ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

[Fascinated1]

One thing I have not seen discussed further (except by this group earlier) is the lack of blood evidence outside the home. I know we said in earlier threads there were possibilities that the killer was very precise and there was little blood to be cast off—but then we heard the parents talk about the mess that was left on scene. How can there be nothing outside? I think what caught my eye was the picture of the detectives in the woods yesterday-there weren’t a lot of evidence markers in the pictures. We’ve talked about the fact that he prob didn’t want to stay to clean up-but where is the blood outside?

 

[justanotherwebsleuthyall]

Sorry if this has been discussed. I'm just thinking out loud and won't say I'm near caught up. This is a real-life tragedy and the poor loved ones and I do not mean to sound insensitive, accusatory, or callous in any way, I'm just a little disappointed that I feel like I am thinking a lot about the interview from the parents. Partly, because we don't have a lot of direct information to think about.

But in it they talk about their daughter potentially buying her first vehicle on her own (was it confirmed that was the Range Rover?), potentially coming to school to show it off for that weekend, potentially initiating the break from a long-term relationship, potentially going backpacking through Europe for the month of January (doesn't say with whom), potentially moving to start a new lucrative job in Feb at the same company she interned at, and potentially talking to the ex the whole week and a half she was home and one of the last messages appealed to co-parenting the dog as a reason to come over. They certainly say more than that, to be clear, if you haven't listened to it.

In my opinion, these details could be just terrible and awful coincidences. Assuming it is accurate information. And certainly it's important to remember this is just one side of the story. The way they seem to talk so clearly is gut-wrenching for me as it almost seems like they may not have processed everything fully and honestly could they have. I will not pretend to understand a situation like this for loved ones or how they manage emotions and perspectives afterwards. To be sure, I am not suggesting blame or recklessly insinuating any accusations of anything at anyone. I feel that anything is possible here and I'm waiting for justice to be served every hour that passes. MOO.

Great points.

 

[MCath]

I’ve been trying to catch up on the threads, but it’s very fast moving, so I apologize if this has been brought up: TMZ, Daily Mail, and Fox News (not my typical go to sources of news, but many people do, Google News brings it up) are reporting that a resident’s dog in the town was found skinned weeks before this case and that the resident says the dog never leaves the yard so someone must have been watching. Both cases - waiting to skin a dog, and waiting til girls come home and fall asleep to stab them- would involve a very disturbed person with a knife and we know that investigators were going into the woods by the girls house to see what the view would have been from the woods. I wonder if there is a connection. It seems like every person who I would have thought could potentially be a suspect- the food truck guy, driver, roommates have been cleared. Logically it doesn’t make sense for the girls to repeatedly call the ex if he was there or involved at all. Moscow only has about 26 thousand people what are the chances of their being such crazy violent crimes like this within a few weeks? The lack of any sexual assault on the girls is also important I think. I am wondering if this is some sort of incel and if there is a possible connection to the targeted dog attack. This could be someone the girls knew, but could just as easily been someone observing them on social media.

 

[Strong1]

I know that they think the two surviving room mates got home at about 1 . They think kaylee and Madison got home around 1:45 . Kaylee calls J 6 times from 2:26 -2:44 and Madison then calls J from 2:44 -2:52 three times . Kaylee again Calls J one final time at 2:52. The murders are suspected to have occurred between 2 am and 5 am and the police call was made at 11:58 am from one of the surviving roommates phone .

Thank you!

 

[seasideForest]

Was any one able to link the Buddy the dog location info to one of the maps? If so please repost. Thank you!

Check over on the Media thread ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION More or less all known information and all sources are listed.
Edit by me for clarity

 

[taylorss]

I don't think any of them had separate beds in the same room. Unless I missed something. Imo.

Oh ok I must have the wrong idea! For some reason I thought it was two victims in one room, two victims in another, & that one of the sets of victims was a couple & the other was not … is this part at least all correct? And then I guess I assumed the non-couple pair were in separate beds in the same room… no? Thanks!
Moo

 

[Erutan]

Sorry if this has been discussed. I'm just thinking out loud and won't say I'm near caught up. This is a real-life tragedy and the poor loved ones and I do not mean to sound insensitive, accusatory, or callous in any way, I'm just a little disappointed that I feel like I am thinking a lot about the interview from the parents. Partly, because we don't have a lot of direct information to think about.

But in it they talk about their daughter potentially buying her first vehicle on her own (was it confirmed that was the Range Rover?), potentially coming to school to show it off for that weekend, potentially initiating the break from a long-term relationship, potentially going backpacking through Europe for the month of January (doesn't say with whom), potentially moving to start a new lucrative job in Feb at the same company she interned at, and potentially talking to the ex the whole week and a half she was home and one of the last messages appealed to co-parenting the dog as a reason to come over. They certainly say more than that, to be clear, if you haven't listened to it.

