ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[Rayemonde]

I just Googled "underground adoption market". There's scads of articles. Here's one from NPR, a reputable source:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...als-underground-market-for-re-homing-adoptees

The article only talks about adopted kids or orphans being passed around to new homes illegally... Most of them were adopted from abroad, it says. These kids fall under the radar, sadly. But are there actually any "underground adoption markets" that abduct small children in order to sell them on to childless couples? Any verified cases of people snatching small, blonde-haired tots away from their loving families? Any evidence that young, blonde, white children are worth a lot of money in the underground adoption market?

 

[Mickshawn]

The article only talks about adopted kids or orphans being passed around to new homes illegally... Most of them were adopted from abroad, it says. These kids fall under the radar, sadly. But are there actually any "underground adoption markets" that abduct small children in order to sell them on to childless couples? Any verified cases of people snatching small, blonde-haired tots away from their loving families? Any evidence that young, blonde, white children are worth a lot of money in the underground adoption market?

I'll keep digging....

 

[bluesneakers]

If the family believes DeOrr was abducted, by a stranger or someone they know, why would they think speaking up couldn't help? If he was lost in the woods, I can see how talking about him wouldn't help, but not if he might be found alive somewhere. JMO

My whole point was I think his mother has given up. I think she believes there's nothing she can do to help or bring him home.

 

[gliving]

Someone should write a handbook for how grieving parents of missing children should behave in public because apparently none of them are doing it right.

Mark Klaas has a fantastic action plan for parents of missing children. Focusing on keeping the public informed and interested. But you are right, no one tell can a grieving parent how to act.

http://klaaskids.org/missingkids/ Link to his vast resource knowledge bank.

Media Relations

"Cooperate with the media. They can be intrusive and annoying, but a television reporter can broadcast an image and the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a son/daughter to more people in 30 seconds than you can accomplish stapling flyers to telephone poles for 100 years. They can ask questions that feel prying and insensitive but ultimately are valuable."

Within a week of Deorr going missing the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children became involved and they also offer an excellent program to assist the families.

There are so many organizations willing to help families of the missing. I wish the Kunz's would request Texas EquuSearch help them search.

 

[kammiemc]

I never did "get it right." Twenty years ago it was, cry and they say hysterical, don't cry and you're cold and uncaring. Now it's "I don't understand how you get out of bed" along with "it's been twenty years, move on/get over it, etc." I am who I am. My emotions are what they are. My actions have been varied and possibly bizarre at times, but none of that ever changed the fact that I never hurt my child, and he was still gone. This poor mother. I'm all too familiar with being in an awful situation in that unique locale and culture.

I am so sorry for your loss. I don't pretend that I can imagine what you have been through. I don't think there is any "right way" to respond such a horrifying situation. I would be lucky to continue functioning at all. (I might be screaming at that camera and possibly put in an institution, in fact.) and I would not be over it 20 years later.

I am sorry if any scrutinization of the people involved in this case has been personally hurtful. This family has lost a child and, no matter how that happened, that is beyond tragic and anyone would be broken.

Yes, there are things that haven't made sense in this case. If they did make sense, little DeOrr would be found.
Yes, the radio silence has been confusing to US, because we don't know what has been going on. But one thing we do know is that the FBI won't conclude anything based that radio silence or based on sound bytes.

Still, we laypeople can't always help ourselves from trying to find clues through behavior (though TOS can be a good guide or we have to go on vaca!)

It's all too easy to think one can spot the S. Smiths and C.Anthony's of the world upon their first public statements. (I thought I could. I did, I guess.) But I could have just as easily been mistaken had things turned out differently.

But in this case, I have no sense about the parents at all. It doesn't mean I am suspicious of them. I am suspicious that SOMETHING happened to little DeOrr. Just what?




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[bluesneakers]

I am so sorry for your loss. I don't pretend that I can imagine what you have been through. I don't think there is any "right way" to respond such a horrifying situation. I would be lucky to continue functioning at all. (I might be screaming at that camera and possibly put in an institution, in fact.) and I would not be over it 20 years later.

I am sorry if any scrutinization of the people involved in this case has been personally hurtful. This family has lost a child and, no matter how that happened, that is beyond tragic and anyone would be broken.

Yes, there are things that haven't made sense in this case. If they did make sense, little DeOrr would be found.
Yes, the radio silence has been confusing to US, because we don't know what has been going on. But one thing we do know is that the FBI won't conclude anything based that radio silence or based on sound bytes.

Still, we laypeople can't always help ourselves from trying to find clues through behavior (though TOS can be a good guide or we have to go on vaca!)

It's all too easy to think one can easily spot the S. Smiths and C.Anthony's of the world upon their first public statements. (I thought I could. I did, I guess.) But I could have just as easily been mistaken had things turned out differently.

