ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[CityKid]

I am curious if the general consensus is that one person alone carried out the attack ?
Idk what to think ..
it seems like so much work for just one person IMO and also at the same time too much hate to be shared as motive JMO

Unless it is some kind of hate crime or “statement” ….. ? like a knife version of our now-routine mass shootings
Strange
MOO

IMO, I've always thought it was two people. I don't think it was due to someone being dumped by a girlfriend. I think there's something much larger and endemic to Greek life, and some of the victims knew something about it. When I think of the dark side of Greek life, I think drugs, hidden crimes (including but not limited to SA) and hazing. I think whichever of these activities was learned about by a victim was what set off the murders. I believe one or both of the killers (and perhaps whoever took away the evidence) has gotten away with something like this (but not anything as horrifying as a quadruple homicide) in the past and was confident it would work again. MOO

 

[CityKid]

(snipped) a tic tok psychic

I'm not sure I'm emotionally prepared for a world where "TikTok psychic" is an actual thing.

 

[drmrgrl]

Oh, I can’t believe anyone, anyone at all, would murder FOUR tenants because he’d possibly had an altercation with the landlord? No way would anyone, however crazy, do a thing like that - it’s insane.

Anyhow, I read it was a girl who’d lived there and had moved out because she’d been offered a fab job or placement.

Do you seriously think anyone would kill four young people, some unknown to them because of a landlord dispute? How did you think that one up?

I’m grasping at straws. I M trying to come up with every conceivable motive and theory. I think this crime is so confounding and scary IMO

 

[drmrgrl]

I think that taking off shoes would leave lots of evidence.
Fibres of socks with skin dead cells/sweat (DNA) and also so called "touch DNA" .

JMO

Yes, but no one would hear him IMO

 

[drmrgrl]

Oh, I can’t believe anyone, anyone at all, would murder FOUR tenants because he’d possibly had an altercation with the landlord? No way would anyone, however crazy, do a thing like that - it’s insane.

Anyhow, I read it was a girl who’d lived there and had moved out because she’d been offered a fab job or placement.

Do you seriously think anyone would kill four young people, some unknown to them because of a landlord dispute? How did you think that one up?

I keep coming back to “the house” being targeted and my mind drifted to previous roommates or someone who may have been unfairly evicted from the home. IMO. Happy holidays to you.

 

[drmrgrl]

IMO, I've always thought it was two people. I don't think it was due to someone being dumped by a girlfriend. I think there's something much larger and endemic to Greek life, and some of the victims knew something about it. When I think of the dark side of Greek life, I think drugs, hidden crimes (including but not limited to SA) and hazing. I think whichever of these activities was learned about by a victim was what set off the murders. I believe one or both of the killers (and perhaps whoever took away the evidence) has gotten away with something like this (but not anything as horrifying as a quadruple homicide) in the past and was confident it would work again. MOO

IMO.That sounds about right.

 

[The Observer]

‘She was living the life that she deserved’: Maddie Mogen’s father braces for first Christmas without her.
'She was living the life that she deserved': Maddie Mogen's father braces for first Christmas without her

 

[fridaybaker]

I think that taking off shoes would leave lots of evidence.
Fibres of socks with skin dead cells/sweat (DNA) and also so called "touch DNA" .

JMO

I think the thought would cross his mind to take off his shoes so as not to wake up the residents but he’d likely end up nixing it due to needing the traction and agility that shoes would give vs. stocking or bare feet. I’d think in the long run that would weigh more than the noise factor. Also, these folks all seem to wear tennis shoes most of the time, so he maybe figured he was safe there if he made an effort to walk quietly.

 

[AngTxGal]

al66pine said:
In context of 5-6 yr relationship, w "break"/breakup a few months ago, I can understand relative saying WTTE: We all thought they were getting married. Meaning, we thought so for swveral yrs, UNTIL this break/breakup.
She may have even cont'ed thinking that AFTER break/breakup, as the couple had broken up & reconciled before, iirc.
Some fam members get v enthusiastic about the younger gen. getting married.

Not just his aunt. Goncalves’ mom, in an interview on “Lawrence Jones Cross Country“

“Kaylee and Jack would have eventually been married. They would have eventually been married, and they would have eventually had children.”

Did anyone else find it odd that JD’s aunt and KG’s mom to be so open about what they expected and had prepared for the future of these young people.
It appears these two had been dating each other long enough, consistently Or off and on, to not have had much dating experience with anyone else.

While that fact may seem comforting to the aunt and mom, upon entering college the two young people may have realized how odd that was. In this day and age high school sweethearts who maintain relationships through college is not common.
Yes the college years are about education, but they are also a phase of identify development. The 3-5 years in college are a becoming process, where young adults spread their wings and jump from the parental and small town nest into the larger world.
Some jump 1000s of miles away from home, others a few 100 miles.
Being so close to home and attending college with a high school sweetheart may have felt safe, but could have hindered this becoming process.
KG taking a job in TX and planning to move there in Feb may have been her assertion of distance as a form of independence and self discovery.

