ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

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From all media outlets that are approved by Web Sleuths. I find it very interesting that multiple professional behaviourists and ex law enforcers believe these dreadful murders were committed by one perpetrator (possibly a male) Why would someone targeting one person do this? I therefore believe this could be a random serial killer MOO

I think the chance is high. Question is, is it a local serial killer? Or someone who travels to Idaho, for whatever reason?

I read many times that SK "hunt" not so far from home. Israel Keys seems to be an outlier, but maybe not. It is quite possible that he simply moved frequently due to work, and his kills were not that far from periodic abodes.

So a serial killer who ends up in a student town, who could he be? Either he belongs to a student group, or maybe is from the teachers cluster (why not?), or he has a hobby that frequently brings him to Idaho?

We said, hunting. I would think, skiing, including cross-country. There are star garnets in Idaho, maybe someone mining stones in US/Canada? This corner, Mo-ID-Ore-WA-BC is the prospectors' haven (In this case, the connection with Oregon is possible - Oregon sunstone and agate, need to check if that area is far from the Oregon murders).

Another question, we have always looked at ID or WA when we discussed crossing Canadian border. What about traveling to the other side, Montana or North Dakota, and crossing there? Or in general, could the killer be from Montana? I understand that statistically, Montana is not as populated, but it is possible, as it is very close to Idaho.

P.S. I looked up the mining places. Between Fernsdale, ID and Moscow it is about one hour. Sapphire Mountains of Montana are on its Western side, close to ID border. Oregon sunstones are not that close to Salem, in its East-Southern corner, but not that far from Moscow. Just an idea about another job that might bring a traveling SK to Idaho.
 
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Even if they don't have a single digit of the license plate, as high profile as this case is - and the monumental efforts by both law enforcement and the public to locate it - the car or occupant(s) should be known by now.

My opinion.

I would hope the LE knows exactly who owns it so unless the plates were fake, or no plates or fake paper plates...or the person who owns it is long gone with the car or dumped or reported it stolen.
I guess it's driving me crazy...I hope they catch this person ASAP!
 
Oh, don't get me wrong, I definitely don't think she lied about this. I just hope that this mother took that info straight to LE and not to a reporter first (she probably did). This is just the first time I'm hearing anything about Ethan's and Xana's timeline/whereabouts that has always been in question after 9:00 p.m. that evening.
I dunno but

in that news nation clip we watched ...
Mathias says

the mother contacted LE with the info ( the son's text from Ethin) & a week later LE still hadn't got back to the mother re the text

edited to add
OTOH, as LE must already have Ethan's phone, then they will already have all of Ethan's outgoing texts won't they? Maybe this is why LE didn't get back to the mum ( They already know about the _ _ _ _ _ _ text! they can't afford to call back folk who don't have info of value to the case )

So what is Lauren Mathias on about? ( Thanks SRWCF for making me think about it)
 
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I have been wondering if possibly the perp did a lot of walking. I even wondered if someone in the white car unknowingly dropped him off, but I doubt that. just my own opinion
A previously-missed scenario where two cameras show two different number of occupants in a tight area is certainly one I've toyed with. Particularly one where a vehicle ends up on Taylor.
 
I would hope the LE knows exactly who owns it so unless the plates were fake, or no plates or fake paper plates...or the person who owns it is long gone with the car or dumped or reported it stolen.
I guess it's driving me crazy...I hope they catch this person ASAP!

We're a month in. An innocent someone would've reported the car stolen early on and likely prior to the murders. Anyone who tried to do so afterwards would more than likely be the killer (or accomplice).

This car essentially has to be owned and used by someone, IMO, and even with no specific plate identifiers should've been found by now.
 
Does anyone know if Kaylee worked part time in Moscow while in college?

I know at the time of the murders she was living at home and about to move to Texas.

I'm just thinking if she had a stalker he would go to her place of work to observe her or interact with her.

I know that Xana and Maddie worked at the Greek place.

Maybe he saw her at the Corner Club and went to their house with a sexual motive.
Good points! Any of the 3 female victims could have had one creepy customer who always insisted that they wait their table. Maybe this unknown creep knew what time their shift ended and followed them home, and began surveiling the house until he became familiar with their daily routine.