In my opinion, these details could be just terrible and awful coincidences. Assuming it is accurate information. And certainly it's important to remember this is just one side of the story. The way they seem to talk so clearly is gut-wrenching for me as it almost seems like they may not have processed everything fully and honestly could they have. I will not pretend to understand a situation like this for loved ones or how they manage emotions and perspectives afterwards. To be sure, I am not suggesting blame or recklessly insinuating any accusations of anything at anyone. I feel that anything is possible here and I'm waiting for justice to be served every hour that passes. MOO.

Agreed, it's like they're looking back at the most minute details of what was going on in her life and searching their minds for clues as to why this terrible thing happened.
Is that what you're saying ?
That someone in her circle of friends and acquaintances may have become jealous of her ?

I'm still on the fence about whether a stranger killed them, or a feud with people known to them.

Graphic :




The lack of any blood on the door handles or furniture/walls from the perp makes me think they wore gloves and took them off after the killings.
As in, if you wear a gloves and it's bloody, you'd still leave an imprint if touching a door knob, etc.
My .02.

 

[taylorss]

….
One more possibility. This has been referred to as a party house. There might easily have been drugs/drug residue in the house, regardless of whether it belonged to the tenants. That could certainly be a reason to call a friend rather than police.

Ah that’s a good point

 

[fashionella]

I’m so far behind but here is my theory on the 911 call.

Two surviving roommates hear something in the night, get scared and lock their doors. Or maybe they both went into one room and locked up. Anyway, they convince themselves they’re being paranoid.

Next morning they wake up and don’t hear their roommates, they text, they call, no response so they start to panic but feel silly calling 911 so they call a friend to come check things out. Friend finds a body and one of the roommates calls 911 but is upset and crying so friend who came over talks to 911 operator.

All JMO

yes yes yes. It's pretty obvious to me that this is how it went

 

[Erutan]

Oh ok I must have the wrong idea! For some reason I thought it was two victims in one room, two victims in another, & that one of the sets of victims was a couple & the other was not … is this part at least all correct? And then I guess I assumed the non-couple pair were in separate beds in the same room… no? Thanks!
Moo

That sounds correct.
The only area not fully explained or retracted may have been if they were killed while fully asleep or if someone woke up and fought back ?
Also, one of them may have been on the floor.
Imo.

 

[fraudqueen]

To be fair, LE cant win either way because if they were saying nothing at all like they usually do, we would be complaining that we are speculating about nothing because nothing is actually known or verified from LE as they are not holding press conferences.

Look at the Delphi case where Liberty German and Abigail Williams were murdered in 2017 and the number of complaints regarding no updates or interactions from LE apart from the main press release in 2017 and again one in 2019.
They are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
Think of them as human beings who are likely working 18/20 hour days right now as this will be a very fast moving QUADRUPLE Murder investigation that is attracting International interest and the pressure on the Investigation team will be immense and unrelenting. It would be bad enough with one victim but with 4 , it’s almost like running the equivalent of 4 separate investigations under one huge umbrella and it will be a huge amount of work and sheer number of calls being made to the action line and each and every one has to be looked into and either acted upon or refuted justifiably.
Its no easy task ( from experience of leading Murder investigations).
The staff will be exhausted and probably running on coffee , junk food and adrenaline right now

You are right, I just wish their department would be accepting of more help with investigators from other bigger agencies. I know my hubby, Police Chief (retired), would have called in the biggest and best from any agencies. I do realize also forensics will take a long time. Was just hoping this was someone known to the students, but I'm really beginning to wonder about a thrill killer.

 

[AngTxGal]

Garshin drew up a wonderful one

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

I went ahead and made a layout of the house based on the crude sketch the landlord gave on the fox news article and the pictures available on zillow. The red numbers and arrows are matched to the same picture numbers on the zillow listing. The scaling of my layout probably is not the best but I...

www.websleuths.com

This GMA broadcast Nov 21, 2022
2 survivors likely asleep in basement
Thought a roommate had passed out- 2nd floor- not responding
Called friends Who Called 911, Many people spoke with 911 dispatcher
Officers arrived

2:26-2:52 AM calls to ex by K phone

E funeral today

2 victims 2nd floor
2 victims 3rd floor

Analysis by guest- circle of people possible could be larger than inner circle

 

[Emerald1328]

I know a lot of people mentioned how close Ethan’s fraternity is to the house, but this photo really provides prospective. Just to the left of the frat house is the house where the murders occurred. Don’t read the article because it’s old and filled with the mayor’s nonsense haha.

Idaho quadruple student homicide: 'Crime of passion,' 'burglary gone wrong' among possible motives, mayor says | Fox News

Idaho police are trying to narrow down a motive in the slayings of four college students, which could include "burglary gone wrong" or a "crime of passion."

www.foxnews.com

 

[Missyrocks5]

We do not know if bloody footprints, handprints,trail etc were or were not present in areas of the building. I have not read or heard official LE reports regarding any evidence left by the killer(s).

