ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 8

[sundaaaay]

Derrick Todd Lee was active in our community

Interesting that he had been arrested for stalking women and watching them in their homes (LINK). This reminds me of a case in Hull (UK) called Libby Squire (LINK). She was killed in a student town after a night out drinking by a man pretending to offer her a lift home, and was later found in the river. The case is clearly different to this as it has no clear sexual intent, however it was discovered during that case that the perp had been a serial offender in the area for a long time, looking into girls windows getting changed, masturbating in public, breaking into students houses when they weren't there etc. He had escalating behaviour and because student towns are very transient, it was difficult to catch him. With many of these cases, including The Golden State killer, their killing streak begins with much more petty crimes.

I wonder had any other petty crimes occur in the area in recent months, whoever did this knows how to sneak around a house, they know ho to get in quietly, they likely watched and waited from the outside patiently. I wonder did he frequently look through other student houses at night from afar.

 

[Sunny Texas]

I have wondered about some element of fanaticism as a motive in this case which I am finding very disturbing also. These kids seemed delightful and very happy people, and there does not seem, from what I can see, that they had lots of personal drama going on which would create a motive.

Some killers might deliberately target those he perceives are delightful and happy.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

I have wondered about some element of fanaticism as a motive in this case which I am finding very disturbing also. These kids seemed delightful and very happy people, and there does not seem, from what I can see, that they had lots of personal drama going on which would create a motive.

That makes me think , imho, it was a stalker….student or townie that that he’d never been in the house before or he’d have known about the girls downstairs. So not a friend.

 

[jcamh]

My thought pattern is that one of those men who were outside the food truck, saw these very attractive, semi-intoxicated blonde girls and followed them home. If one of them had a dog, the first thing you do when you get home is take your dog out to pee. So, if the killer was lurking outside of the house after following the girls home, he could have forced his way in the sliding door as she went back in with the dog. Or, the sliding glass door was left unlocked. I know the police said they cleared one creepy guy who was at the Food Truck, but I saw multiple guys who could possibly be suspects.

 

[whiterhino]

My thought pattern is that one of those men who were outside the food truck, saw these very attractive, semi-intoxicated blonde girls and followed them home. If one of them had a dog, the first thing you do when you get home is take your dog out to pee. So, if the killer was lurking outside of the house after following the girls home, he could have forced his way in the sliding door as she went back in with the dog. Or, the sliding glass door was left unlocked. I know the police said they cleared one creepy guy who was at the Food Truck, but I saw multiple guys who could possibly be suspects.

JMO but don't think the killer followed behind the victim after a dog walk as the victims were found in their beds w defensive wounds.

FWIW I'm just getting up to speed on this case.

 

[SquirtWeb]

First-time poster. I've read where police have recently suggested that the skinned dog is not connected to the murders. Does anyone have a better sense of whether that was a conclusive finding of no connection (i.e., they had evidence to rule it out), or whether that it was
more of a "we don't currently have information to connect them."? I ask because I have a theory about the person who committed the dog crime. And if one were to keep open the possibility if a connection between the incidents, my theory leads to some very interesting coincidences, imo. Not sure if the dog crime connection is still potentially relevant though, and don't want to share if it will just distract from focus. Can anyone advise? Not completely sure what rules are in this regard.

 

[CeeMDubs]

Hi all Long time lurker, first time poster. Glad to be here.

Many things about this case have been hard to comprehend. The information/misinformation is causing a lot of confusion as well.

I would like to contribute a theory about a detail in question - the “unconscious person” issue.

I believe (as has been stated by multiple people) that the term “unconscious person” was used by the emergency operator and not the person calling 911.

Another strange detail is the fact that the roomie reportedly “summoned” friends before calling 911.

One theory that makes sense to me is this:
The roomie slept late and is in their 1st floor bedroom either a) already on the phone chatting with a friend, or b) has received a call from a friend/relative looking for EC because he is not answering his phone.

The roomie goes upstairs, either a) to the kitchen for coffee/breakfast or b) to find EC for the caller.

The roomie finds at least one murder scene while on the phone. They would obviously become very upset and probably worried for their safety. I believe the person they were speaking to on the phone may have been very close by and headed/ran directly to the house while staying on the phone with the roomie.

Once they arrive at the house, the roomie hangs up and 911 is called.
The operator then asks (per procedure) if the person is conscious or unconscious, etc.

I think this explains both issues in a way that is plausible and relatable.

(This is my first post and I am trying to learn the rules. I apologize in advance if anything is incorrect or not allowed.)

