ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[Parsnip]

Agree. If that's the case, then highly likely a knife had also been used in any previous encounters. So that begs the question>>>Are there any unsolved killings with similar circumstances??<<< I recall killings in Oregon and Washington mentioned here that are in this category. Have those been *ruled out* by LE?

100%

 

[Colorado303]

Yes. That is called doxxing. Imo.

Actually, it’s called slander. And it’s illegal. But on social media apparently not.

MOO

 

[Allabouttrial]

Just to clarify. This is what Kaylee's Mom and Dad said in one of their first interviews about Kaylee trying to contact J that night.

---

Dad - One of her messages, one of her last messages - she reached out to J and said 'J, get back to me' and then she goes 'we share a dog together', which they did, she's like 'you need to reach out to me', so..

Mom - 'Please come over'. She was wanting J to come over there. J is not.. they're wasting their time with J and J is just as distraught as we are.

---

 

[PolarButterflie]

What would make it “seem relevant”?

It is possible they realized the jacket had been laying there long enough (based on the condition of the jacket and the area it was found) to not be relevant to the crime which only happened a day earlier.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

There continues to be zero evidence that the car is stolen.

A. Police search the licence database for white Elantra in the map radius of their perimeter based investigation. From Moscow, to Idaho, to the broader region; for legitimate owners. Starting with 18 to 35 year old males

B. Police do the same queries for stolen Elantra vehicles in the same manner.

The perpetrator got back in the car with no blood?

 

[10ofRods]

There continues to be zero evidence that the car is stolen.

Exactly. It is just one of several scenarios that could explain this perplexing request.

A car model, color and year. No license or serial number. No known owner. No plates ever seen? Or no plates at all? Or, perhaps, just not seen so could be either?

And they want its form activities (they say), not its current whereabouts.

LOL - I agree with you. I’ll also add LE checked with other local stores with respect to sales of large fixed blade knives — they just haven’t spoken to press.

Not to bash MBS at all - my better half absentmindedly left his money clip near a register some time back. MBS reviewed their security footage, found footage of the person who made off with it, IDed the culprit, & got the money clip back (absent the cash). Had the knife been purchased there during a decent time frame, I have no doubt security footage would have been invaluable!

Sorry for not being clearer: I was specifically interested in your focus on bruising with respect to K only?

Oh, I know what you mean. The other mention of bruising.

That's coming from her father. I believe that the coroner said there was "bruising" on the victims (and did not specify how many, I am assuming all of them). SG decided that meant "she fought defensively." Yet, the Coroner has only specifically mentioned 1 person with defensive wounds (X).

The bruises mentioned by the coroner are not equivalent to "defensive wounds" (which were mentioned separately). I am guessing the bruises that were most important were those caused by the hilt of the knife, the killing instrument. So LE got confirmation from the Coroner (IMO) that it was a hilted knife, due to bruises. K's father has misunderstood, IMO.

I believe they all had bruises, most likely, due to the weapon used and their stationary position on or in a bed.

 

[WingsOverTX]

The way I remember it reported was that there were 7 calls by K, 2 calls by M, then 2 more calls by K, all using K's phone.

I'll have to go way back to double check, though.

Kaylee's sister, Alivea Goncalvez, told Inside Edition that her sibling and Madison had started making calls to Jack, who she described to be a 'young man,' at about half past two on the morning of the brutal massacre.

'Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2.26 am and 2.44 am,' Goncalvez said.

'From 2.44 to 2.52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2.52 am.'
 Idaho murder victim's sister says mystery man called night of murder

This is what I found. It doesn't say if both their phones were used or if any messages were left.

I would like to know, though.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think it's as simple as a bad judgment call. Surviving roommate saw someone lying on the floor and panicked, called a friend instead of LE, and then the friends came over and called LE when they realized there was an actual problem.

I think people are getting confused because LE and the media won't frame it for what it was: a bad decision. It was wrong to call friends instead of LE. Getting someone prompt medical attention could save their life. Calling Billy from math class instead of an EMT is dumb. But obviously these kids have been through a lot so no one wants to point out how stupid it was so then everyone gets confused by the vagueness.

There would have been a lot of blood though and that would mean that they literally found one victim motionless, didn't notice any wounds, injuries, or blood spatter (what's the chances!?), didn't freak out and yell and run to go find the other house mates (who were also already deceased) which would have been immediately obvious, didn't ring emergency services, didn't yell from the front door for a neighbour, but *did* bring a bunch of their friends in the house? How long did it take these 'friends' to arrive!?