I suppose whatever happened with the girls at the Corner Club will remain a mystery as not much of anything is known about the 2 hrs they spent there, and bar employees as well as patrons have been asked by LE to not speak to the press. One might speculate that cameras inside the bar could have possibly identified potential POI's, but LE is obviously keeping what they know close to the vest.
 
I think the chance is high. Question is, is it a local serial killer? Or someone who travels to Idaho, for whatever reason?

I read many times that SK "hunt" not so far from home. Israel Keys seems to be an outlier, but maybe not. It is quite possible that he simply moved frequently due to work, and his kills were not that far from periodic abodes.

So a serial killer who ends up in a student town, who could he be? Either he belongs to a student group, or maybe is from the teachers cluster (why not?), or he has a hobby that frequently brings him to Idaho?

We said, hunting. I would think, skiing, including cross-country. There are star garnets in Idaho, maybe someone mining stones in US/Canada? This corner, Mo-ID-Ore-WA-BC is the prospectors' haven (In this case, the connection with Oregon is possible - Oregon sunstone and agate, need to check if that area is far from the Oregon murders).

Another question, we have always looked at ID or WA when we discussed crossing Canadian border. What about traveling to the other side, Montana or North Dakota, and crossing there? Or in general, could the killer be from Montana? I understand that statistically, Montana is not as populated, but it is possible, as it is very close to Idaho.

So if it is an SK have there been other similar killings close by? or in a regional area?
Are any patterns emerging?
What are the killer's comfort zones?
If this was the killer's first killing then it will be hard to see a pattern, but killing four for the first time?

Geographic profiling​

 
Even if they don't have a single digit of the license plate, as high profile as this case is - and the monumental efforts by both law enforcement and the public to locate it - the car or occupant(s) should be known by now.

My opinion.

Unless of course the car is now underwater somewhere or abandoned on some little used forest road. It's still early for those kinds of finds to be made.

Part of me thinks they do have an idea who the owner is, but the owner is not cooperating with the investigation and is not themselves a suspect. <modsnip: quoted post removed>

Have you ever been in a neighbor war? We were. Our house was broken into on multiple occasions by our neighbor. We had camera footage (but had had a power outage caused by the same neighbors so that the timestamps were useless and LE did not even look at it). We had a witness to that neighbor hopping the fence and also going through the mail on our front porch (stole credit card numbers). I had proof that one of the fraudulent uses of our credit card was to send cellular phones to our neighbor's daughter in another state.

NONE of this made LE take notice. They told us to secure our mailbox, report the fraud to the bank, and put up cameras and make sure timestamps were accurate. I consulted a private attorney and got good advice (at my own expense) on how to proceed (first by at least making a police report and then by giving the criminal neighbor a copy of it). It was a tense time. It was actually life-changing and took 3-4 years to begin to get over, as we lived in fear. They sent relatives to our house to harass us. There was broken glass and stuff put under our car tires (and nails and screws). My work schedule is published online, so they knew when I was away and they continued to try to get into the house - always switching off our electricity, so we put a lock on the electrical box and finally, it was better. However, as you can imagine, relations were strained. After a year of not being vandalized, stolen from or harassed, it started to get better. The lawyer helped us with various tactics, and at one point, I had to ponder whether the drug house around the corner was related to these neighbors in any way (nope). I contacted other neighbors and found we weren't the only ones adjacent to these criminals who had had things stolen (I now understand why the neighbor on the other side got a pit bull-type dog and keeps that dog in her back yard - the criminal neighbor actually has visible stuff in her backyard stolen from that neighbor).

So, yeah, these things can get out of hand. If a rental is involved, anger at the landlord can be transferred to the inhabitants (noise complaints). There's probably a reason why the landlord banned dogs, as well (prior complaints?)

But the type of person who actually goes to war with a neighbor to the point of violence is not a person like you or me. I tried only legal channels of response. Period. Full stop. Other people are not so inclined. And then, some people have delusional thought disorders that cause them to be paranoid - just enough to make them what we might call insanely angry but functional.

I can imagine a scenario in which the landlord of 1122 King added onto the house in a non-permitted way, or a way that no one else in the neighborhood was permitted to use, and then went on to allow it to be a party house. A neighbor could have complained over a period of 10 years or so, and sees the students as just one long chain of the same people - and the only people on whom he can take out his anger.

