no cost through RISS and LEO, which is hosted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

 

[Dysfunkshun]

I wonder if he repainted it. If white H-E is something everyone is looking for, then paint it green and drive for two weeks before it gets announced that the car is being searched for by LE.

I wonder if someone in/around Moscow bought a car paint shortly before the murders?

I’ve had that thought cross my mind too- kind of like the Fiat & Princess Diana.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Since police know the car, but not the licence plate, it seems like they have CCTV of the vehicle driving past a camera. It sounds like police are unsure whether there is one or more people in the car.

Speaking of which, why are LE so convinced this is the work of only one person when it could be two or more? Bearing in mind the number of victims, surely one logical conclusion could be there is more than one perpetrator.