What I’m saying is, if there was blood, how did the girls NOT see it? That’s my point. I totally get you go up to a locked door try to open it, get no answer, call your friends. What I don’t get is, what we know to be 4 stabbings, HOW was there no apparent blood outside the room for the girls to see? I’m making an assumption that if they saw blood, they would’ve called 911 and not a friend. So again, that makes me think they did not see any blood.

 

[nightowl2728]

TIMELINE UPDATED in the media thread!
Please @ me with the source link if I've missed anything important!


SPECULATION/MOOs


I'd speculated that LE might have had an [unannounced, unpublicized] early POI that they were looking at but who, within the first day or so was eliminated (LINK TO MY POST ON THAT), thus explaining the early comments on it being "targeted," it being a "crime of passion," and the person not being a threat to others, and after listening to KG's family's latest interview and how vehement they were about defending him, I think her exbf may have been that early POI. LE would have been able to see those last calls and texts from both KG's and MM's phones (ASKING him to come over!) and assumed the ex did it, especially if the evidence pointed to KG being the target of the attack. But if the ex alibied out, they'd have to walk all that back and take a wider look.

This is so helpful!! Also thanks for confirmation that Kaylee was in town for weekend (points to her being target, IMO), but also new info that she complaint of a stalker months ago. Do we know if she was living with family in Coeur D'Alene at the time of the complaint, or in Moscow? Did possible stalker follow her there for weekend/go when "he" knew she was there (from social media)?

Edit: Re: your speculation that J was a POI and now isn't, why hasn't he been "officially" cleared? I think there was vague language from LE about the calls in the presser yesterday.

Speculation/MOO

 

[JaimeInLA]

I don't disagree, but if law enforcement thought that was the case, wouldn't they ask for video footage from before the time of the murders? I.e. earlier in the night?

It’s weird that they aren’t asking for that anyway. The killer obviously had to arrive at some point. But the timeframe of video footage they are asking for seems to suggest they are only looking for the killer’s departure, not his arrival.

Maybe because they have no idea when he arrived, and it could have been at any point during that afternoon or evening. ?? Maybe it’s just too big of a timeframe? So they are only looking for his departure window?

 

[Warwick7]

Certainly could be, maybe the roommates hear his phone alarm going off, they pound on the door and get no response so call his brother who lives real close by

I have had it in my mind strongly that E was in the hallway. But, after watching his parents interview--- her last sentence was "they were in the same room."

I now wonder too if the roommates hear his phone ringing and or his alarm going off over and over. Then they pound on the door and get no response--- so then they decide to call his brother who lives across the street.

Ok, now that said, @TL4S brought out in part something very important:

"From my understanding, the victims had all been asleep during the attack (several sources, including today's PC), but by the end, not all were killed in bed (see source below). I know some will suggest maybe E was sleeping on the couch or something, but I personally don't think that's what's being said here. I think whoever was killed first in the second floor bedroom, the other tried to flee and was killed on the floor of the bedroom..."

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

"Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday."

"Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate."

-------------------------
I think more and more that this is making sense. I now too am wondering if the killer locked the door after he left E and X.

It would also make sense to call his brothers or sister who lives right across the street. If the surviving roommates couldn't wake him or her up, a sibling(s) would have the right to make that judgment call to dial 911 because they feared he was unconscious.

This would also explain why they didn't need to get the roommates upstairs. They didn't need them to check on E and X, they needed a sibling.

 

[Sundog]

Much as many on here would like to hear that call, we have no right to hear it, do we? I don't live in the US so I could be wrong on that. We just have to sleuth with what we do know.

The media does have the right to ask LE to release 911 calls, but LE can argue that the release of the calls coud put a case in jeopardy, so a judge would decide after hearing arguments from LE and the media if the media takes it to court. 911 calls are public information according to sunshine laws in the U.S. (laws that require transparency).

 

[nightowl2728]

What I’m saying is, if there was blood, how did the girls NOT see it? That’s my point. I totally get you go up to a locked door try to open it, get no answer, call your friends. What I don’t get is, what we know to be 4 stabbings, HOW was there no apparent blood outside the room for the girls to see? I’m making an assumption that if they saw blood, they would’ve called 911 and not a friend. So again, that makes me think they did not see any blood.

Maybe they did see blood? Where does it say they didn't? Just because 911 call was for "unconscious person" as has been reported, multiple people here have said that's just emergency services lingo before a death is confirmed especially when they don't know if it's a homicide yet. JMO

 

[Snoopster]

Was any one able to link the Buddy the dog location info to one of the maps? If so please repost. Thank you!

I haven't seen it on any of the case maps yet, but here is the image of the 'Buddy' location from the DM article:

Woman living close to scene of Idaho murders says her dog was FILLETED

ETA: fyi...I don't believe that the dot for Buddy's house is in the exact right spot, but it is in the general area. I believe Buddy was attacked near the north end of Orchard Rd, just at the north end of Moscow. BTW, in the above image north is to the left and south is to the right.