ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

[hopewell]

Here is the thing...cops from this town saying one of the bloodiest crimes scenes they've ever seen isn's saying much....how many of these cops have even been a part of a murder case at all, let alone something like this. We are talking about Moscow, Idaho. Most of these LEs haven't encountered many gruesome crimes. That's not a slight to the LE in the area - they live in a beautiful, low-crime area. That's not their fault.

That doesn't mean they haven't seen videos of some pretty gnarly stuff during their trainings.

My opinion.

 

[Dutch77]

Circling back to the dog. We don’t know if the dog was found in the house-if he was, I imagine the scene may have been complicated further by the dog. Was he behind a closed/locked door, barking or asleep? Or did the killer open the door and let the dog run out before or after the murders? If the dog was missing after M&K came home, I doubt they would have just gone to sleep. They might have contacted the co-owner to make sure he didn’t have him. Were they looking for the dog, maybe even outside? Did they come across the killer while searching, who marched them back into the house and told them to be silent? What happened with the dog?

Perp could have let the dog out as he went in the house.

 

[wnk]

Why lock bedroom doors after killing?

If we are assuming that the reason why roommates didn’t see all the victims in their bedrooms because bedroom doors were locked , why would a killer take a moment to lock door before leaving the house ? I can’t stop thinking about this…

I would assume that the reason the killer would lock the door behind himself would be to buy himself more time before the bodies were found. That way if someone had heard him and come to investigate as he was leaving the house (or as he was making his way upstairs to the third floor), they'd first have to break down the door or find a key to get in to check on EC & XK.

 

[happyday]

My thoughts exactly! The owners of the dog still have the collar so I hope it can be tested (or was tested).

I'm so glad the skinned dog story is being mentioned and in the timeline. What are the chances of 2 sickos within a 3 mile radius of each other?

I think it could be important.

 

[LiamF]

Lots of shoes hanging from phone cables in this area.

 

[tokyorose]

I agree, if they don't find good DNA samples at the house, hopefully the dog's grave is dug up and tested forensically due to the close proximity of both incidents. I find it hard to believe someone can kill four people with a knife so effectively without some experience in killing animals first. It would be interesting to know if any other animals locally were found dead in unusual or unnatural circumstances. It also opens the somewhat unlikely possibility that the house was originally targeted due to the dog being present but that the plan changed when the groups arrived home.

Most deceased pets are cremated so unfortunately that evidence may be gone.We can hope he was buried though.

 

[Noki45]

Wonder if there was any social media bullying within the Greek sororities etc?

Lamima it’s certainly possible the suspect killed whoever slept in the master bedroom then locked the door and left out of the upper patio door.They could of left that bedroom as the last one then used the trees as a cover to leave.Hadn’t thought of that.

Guestwriter I’m wondering if LE are looking into the girls sorority house.Maybe one or 2 of the girls made a new pledge do things they refuse to do or treated them bad.Those sorority houses are notorious.MOI

 

[agreen36]

What I theorize re the 911 calls.

The downstairs roommates come to realization that something is wrong with a roommate on the 2nd floor. Possibly E is lying somewhere outside the bedroom and they can see him from a distance. Possibly they knock on the door to X's bedroom and are not getting a response (there could be an alarm going off, maybe they are not answering phone calls). Regardless we can assume they are not aware of the full scene. They only mentioned one individual being passed out and no matter how scared they were, if they realized they were dealing with a murder victim I still think they call 911 rather than go get a friend.

To me this means that either they did not get up to the 2nd floor (ie E's body was visible without going up the stairs completely) OR there was minimal blood visible on the 2nd floor outside of the bedroom. Either none or a small enough amount that didn't call 911 right away. That would be surprising to me, given the crime, but I suppose it's not impossible.

Now they've gathered that something is wrong with either E or X and they "summon" a friend. Was this the correct move to make? No, it wasn't. Is this implausible? Absolutely not. They were young girls who were probably coming to realization something very bad was going on. They were scared. When I was in middle school my neighbor across the street was the same age as me and her microwave caught fire when she was home alone. Instead of calling 911 she ran across the street and knocked on my door. I was also home alone and answered so I ran over with her and told her to call 911 while I put the fire out. Now she was younger than these girls but still, the obvious answer in this scenario was to call 911 not let the fire burn while you run across the street! But people get scared, panic and do stupid things.