 

[Bree1950]

I was a college student in Baton Rouge when Derrick Todd Lee was active in our community. That period in my life is what led me to develop such an interest in these cases - all the whys and what ifs. I worked in the mall at the time and spent the entirety of the investigation looking at every single customer and thinking "could he be the one?". I was afraid every time I walked to my car in the dark. I called the police once when I had a flat tire at night near DTL's dumping grounds because I was afraid to get out of my car on the interstate, in the dark, alone. Then I called the police again when the officer got there to make sure it was the officer, because we'd heard rumors of DTL pretending to be police to gain access to his victims. While I didn't know any of the victims personally back then, I had several mutual friends with each of the college age victims. That experience has largely contributed to the anxiety I developed as a parent, especially as my kids are now 17 and 18. A college freshman and high school senior. I track them religiously - not to invade their privacy, but just to know they are safe. I wake up every morning and immediately check my college freshman's location to make sure he made it back to his apartment. I trust no one when it comes to random people/acquaintances. I can't begin to imagine the trauma and ptsd that will permanently alter the lives of the siblings, parents, surviving roommates, everyone closely connected to these victims. Every second of every day for the rest of their lives - the way they see and interpret the world around them will be permanently altered and significantly skewed by these events. The wake of this case will be deep and widespread. My heart hurts for everyone involved.

So sorry for your experience of terror! I was in College in Washington when Ted Bundy was on the loose!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

First-time poster. I've read where police have recently suggested that the skinned dog is not connected to the murders. Does anyone have a better sense of whether that was a conclusive finding of no connection (i.e., they had evidence to rule it out), or whether that it was
more of a "we don't currently have information to connect them."? I ask because I have a theory about the person who committed the dog crime. And if one were to keep open the possibility if a connection between the incidents, my theory leads to some very interesting coincidences, imo. Not sure if the dog crime connection is still potentially relevant though, and don't want to share if it will just distract from focus. Can anyone advise? Not completely sure what rules are in this regard.

Welcome to Websleuths!!!!

 

[Bree1950]

Perhaps Sleeping WHEN initially attacked but then I believe Xana and/or Ethan woke up and perhaps tried to leave and escape after the physical altercation. Can happen even with lethal knife wounds. There was that one guy who got hit in the head with an axe and still made his morning coffee and went to get the newspaper out front before collapsing on the stoop.

If I remember correctly the Coroner updated and said one victim was on the floor

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Welcome

Hi all Long time lurker, first time poster. Glad to be here.

Many things about this case have been hard to comprehend. The information/misinformation is causing a lot of confusion as well.

I would like to contribute a theory about a detail in question - the “unconscious person” issue.

I believe (as has been stated by multiple people) that the term “unconscious person” was used by the emergency operator and not the person calling 911.

Another strange detail is the fact that the roomie reportedly “summoned” friends before calling 911.

One theory that makes sense to me is this:
The roomie slept late and is in their 1st floor bedroom either a) already on the phone chatting with a friend, or b) has received a call from a friend/relative looking for EC because he is not answering his phone.

The roomie goes upstairs, either a) to the kitchen for coffee/breakfast or b) to find EC for the caller.

The roomie finds at least one murder scene while on the phone. They would obviously become very upset and probably worried for their safety. I believe the person they were speaking to on the phone may have been very close by and headed/ran directly to the house while staying on the phone with the roomie.

Once they arrive at the house, the roomie hangs up and 911 is called.
The operator then asks (per procedure) if the person is conscious or unconscious, etc.

I think this explains both issues in a way that is plausible and relatable.

(This is my first post and I am trying to learn the rules. I apologize in advance if anything is incorrect or not allowed.)

Welcome

 

[Sunny Texas]

I am interested in exploring the Murphy and Ethan angles. For those of you interested as well, can you spin out your scenarios from this perspective?

Currently, I am thinking about these murders from a thrill kill/stranger scenario. If I were an opportunistic killer who had scoped out this house in the past, I wouldn’t necessarily expect a dog and athletic young man to be in the house.

Here’s how the scenario might go:

I’ve been moving around the campus for some time, living out of my vehicle or a camp site. A house occupied by a number of young women has caught my attention.

I return to the house by foot or bike around 3:30am. I am prepared with a knife and gun and a back up. I am not noticed, as in this college town on a busy fall weekend, lots of young people are about. All seems quiet. I slip inside through the unlocked sliders. Still quiet.

I walk into Xana’s bedroom, where it is mostly dark, but for some electronics. There are two figures in the bed, neither moving. One appears to be a male. I approach, and with one swift movement, dispatch the male. This awakens the female, who attempts to fight me. She starts yelling, and I subdue her, but not without a fight.

A dog begins barking in another room in the house. I stand and wait, carefully listening. The two on the bed are quiet, but the dog continues to bark. I leave the room, triggering the knob lock, just to provide one more barrier between my victims and the hall.

Standing outside the room, I listen again to the dog. It is upstairs, and there is no other noise.

I walk upstairs towards the barking, carefully opening a door. The dog barks furiously. A swift kick to the dog quiets him, and I attack the two young women on the bed with my knife. They are subdued quickly, and the dog is quiet, cowering in a corner.

All is quiet again. I notice I have some injuries from the attacks, and my adrenaline is wearing off. I still have to leave the scene and so I take off, locking the bedroom door behind me.

I leave the way I came in and head back to my residence, wherever that may be.

Yes, yes, yes! People keep speculating E got up and went to investigate, etc, etc. What we have been told is that all 4 were attacked in bed, likely while sleeping. No one went anywhere before they were attacked, and several didn't go anywhere at all. If anyone moved, it was likely as they were bleeding to death and trying to get away. I also believe the attacks happening in the beds would have kept the killer relatively clean as most of the blood would have a place to collect.