This is not my favorite scenario, but it is definitely on the table. The Elantra request from LE makes me think it's not a neighbor, though.

Or, maybe it is - perhaps there was an Elantra seen frequently at the apartment building nearby and now it's gone? No one took its license plate down and no one knows who owns it?
 
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It says, "On the floor." Now, it turns out the DM article is nearly a word for word copy of a NY Post article in which it says "on the second floor," so perhaps a misprint?
Snipped for focus

Great catch! This entire rumor may just be the result of sloppy copying. Which shouldn't surprise me with regards to the DM
 
I don't think we know the answers to most of your question (whether an actual Ka-Bar or a similar knife). The bruises described on K's body may be the evidence of the hilt, which can give an idea as to the model or even brand of the knife - whether that's been forensically determined or is a working guess, we don't know.

I agree that many people have such knives. There are lots of reasons to get a knife with a hilt. We have no clue what size this one was. We have two hunting knives, too (carried in our cars, for various reasons, but used when camping). Ours are the camping style, not with hilt, but outdoors people often have both.

I don't think that knife means "military training" at all. There's a knife and outdoor ax subculture in Moscow (and the Western US in general, if you ask me), so lots of people have those weapons (we do; the ax is crucial to our camping experiences, and it's also fun to try and throw it at a target). A former Marine was posting on a prior thread about actual Marine training with that knife - and they were not taught to use a stabbing motion nor did they practice on prone individuals.

That knife, when located, will be a crucial clue in this case. I sure hope it's not under water by now.
BBM

Not sure where bruising specific to K comes from?

“Mabbutt said that the victims showed "little bit of bruising" but "nothing significant." She added that some bruising "wouldn't be uncommon during a stabbing."”
11/17/22 Coroner Cathy Mabbutt interview
Coroner Has New Details About Fatal Slaying of 4 U of Idaho Students After Autopsies
 
The DM article doesn't say 'out of the bedroom.' I thought the same thing, so spent all day yesterday trying to track down how I got that idea.

It says, "On the floor." Now, it turns out the DM article is nearly a word for word copy of a NY Post article in which it says "on the second floor," so perhaps a misprint? Then the coroner says "all in their beds." THEN, the coroner (as linked by a wonderful WSer whose name I cannot recall yet - sorry) says "SOME were in their beds."

Keep in mind that the first floor roommates come up stairs to no evidence of a crime, except that their roomies' phones are in their (apparently closed) rooms and they start calling friends (probably to try and get the doors open). I do not know if they did this - but it sure sounds as if they did, as one of the newcomers says he "saw a body" and then of course, takes over the 911 call from the understandably hysterical roommate.

If there *was* a body bleeding out in the middle of the kitchen/living room, I think we'd see way more blood. This killer counted on containing the blood by killing sleeping people. Coroner has backpedaled on "all were asleep," but never said that anyone was outside either of the two murder rooms.

I agree overall with your theory - perhaps the killer heard some quiet noises or rustling in the 2nd room, goes in and removes those potential witnesses. I agree that Ethan might have been partly or entirely out of bed by that time, but I bet he was forcefully pushed back onto it and if there was a scream, it would have been Xana's, before she was silenced.
I can entertain all theories, except that I don't buy that he killed E and X first, so I have to theorize on why he killed them at all, as their bedroom was not in his planned path, imo. I don't want to revive the whole debate about what the coroner meant by "their" beds, as some posters believe that meant possessive, but I don't, I think she meant "some victims were killed in A bed". Or was it "found in a bed?" . And as I said earlier " They were probably asleep" para, is meaningless, an effort to sooth the families, how could she know they were asleep or not. I wonder if the killer even knew KG was back.
 
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I think the chance is high. Question is, is it a local serial killer? Or someone who travels to Idaho, for whatever reason?

I read many times that SK "hunt" not so far from home. Israel Keys seems to be an outlier, but maybe not. It is quite possible that he simply moved frequently due to work, and his kills were not that far from periodic abodes.

So a serial killer who ends up in a student town, who could he be? Either he belongs to a student group, or maybe is from the teachers cluster (why not?), or he has a hobby that frequently brings him to Idaho?