Again, I don't think they made the RIGHT decision but it isn't a suspicious decision.

 

[otto]

Since there is such a steep slope in the backyard, it would be easy for someone to sit on that hill and look directly into the bedrooms at the back of the house. Someone could easily see who was awake or asleep in those back bedrooms before entering the house via the kitchen patio door.

Latah County

Floor plans posted in previous threads. I added the paths.

 

[Manwel]

I would assume that the reason the killer would lock the door behind himself would be to buy himself more time before the bodies were found. That way if someone had heard him and come to investigate as he was leaving the house (or as he was making his way upstairs to the third floor), they'd first have to break down the door or find a key to get in to check on EC & XK.

This. It's extremely simple. Buy time. Create difficulty accessing the bodies. Distract from it looking like an outright homicide.

 

[DoubleH518]

Do we have any confirmation of what happened to the dog the night of the murders? Was it there or with J?

 

[Manwel]

What I theorize re the 911 calls.

The downstairs roommates come to realization that something is wrong with a roommate on the 2nd floor. Possibly E is lying somewhere outside the bedroom and they can see him from a distance. Possibly they knock on the door to X's bedroom and are not getting a response (there could be an alarm going off, maybe they are not answering phone calls). Regardless we can assume they are not aware of the full scene. They only mentioned one individual being passed out and no matter how scared they were, if they realized they were dealing with a murder victim I still think they call 911 rather than go get a friend.

To me this means that either they did not get up to the 2nd floor (ie E's body was visible without going up the stairs completely) OR there was minimal blood visible on the 2nd floor outside of the bedroom. Either none or a small enough amount that didn't call 911 right away. That would be surprising to me, given the crime, but I suppose it's not impossible.

Now they've gathered that something is wrong with either E or X and they "summon" a friend. Was this the correct move to make? No, it wasn't. Is this implausible? Absolutely not. They were young girls who were probably coming to realization something very bad was going on. They were scared. When I was in middle school my neighbor across the street was the same age as me and her microwave caught fire when she was home alone. Instead of calling 911 she ran across the street and knocked on my door. I was also home alone and answered so I ran over with her and told her to call 911 while I put the fire out. Now she was younger than these girls but still, the obvious answer in this scenario was to call 911 not let the fire burn while you run across the street! But people get scared, panic and do stupid things.

Again, I don't think they made the RIGHT decision but it isn't a suspicious decision.

All victims were in beds.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

It was on the timeline posted here with reference. You can find it in this thread. 2AM-5AM - updated estimated TIME OF DEATH [58]

I understand it is. I remember seeing this when it came out and disagreeing with it then. I didn't take the time to prove my point in depth. But if we look at the source in the timeline @wnk created it links to this article.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268898017.html

(you have to click on the article to see that the writer is just showing all the events that happened between 2 and 5)

It seems to be a timeline heading of sorts and is NOT just for time of death.
The time of death links to an article that shows Cathy Mabbutt said early morning hours. I will include a screenshot as well.

2 a.m. to 5 a.m.
This is when Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt said the homicides occurred. Moscow Mayor Art Bettge previously told the Statesman that police told him they believed the deaths were 3-4 a.m.

So if you click on the name Cathy Mabbutt that they are using for their source, it says this:
She said the time of death for Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves is likely in the early morning hours Sunday. Police have shared that the four students were likely at King Road residence sometime after 1:45 a.m.



And here is the article link that they use to quote Cathy Mabbutt. It is also linked in her name above.

Coroner: Autopsies confirm cause of death for UI students was stabbing. 'It would have had to been a large knife'

Following Wednesday’s autopsy of the four University of Idaho students found dead Sunday near campus, the Latah County coroner confirmed the cause of death was murder by stabbing.

dnews.com

Anyway, I see this as a misinterpretation by ws'ers that may not have looked at the article link and realized the 2-5 was a timeline heading itself and not a true statement of time of death. I believe some chose to rely on how the text transferred to a post here which looks much different than viewing the article. In my opinion, our timeline should be changed back to 3-4 as that makes the most sense anyway.

TIMELINE UPDATED in the media thread!
Please @ me with the source link if I've missed anything important!