I found it odd for JD’s aunt and KG’s mom’s comments what appears to be taking KG’s choice of independency away, essentially stifling her And the status quo rather than celebrating the distance and independence Texas would offer.
Why? To protect her honor, to assure themselves of the known safety and security JD represented to them? Young women in some older women’s minds are still mostly wives and mothers no matter what degree they hold or job title they earn. This is especially true if the mom followed her dreams to marry her high school sweetheart having earned a college degree she did not use. Some Moms encourage their daughters to reach farther than they themselves chose to reach, others prefer a known.

What did JD think of K’s move? I would hope he would be encouraging, knowing that holding her back is not healthy nor Is it love for her.
What we don’t know are JD’s plans. When would he graduate? Mechanical engineering is not a partying degree any more than premed or preLaw. I cannot imagine how he could balance his own goals with the life and aspirations of his party popular girlfriend.
It seems clear to me that their live paths were different, they may have been growing apart, and a future with them together was uncertain.

All this in an effort to understand the significance of K’s move to Texas among the many other changes taking place in her life. I see none of them as suspect In any way.

JMO

 

[fridaybaker]

Why do the aunt & mom seem to be so invested in this relationship? I just find it odd that third parties, which they are, have spoken out as if these two young people have no personal agency in their love life (or lack thereof).

It really stands out to me. And puzzles me.

What's up?

JMO

WingsoverTexas, this is what I’ve been wondering about myself, but couldn’t come up with a way to express it as succinctly as you have. It was underlying my comment about JD and marriage by the aunt in the article. I find it very perplexing that parents and other relatives would characterize their relationship repeatedly in a way that they, themselves, don’t seem to.

K was moving away from the area, starting her career and had broken up with her childhood boyfriend. J lets the relatives talk about them getting married in the future. I think I’d go by K’s own words and actions. Wouldn’t she know best about her own life?

Strange lack of agency for 21 year olds on the verge of being graduated from college. Just trying to get a picture of things.

 

[The Observer]

For those catching up.

"The person who lived below me always said he could hear me walking around," recalled Alteneder. "I had a desk and a rolling chair, and he could hear that roll around."

Idaho murders: Footsteps can be heard on 'every floor,' former tenant says

 

[ilovewings]

‘She was living the life that she deserved’: Maddie Mogen’s father braces for first Christmas without her.
'She was living the life that she deserved': Maddie Mogen's father braces for first Christmas without her

It is so heartbreaking to see a picture of Maddie as a young child. It sounds like the police are keeping her father in the loop and are acting in a very caring manner towards this family. I hope and pray they can find the monster that did this, sooner, rather than later.

 

[AngTxGal]

Dotta said:
I think that taking off shoes would leave lots of evidence.
Fibres of socks with skin dead cells/sweat (DNA) and also so called "touch DNA" .

I think the thought would cross his mind to take off his shoes so as not to wake up the residents but he’d likely end up nixing it due to needing the traction and agility that shoes would give vs. stocking or bare feet. I’d think in the long run that would weigh more than the noise factor. Also, these folks all seem to wear tennis shoes most of the time, so he maybe figured he was safe there if he made an effort to walk quietly.

I think questions about footwear, hands, gear are super important. It seems clear he wanted to move quickly and avoid detection and unplanned confrontation.
There are different types of movements and switches between each.
-entry to the house,
-through the house,
-protecting self from defenders,
-attacking victims,
-escape.

What about his feet?
Yes a choice of footwear or not would give him sure footing and different amounts of nois on a wood floor and around corners going up and down steps.
Barefeet would leave DNA
Socks could leave fibers and high amounts of scent for dogs
Shoes could leave traces of mud or dirt.

My home is mapped out in my mind, but moving through it quickly in darkness I would still have to touch walls to be certain of my location.

What was in his hands?
Flashlight or headlamp?
Knife in hand or sheath?
Blunt force weapon in hand?
Gun in hand or holster as backup?
Tools for entry To home and rooms?

Did he wear gloves?
Did he touch the walls, use the handrails on the stairs?

Walking through the house in my mind, with the goal of speed, choices at each door, stability and quickness at each turn, then the rise in steps and coming back down makes it a lot to do for two hands, quickly, in the dark, demands agility.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

IMO, I've always thought it was two people. I don't think it was due to someone being dumped by a girlfriend. I think there's something much larger and endemic to Greek life, and some of the victims knew something about it. When I think of the dark side of Greek life, I think drugs, hidden crimes (including but not limited to SA) and hazing. I think whichever of these activities was learned about by a victim was what set off the murders. I believe one or both of the killers (and perhaps whoever took away the evidence) has gotten away with something like this (but not anything as horrifying as a quadruple homicide) in the past and was confident it would work again. MOO

The dark side of Greek life is fueled by high levels of Competition

• Competition between guys for certain girls, and girls for certain guys
• Competition between younger guys and older guys for their legacy within the Frat- same with Sororities- stories from those that came before are huge
• Competition between frats and between sororities- grades, athletic events, bragging rights
• Competition between sons and fathers, daughters and their mothers or sisters- what will you add to the family story?