We said, hunting. I would think, skiing, including cross-country. There are star garnets in Idaho, maybe someone mining stones in US/Canada? This corner, Mo-ID-Ore-WA-BC is the prospectors' haven (In this case, the connection with Oregon is possible - Oregon sunstone and agate, need to check if that area is far from the Oregon murders).

Another question, we have always looked at ID or WA when we discussed crossing Canadian border. What about traveling to the other side, Montana or North Dakota, and crossing there? Or in general, could the killer be from Montana? I understand that statistically, Montana is not as populated, but it is possible, as it is very close to Idaho.
I totally agree with you. That is probably why LE might be totally baffled about this?. I do hope forensic science will out this monster before they kill again
 
I can entertain all theories, except that I don't buy that he killed E and X first. I don't want to revive the whole debate about what the coroner meant by "their" beds, as some posters believe that meant possessive, but I don't, I think she meant "some victims were killed in A bed". Or was it "found in a bed?" . And as I said earlier " They were probably asleep" para, is meaningless, an effort to sooth the families, how could she know they were asleep or not. I wonder if the killer even knew KG was back. I guess until we hear more details, it's really similar to that game "Clue" that I grew up on.

They could tell they were asleep if they didn’t move from the bed, no defensive marks, maybe just one or two stabs, nothing else disturbed.
 
There is a national titled vechile data base. MOO, LE can sort vehicle type, within a range-state/miles/year/color " and produce vehicle owners quickly.

The vehicle they are looking for is more than likely stolen. I would think the FBI has already researched/investigated all local/student owned from exsisting data bases. They more than likely have a list of all stolen/date/location. In the US everything is tracked and by multiple private and government agencies.


The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) was created under the Anti Car Theft Act of 1992. In 1996, the Anti Car Theft Act was reauthorized and amended, transferring the responsibility for NMVTIS from the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) to the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ). NMVTIS is designed to prevent various types of automobile theft and fraud by providing an electronic means for verifying and exchanging title, brand, theft, and other data among state motor vehicle titling agencies, law enforcement officials, consumers, and other authorized users of the System. Where implemented, NMVTIS has already produced results, including time and cost savings, reductions in consumer wait time, improved recovery rate of stolen vehicles, increased ability to identify cloned vehicles prior to title issuance, and improved investigative abilities.
I would also add that it could have been privately purchased for cash and not titled or registered in the new owner's name.
 
I don't think we know the answers to most of your question (whether an actual Ka-Bar or a similar knife). The bruises described on K's body may be the evidence of the hilt, which can give an idea as to the model or even brand of the knife - whether that's been forensically determined or is a working guess, we don't know.

I agree that many people have such knives. There are lots of reasons to get a knife with a hilt. We have no clue what size this one was. We have two hunting knives, too (carried in our cars, for various reasons, but used when camping). Ours are the camping style, not with hilt, but outdoors people often have both.

I don't think that knife means "military training" at all. There's a knife and outdoor ax subculture in Moscow (and the Western US in general, if you ask me), so lots of people have those weapons (we do; the ax is crucial to our camping experiences, and it's also fun to try and throw it at a target). A former Marine was posting on a prior thread about actual Marine training with that knife - and they were not taught to use a stabbing motion nor did they practice on prone individuals.

That knife, when located, will be a crucial clue in this case. I sure hope it's not under water by now.
In an earlier thread here there was discussion of combat knives being one edge sharp and the top edge serrated, made sense to me the serrated side was making the bruises, but I just looked up the brand they referenced, no serrated top, it's smooth. I'm back on hilt theororizing.
 
Unless of course the car is now underwater somewhere or abandoned on some little used forest road. It's still early for those kinds of finds to be made.

Part of me thinks they do have an idea who the owner is, but the owner is not cooperating with the investigation and is not themselves a suspect.

If the car is at the bottom of a quarry reservoir, that shouldn't matter. Both it and the owner should have been identified by now with all of the technology and resources available and being implemented, to include crowdsourcing.

To your second sentence, a judge would certainly sign a search/confiscate warrant immediately if they had the car in sights, no matter the protests of any bystanding owner..

My opinion.
 
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