At first I was thinking maybe someone had their cervical spine / neck artery cut and being already in bed was then covered over by a blanket. That means the person who couldn't rouse them would think they're fast asleep, maybe worry they're not breathing. Would you not sit on the bed and gently try to rouse them? And if that didn't work run to the very next room and try to consult with one of your housemates? Also they're sharing rooms so what gives? How can only one person not be roused?

Now I've gone right back to square one and I'm baffled and I don't buy it. JMO MOO

 

[mendicant]

It's not that the case has gone cold, but public interest is flagging.

 

[WingsOverTX]

The way I remember it reported was that there were 7 calls by K, 2 calls by M, then 2 more calls by K, all using K's phone.

I'll have to go way back to double check, though.

Kaylee's sister, Alivea Goncalvez, told Inside Edition that her sibling and Madison had started making calls to Jack, who she described to be a 'young man,' at about half past two on the morning of the brutal massacre.

'Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2.26 am and 2.44 am,' Goncalvez said.

'From 2.44 to 2.52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2.52 am.'
 Idaho murder victim's sister says mystery man called night of murder

This is what I found. It doesn't say if both their phones were used or if any messages were left.

I would like to know, though.

 

[Simply Southern]

yep, and regarding states' involvement and reporting -- For States

according to the map, 49 states and wa dc are in compliance, and Hawaii is coming into compliance. quoting here:

Currently, 99% of the U.S. DMV data is represented in the system based on the most current Federal Highway Administration Data (2020)

• 50 States/Participating Jurisdiction (Includes the District of Columbia) - states/jurisdiction that provides data and inquire into the system before issuing new titles
• 1 State in Development

This map represents state motor vehicle titling agencies' level of compliance with NMVTIS. These state agencies have separate responsibilities and reporting requirements under the NMVTIS rules and regulations than do other reporting entities, such as, junk/salvage yards and insurance carriers. Per the NMVTIS rules and regulations, state compliance includes providing data to NMVTIS, making title inquiries, and paying user fees.

Description
Download .PNG of map

Also, what many of us have been saying

Law Enforcement

What is NMVTIS? Law enforcement investigations have shown that criminals involved in domestic auto theft enterprises often perpetrate violent crimes, such as homicide, drug trafficking, human trafficking, and terrorism. The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) is, among other...

vehiclehistory.bja.ojp.gov

The NMVTIS Law Enforcement Access Tool assists law enforcement with:

• Investigating vehicles involved in violent crimes, smuggling (narcotics, weapons, and currency), and fraud.
• Identifying vehicle theft rings.
• Increasing the identification of other criminal enterprises involving vehicles.

Law Enforcement Access to NMVTIS​

Law enforcement agencies have two options to access the NMVTIS Law Enforcement Tool: 1) the Regional Information Sharing Systems (RISS) OR 2) Law Enforcement Online (LEO). Law enforcement access to NMVTIS data is available at no cost through RISS and LEO, which is hosted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Thank you. I worked with many government agencies, and familiar with tracking and Common working files. Most of us have little idea of the tracking by government agencies and the data is quickly available with a stroke of the key.

Moo...I think the car was stolen. The day they announced the car, a poster found a report of a matching car stolen about 90 miles away a few days prior. I've tried to find the link. I feel FBI has every stolen vehicle with that description and the LE report for each, looking for the needle in a bag stack. I would think they have researched all vehicles within a given radius, local LE follow in up in surrounding areas, all before it was crowdsourced.
The best they can hope for are leads, descriptions, location from citizen reports.

MOO.....Ain't no way in the world the person/s in the vehicle is coming forward. The killer is to smart for that.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think it's as simple as a bad judgment call. Surviving roommate saw someone lying on the floor and panicked, called a friend instead of LE, and then the friends came over and called LE when they realized there was an actual problem.

I think people are getting confused because LE and the media won't frame it for what it was: a bad decision. It was wrong to call friends instead of LE. Getting someone prompt medical attention could save their life. Calling Billy from math class instead of an EMT is dumb. But obviously these kids have been through a lot so no one wants to point out how stupid it was so then everyone gets confused by the vagueness.

There would have been a lot of blood though and that would mean that they literally found one victim motionless, didn't notice any wounds, injuries, or blood spatter (what's the chances!?), didn't freak out and yell and run to go find the other house mates (who were also already deceased) which would have been immediately obvious, didn't ring emergency services, didn't yell from the front door help help help someone help me for a neighbour, but *did* bring a bunch of their friends in the house? How long did it take these 'friends' to arrive, where did they come from!?

At first I was thinking maybe the victim had their cervical spine / neck artery cut and being already in bed was then covered over by a blanket. That means the person who couldn't rouse them would think they're fast asleep, maybe get closer and worry they're not breathing. Would you not sit on the bed and gently try to rouse them? And if that didn't work run to the very next room and try to consult with one of your housemates? Also the victims were sharing rooms so what gives? How can only one person not be roused?