Of course everyone wishes everyone else well, and we all want others to succeed, maybe, maybe not In the arena of competition!

JMO

 

[Which_pancake]

I choose to believe that K and J's families know more about the nature of their relationship than strangers online do. MOO

 

[The Observer]

Dotta said:
I think that taking off shoes would leave lots of evidence.
Fibres of socks with skin dead cells/sweat (DNA) and also so called "touch DNA" .



I think questions about footwear, hands, gear are super important. It seems clear he wanted to move quickly and avoid detection and unplanned confrontation.
There are different types of movements and switches between each.
-entry to the house,
-through the house,
-protecting self from defenders,
-attacking victims,
-escape.

What about his feet?
Yes a choice of footwear or not would give him sure footing and different amounts of nois on a wood floor and around corners going up and down steps.
Barefeet would leave DNA
Socks could leave fibers and high amounts of scent for dogs
Shoes could leave traces of mud or dirt.

My home is mapped out in my mind, but moving through it quickly in darkness I would still have to touch walls to be certain of my location.

What was in his hands?
Flashlight or headlamp?
Knife in hand or sheath?
Blunt force weapon in hand?
Gun in hand or holster as backup?
Tools for entry To home and rooms?

Did he wear gloves?
Did he touch the walls, use the handrails on the stairs?

Walking through the house in my mind, with the goal of speed, choices at each door, stability and quickness at each turn, then the rise in steps and coming back down makes it a lot to do for two hands, quickly, in the dark, demands agility.

JMO

This is an interesting article..

Best Sneaking Shoes For Being Quiet (Silent Shoes For Walking Like a Ninja)

Silence is a survivalist’s ally.

The Silent Stalk Sneaker

Best Sneaking Shoes For Being Quiet (Silent Shoes)

Which, with a long with knife, would bring you back to the perp being an experienced hunter and/or outdoors person.

 

[AngTxGal]

Let’s pretend that M and K had a mutual friend Stephanie that had a crush on Adam. Stephanie has been hinting to Adam that she likes him but he hasn’t seemed to pick up on it. Stephanie has told M and K that she’s head over heels for Adam, is planning to ask him to go see The Black Keys with her in January, and had a dream the other night where they were married and had two daughters together. Well guess what? Maddie had one too many Jell-O shots and gushed to Adam everything that Stephanie has said. EVERYTHING.

My scenario is obviously completely made up and I have no idea if “everything” is something completely trivial or if “everything” is somehow secret information that got a household of wonderful people murdered. There just isn’t enough context to support any one particular interpretation IMO.

Interesting, quite the drama and also plausible!
I did not see K as being angry or surprised about M talking to A or sharing info.
I had thought the plan may have been to share info with A.
M and K were childhood friends
M and her bf had been dating for years
K and her bf had been on and off for years
The bfs knew each other well, all four would have grown up together

Where did M’s bf go to school? And live?
If he was not nearby, the path to leak info to JD would be A and not M’s bf.

As so many changes were taking place in K’s life, I wondered what she had told JD and what she had not.
How long had she been planning on moving to Texas?
What discussions had they had about Murphy?
When would JD graduate? What were his plans?
When did M graduate and her bf? What were her plans after graduation?

Edit: I also think all this feels a bit dramatic for college students, but college students don‘t typically keep a bf from high school And solidify their bf, marriage, and plans for children with the same person at age 16 or 17.

JMO

 

[The Observer]

Interesting, quite the drama and also plausible!
I did not see K as being angry or surprised about M talking to A or sharing info.
I had thought the plan may have been to share info with A.
M and K were childhood friends
M and her bf had been dating for years
K and her bf had been on and off for years
The bfs knew each other well, all four would have grown up together

Where did M’s bf go to school? And live?
If he was not nearby, the path to leak info to JD would be A and not M’s bf.

As so many changes were taking place in K’s life, I wondered what she had told JD and what she had not.
How long had she been planning on moving to Texas?
What discussions had they had about Murphy?
When did JD graduate?
When did M graduate and her bf?

JMO

Neither J nor M have/had graduated yet.

 

[Pharmasgirl]

Long distance relationships are tough… No one knows what their relationship really was but them.

 

[The Observer]

i've been wandering through the streets of idaho for half an hour mostly because I find this whole thing quite interesting, on google streetview anyways, i zoomed in 120 third street Moscow

anyhoo isn't this the exact kind of car they were looking for?

the streetview is september 2022 so really recent.

That's a Ford Focus.