But in this case, I have no sense at al about the parents at all. It doesn't mean I am suspicious of them. I am suspicious that SOMETHING happened to little DeOrr. Just what?




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How do you figure? To me even if we had all the answers and it all made sense he could still be missing. A child going missing, imo, doesn't always have to make sense. So I'm curious which answers do you think would locate him?

 

[kammiemc]

How do you figure? To me even if we had all the answers and it all made sense he could still be missing. A child going missing, imo, doesn't always have to make sense. So I'm curious which answers do you think would locate him?

I'm sorry blue sneakers, I didn't mean to imply that I could personally locate little DeOrr if certain questions were answered. I meant that if all the puzzle pieces fit perfectly, the puzzle would be solved. And it's not. Things are missing.

Whether it is that a mountain lion got away with him and left no trace, or that a stranger was stalking and waiting for an adult to turn their head, or someone at the campsite knows something. Something is not making sense.

I don't think this would be the first disappearance of a child that doesn't make sense. Who could have guessed P. Klaas? Seriously? She was at her own slumber party.

I don't think knowing how the timeline discrepancies were resolved would help the case, if that's what you mean.



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[Wyle_E_Coyote]

The article only talks about adopted kids or orphans being passed around to new homes illegally... Most of them were adopted from abroad, it says. These kids fall under the radar, sadly. But are there actually any "underground adoption markets" that abduct small children in order to sell them on to childless couples? Any verified cases of people snatching small, blonde-haired tots away from their loving families? Any evidence that young, blonde, white children are worth a lot of money in the underground adoption market?

There was a lot of talk about underground adoption rings when Madeleine McCann went missing. I was skeptical then and I'm skeptical now. Seems to me there simply aren't enough children who go missing to feed such an organization.

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[kammiemc]

I care very much about this little boy being found, but I am not going to post on this thread until we know something definitively because I feel that it is hurtful to some people if another poster doesn't have 110% commitment to the conclusion that none of the POI's know anything. And I'm at like "have no idea"%. So instead of trying to pretend I know, I will wish good luck. Really crossing fingers for the FBI.


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[bluesneakers]

I never did "get it right." Twenty years ago it was, cry and they say hysterical, don't cry and you're cold and uncaring. Now it's "I don't understand how you get out of bed" along with "it's been twenty years, move on/get over it, etc." I am who I am. My emotions are what they are. My actions have been varied and possibly bizarre at times, but none of that ever changed the fact that I never hurt my child, and he was still gone. This poor mother. I'm all too familiar with being in an awful situation in that unique locale and culture.

Eta: I misread, thought you said "grieving parents," not specifically missing kids. My child was never missing, thank goodness, not thank goodness we were violent crime victims but my point still stands, I just wanted to clarify.

I knew what you meant. And the truth is people judge grieving parents no matter the circumstances. I'm sorry you've had to personally experience it. :hug:

 

[Suthrnqt]

I care very much about this little boy being found, but I am not going to post on this thread until we know something definitively because I feel that it is hurtful to some people if another poster doesn't have 110% commitment to the conclusion that none of the POI's know anything. And I'm at like "have no idea"%. So instead of trying to pretend I know, I will wish good luck. Really crossing fingers for the FBI.


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Right there with you, kammie.
Going to lurk mode… on this thread anyway.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm sorry blue sneakers, I didn't mean to imply that I could personally locate little DeOrr if certain questions were answered. I meant that if all the puzzle pieces fit perfectly, the puzzle would be solved. And it's not. Things are missing.

Whether it is that a mountain lion got away with him and left no trace, or that a stranger was stalking and waiting for an adult to turn their head, or someone at the campsite knows something. Something is not making sense.

I don't think this would be the first disappearance of a child that doesn't make sense. Who could have guessed P. Klaas? Seriously? She was at her own slumber party.

I don't think knowing how the timeline discrepancies were resolved would help the case, if that's what you mean.



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I see what you mean now. I didn't think you meant you could personally locate him, I read it as if you (we) had the answers he wouldn't be missing. I agree it doesn't make sense and that makes it all kind of sad and scary. I think we want things to make sense so we know what to do. It would be nice to live in a world where we were guaranteed if we followed the steps our children wouldn't go missing, but unfortunately we don't live in that world and children go missing every day.

JMO.

 

[gliving]

I knew what you meant. And the truth is people judge grieving parents no matter the circumstances. I'm sorry you've had to personally experience it. :hug:

I so agree.

My opinion, this is a very private journey for Jessica. I send her my blessings for strength and hope.

I will be watching for news on Monday about the reenactment. Very curious about this.

 

[wondering25]

Updated story with video:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...hopeful-two-months-after-toddler-disappeared/

Wow! What a mess.The grandma clearly loves her daughter and is trying to be supportive over the loss of Deorr. I dont think there is a manual for how to comfort your daughter when her 2 year old vanishes. They think he was abducted and then they search in the woods. ya know.. they have no idea what to do. JMO. There just may never be a resolution to this. Everyone in the video looks broken. The parents seem so YOUNG! Just rambling here but seeing the video rattled me. MOO Sadly, the window of opportunity to really get the word out has passed, imo.