Now I've gone right back to square one and I'm baffled and I don't buy it. JMO MOO

 

[di anna]

I'm still unclear on how Shetland Court or Walenta Drive relate to the mass murder.

Because there might be a trail through the woods behind this house.

 

[Puzzles8]

That means the suspect is going on google maps + viewing traffic cams online to plan his attack.

I just think we're giving this killer too much credit. Driving your car that deep into the neighborhood is just dumb and risky.

If this killer's car is on camera then we need to see it. The memphis police showed the photo they had of the killer's SUV that led to the capture of the killer several months ago when that female jogger was killed. That was early in their investigation. If Moscow has something, they need to make it public. There's nothing to gain by holding it back.

Maybe the killer did not drive the car deep into the neighborhood. We don't know where the White Elantra was seen. The car might have been observed/seen some distance away from the house. Maybe the killer hiked into the neighborhood.

JMO

 

[Cryptic]

I see this murderer as an employed man in a stereotypically male profession…one which has some risk, where hand tools are used, and where he does not have to interact often with others. I also see him as able to move around geographically a fair amount. He is accustomed to uncomfortable circumstances. I am thinking about some sort of skilled labor, like welding, tree trimming, roofing. I can’t see him holding a job for very much longer than some months because he has obvious disdain for other people. He may even prefer solitary work or third shift to minimize his interactions. He’s reliable, experienced, and good at what he does. He’s probably been at it for some time, maybe placing him in his thirties.

I think this is very well articulated.

Regarding the parts I highlighted.....

One way that an individual can have the negative personality traits you described (not interactive with others, disdain etc., yet not have trouble with employment that leads to job changes, moving / new starts is to work for family.

Family will tolerate a variety of unpleasant personalities when other employers wont. Likewise, people with those unpleasant personalities can mute them to some degree by learning to get along with family.

In short.... I would just add "or works with family" as a suffix to the job changing and moving around.

 

[lucidium]

A. Police search the licence database for white Elantra in the map radius of their perimeter based investigation. From Moscow, to Idaho, to the broader region; for legitimate owners. Starting with 18 to 35 year old males

B. Police do the same queries for stolen Elantra vehicles in the same manner.

The perpetrator got back in the car with no blood?

What? None of that is a response to what I said: "There continues to be zero evidence that the car is stolen."

 

[L.laricina]

Speaking of which, why are LE so convinced this is the work of only one person when it could be two or more? Bearing in mind the number of victims, surely one logical conclusion could be there is more than one perpetrator.

I'm not sure about LE, but what convinces me are my observations and beliefs about human behavior, in general. A person, even a deviant person, who is smart enough and bold enough to commit a crime like this also realizes that the easiest way to get caught for a crime like this, now or later, is to involve another person.

 

[CeeMDubs]

Thank you for this info, having read it, I'm still completely confused as to what happened when 'On November 13th the surviving room mates summoned friends because they believed one of the second floor victims had passed out and was not waking up...'

I know it's been debated to the nth degree but something right there doesn't stack up.

I think there’s a simple explanation.

Maybe after he and Xana were attacked in Xana’s bed, Ethan went to the bedroom door, locked it, and/or leaned up against it. He may have died trying to protect/secure the door. In the morning, the roommates aren’t getting a response and the door is locked and/or Ethan is leaned up against it. They may be able to see the shadow of his body when they look underneath the door. In that case, they’ve seen nothing, they know a person is on the other side of the door not responding. Of course they assume he’s just passed out/unconscious (why would they assume he had been killed?)
They call friends/Ethan’s siblings, who are only a stones throw from the residence, who come over and also can’t get the door open. Then 911 is called.

I think it’s something plausible and explainable-we just don’t have enough information to say exactly what happened. JMO

*Edited for clarity

 

[Parsnip]

I think this is very well articulated.

Regarding the parts I highlighted.....

One way that an individual can have the negative personality traits you described (not interactive with others, disdain etc., yet not have trouble with employment that leads to job changes, moving / new starts is to work for family.

Family will tolerate a variety of unpleasant personalities when other employers wont. Likewise, people with those unpleasant personalities can mute them to some degree by learning to get along with family.

In short.... I would just add "or works with family" as a suffix to the job changing and moving around.

Excellent observation. Thank you.

 

[TravellingCat]

I see a few relatively straightforward ways to get out of town without passing by one of these main traffic cameras. Surely, they're combing through some data. Edit: I don't think the Idaho DOT cams keep more than a still shot every 15 seconds. Hopefully they pulled those before being erased since they don't keep them long term.