SPECULATION/MOOs

I think that the "locked door theory" posed by Websleuthers makes a TON of sense and explains some of the things I was struggling to understand. If EC & XK's door was still locked, no one was answering it, and they weren't answering their phones (which maybe the others in the house could even hear), I could see the roommates panicking and calling friends first to come help figure out what's going on, and then someone finally saying, 'we'd better call 911.'

LE should definitely be looking into the connection with Buddy the Australian Shepherd. From the articles, it sounds like Buddy's owners lived in a more rural area, west of campus, and that Buddy was killed around the same time of night/early morning as the students' homicide. With the rabbit and Buddy's attack both taking place in that same area, I'd definitely be taking a very close look at people who lived near Buddy's family, especially those that generally work a second- or third-shift schedule that would allow them to be regularly awake and out and about at those hours -or- people from that area that work on or near campus.

I'd speculated that LE might have had an [unannounced, unpublicized] early POI that they were looking at but who, within the first day or so was eliminated (LINK TO MY POST ON THAT), thus explaining the early comments on it being "targeted," it being a "crime of passion," and the person not being a threat to others, and after listening to KG's family's latest interview and how vehement they were about defending him, I think her exbf may have been that early POI. LE would have been able to see those last calls and texts from both KG's and MM's phones (ASKING him to come over!) and assumed the ex did it, especially if the evidence pointed to KG being the target of the attack. But if the ex alibied out, they'd have to walk all that back and take a wider look.

 

[Snoopster]

Given that location on the outskirts of town, near what look like natural or cultivated fields, I highly suspect Buddy and the rabbit were attacked by coyotes.

I live on the outside edge of a metropolitan area, with some similar area nearby and occasionally see individual coyotes in some of the natural walking trail parks here (especially at dusk). And when I take my own dogs out into my own yard at night, I can sometimes hear packs of coyotes whooping and yelping as they hunt at night down below the plateau I live on. The sounds send my two 60-lb dogs running for the door and I’m right there with them!

Around here, they typically kill small dogs, cats, and rabbits. But, when in packs, they will go after larger animals that are alone.

Police investigated and determined it wasn't caused by another animal. They described the dog as having been skinned. It sounds like it was tidy, purposeful skinning, like a deer. I won't go into more description, you can read it in the Daily Mail article and I don't want to gross people out here. In general there was slicing involved and not gnawing or puncture wounds that a coyote would cause.

 

[AgithaBoots]

Perp could have let the dog out as he went in the house.

News reports say dog was at home when police arrived

 

[Warwick7]

why does everyone keep insisting that E went to investigate after hearing something? just because he's a dude? there's no official information about his body not being in the bed and it was said at the press conference today that everyone was attacked in their sleep

In the press conference LE stated:

When LE was asked who was sleeping on what floor? He said he wouldn't divulge that "because that would be part of the picture."

Between the press conference and the ME, yes they were sleeping but both E and X had defensive wounds.

Then ME goes on to explain not everone was found in bed like orginally stated.
------------------------
.

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate

 

[AgithaBoots]

Lamima it’s certainly possible the suspect killed whoever slept in the master bedroom then locked the door and left out of the upper patio door.They could of left that bedroom as the last one then used the trees as a cover to leave.Hadn’t thought of that.

Guestwriter I’m wondering if LE are looking into the girls sorority house.Maybe one or 2 of the girls made a new pledge do things they refuse to do or treated them bad.Those sorority houses are notorious.MOI

I believe k and m were in different sororities

 

[heartandsoul]

Do we have any confirmation of what happened to the dog the night of the murders? Was it there or with J?

I don’t think we do. Some reports mention the dog being in the residence when LE arrived. There was also a report of a loose dog in the area that night, some sleuthers believe it could be related. But I don’t believe we know for certain one way or another at this point. Happy to be corrected though, this is a fast paced thread.

 

[otto]

Could someone post the written press release from LE that came out yesterday. I can't find it.

This was released just before yesterday's press release

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594157280018468865

 

[agreen36]

All victims were in beds.

Has this actually been confirmed though? The coroner said at least "some" of the victims were in their beds but wouldn't say how many. The police said they were likely all sleeping when attacked but that doesn't mean they were found in their beds. If one had managed to survive the initial stabbing in the bed they could have managed to drag themselves towards the door or into the living area before passing away.

I don't remembering seeing any confirmation that all four victims bodies were found in their beds but I could have missed it.