What it actually says is they believe they were asleep before they were attacked. That leaves room for the possibility that any of them could have been asleep but awakened if they heard noise, if they had to use the restroom, etc. We also know that they didn't all end up in their beds. At least Ethan ended up on the floor, reportedly in the hallway outside his bedroom. In my opinion, X also awakened and fought the attacker and sustaining defensive injuries. If so, she could have ended up on the floor against the wall of the bedroom, which could account for the blood stains on the exterior of the house where located. (Although various media outlets reported that was blood, we can't be sure those reports were accurate.) In this photo, the corner of the house facing the camera front and slightly left is where the "blood" is located. Just on the backside of where the 2nd level meets the 1st level right above the sloping ground. If X ended up right against the wall there, it's possible enough blood could drip out if there were cracks where wall met floor there. We know that the floors are not carpeted, and the laminated surface may shed liquid that direction rather than absorb it. This is all speculation, but it seems a possible scenario. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F71lwea.jpg&hash=20f9344707c0989eda791e1d6b34cd8c

 

[Bree1950]

Maybe the assailant was invited in the house very late, like after 3 am. Perhaps he was seen by all four victims while everyone was still socializing, in the kitchen or living room. People go off to bedrooms at some point, and this is when he attacks his intended target. His motivation for killing all of them is that he was seen by the others before the attack.

I think this is very probable! People go off to bed, maybe person crashes on couch, then when everyone falls asleep he commits the crime!

 

[sunshineray]

JMO but don't think the killer followed behind the victim after a dog walk as the victims were found in their beds w defensive wounds.

FWIW I'm just getting up to speed on this case.

One of the victim's father mentioned early on the coded lock on the front door and maybe the killer got in the sliding glass door at the back of the house.

 

[Bree1950]

That’s an interesting thought! 11/22 at house number 1122!

 

[Bree1950]

Theory #1: I think younger male (under 35), loner/possibly antisocial, military or police wannabe type. I think possibly they even tried out for military or police and didn't get in or got kicked out. They're into tactical gear and maybe used it. Maybe this guy is even a security guard on campus or somewhere. Maybe couldn't get a gun to do a typical mass murder, so choose knife and victims he knew would get national media attention. I think he wants notoriety and is relishing the attention.

Theory #2: An ex of some sort where it was simply crime of passion with collateral damage victims not all expected to be there

I feel it is a college student who knew all or some of the victims. I feel they may be in the ROTC program at the College. I feel this was done with jealousy and deep anger mixed with feelings of rejection.

 

[Bree1950]

IIRC, K's parents said during the interview that when K was staying with them recently at their home for a week and a half, she was frequently reaching out to J about the dog, andabout coming over, etc. They weren't talking about the phone calls that K made to J on the morning she was murdered.

We don’t see possible texts? Possibly Jack texted he would come over and when they heard someone, they didn’t alert thinking he had arrived?

 

[Allabouttrial]

Hi all Long time lurker, first time poster. Glad to be here.

Many things about this case have been hard to comprehend. The information/misinformation is causing a lot of confusion as well.

I would like to contribute a theory about a detail in question - the “unconscious person” issue.

I believe (as has been stated by multiple people) that the term “unconscious person” was used by the emergency operator and not the person calling 911.

Another strange detail is the fact that the roomie reportedly “summoned” friends before calling 911.

One theory that makes sense to me is this:
The roomie slept late and is in their 1st floor bedroom either a) already on the phone chatting with a friend, or b) has received a call from a friend/relative looking for EC because he is not answering his phone.

The roomie goes upstairs, either a) to the kitchen for coffee/breakfast or b) to find EC for the caller.

The roomie finds at least one murder scene while on the phone. They would obviously become very upset and probably worried for their safety. I believe the person they were speaking to on the phone may have been very close by and headed/ran directly to the house while staying on the phone with the roomie.

Once they arrive at the house, the roomie hangs up and 911 is called.
The operator then asks (per procedure) if the person is conscious or unconscious, etc.

I think this explains both issues in a way that is plausible and relatable.

(This is my first post and I am trying to learn the rules. I apologize in advance if anything is incorrect or not allowed.)

Hmmm now there's a thought! Entirely possible and plausible answer that I could get behind.

 

[CeeMDubs]

Thank you for the welcome.

It’s been really hard to speculate the type of person who did this, but as someone who has had insomnia as of late - it must have been absolutely terrifying to wake up to the murderer in the middle of the night. I’m glad that it sounds like none of them were alone (MM/KG and XK/EC being in close proximity of each other, possibly even all sharing rooms.)

And thinking about being the perp and creeping around in the dark and carrying out these acts on 4 sleeping people, over and over..it’s just unimaginable.

Especially thinking about it while in a dark, quiet house around the same time the murders happened…IMO the person must be either completely void of emotion or full of rage. I don’t see how else you are able to commit these acts.

 

[Allabouttrial]

If I remember correctly the Coroner updated and said one victim was on the floor

No I don't believe she has said that.

ETA: My apologies. I was wrong. @tayaway kindly linked the article.