 

[sonj]

Perhaps little Deorr's parents are pushing for the abduction scenario, because in my (uneducated) opinion, that's the only real scenario I can think of in which Deorr could possible still be alive. Maybe it's their last shred of hope, and they're clinging to it. Maybe they know deep down that it's highly unlikely, which would explain their lack of media involvement.

Regardless, I want to give a big shoutout to Nate Eaton for trying to keep this disappearance alive and fresh in people's memories. He was the one to track down Issac Reinwald, He was at the first interview, and I personally believe that without his compassion and search for truth this story would of been long buried like all the other cases that never even make it slip through the cracks and go cold from the beginning.

Don't take this as an insult to our Websleuth community, but I'd just like to say thanks to Nate, wherever he is, for doing more to keep this missing child's story alive than anyone one of us here at websleuths, and I hate to say it but it appears also, more than Deorr's family themselves.

Without Nate I think this case like I said, would of just fallen through the cracks.

Whatever happened to Deorr, whether he succumbed to the elements, or something more nefarious happened, I pray it was quick and painless. May the sweet little boy that everyone here has grown to care about and cherish rest in peace. I hate to say it, but it's been almost over 8 weeks by my count. I have little to no hope for Deorr's safe recovery, as sad as it is to admit.

Wherever Deorr is, he deserves to be given a proper place of burial, and that involves not giving up in the search for the truth, wherever that road may lead us. What a horrible tragedy.

I've been a long time lurker, but this is the thread that prompted me to sign up. Perhaps it's because I have a sweet little nephew almost the exact same age as Deorr. I can't imagine what they must be going through. Whatever happened during those 25-45 minutes perhaps we will never know for sure. Regardless, I hope he is found soon and laid to rest with dignity. The thought of him being out there through winter just breaks my heart.

 

[Rayemonde]

There was a lot of talk about underground adoption rings when Madeleine McCann went missing. I was skeptical then and I'm skeptical now. Seems to me there simply aren't enough children who go missing to feed such an organization.

There was a recent case in El Salvador where a woman's light-skinned baby was switched with a darker skinned baby in the hospital. The parents (Richard Cushworth and Mercy Casanellas) were all over the media saying that their baby had been sold to human traffickers by the hospital...

They’re convinced the doctor was in on it all along, and that their biological son has been trafficked in Central America, a victim of a black market that trades in white skin.

But it seems that it was just a mix-up at the hospital, and the babies have now been swapped back.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-four-month-old-time-handed-real-parents.html

 

[Arnie M]

.

Good post sonj .... welcome , glad you are here.

.

 

[Cardinal47]

Sorry to disagree but I don't think there have been too many hero's for missing DeOrr.

Too me Nate the reporter did an article when SM roared about nothing being reported in the newspapers. Then much criticism about questions not asked and soft interviews with both the sheriff and the parents.

To be fair I don't think he is an investigating reporter. He probably was hired to cover local news.

Everybody has been caught off guard by this disappearance.

I too saw the video and don't know what to think.

Is this a family in the depths of despair or a family riddled with guilt?

None of us know.

We are all waiting tor the FBI report. Don't expect too much. If they had found anything noteworthy there would have been an arrest.

I honestly think they are just as puzzled as we are.





















I too saw the video and don't know what to think

 

[KayCherry]

Welcome and thought out words, thank you....

Perhaps little Deorr's parents are pushing for the abduction scenario, because in my (uneducated) opinion, that's the only real scenario I can think of in which Deorr could possible still be alive. Maybe it's their last shred of hope, and they're clinging to it. Maybe they know deep down that it's highly unlikely, which would explain their lack of media involvement.

Regardless, I want to give a big shoutout to Nate Eaton for trying to keep this disappearance alive and fresh in people's memories. He was the one to track down Issac Reinwald, He was at the first interview, and I personally believe that without his compassion and search for truth this story would of been long buried like all the other cases that never even make it slip through the cracks and go cold from the beginning.

Don't take this as an insult to our Websleuth community, but I'd just like to say thanks to Nate, wherever he is, for doing more to keep this missing child's story alive than anyone one of us here at websleuths, and I hate to say it but it appears also, more than Deorr's family themselves.

Without Nate I think this case like I said, would of just fallen through the cracks.

Whatever happened to Deorr, whether he succumbed to the elements, or something more nefarious happened, I pray it was quick and painless. May the sweet little boy that everyone here has grown to care about and cherish rest in peace. I hate to say it, but it's been almost over 8 weeks by my count. I have little to no hope for Deorr's safe recovery, as sad as it is to admit.

Wherever Deorr is, he deserves to be given a proper place of burial, and that involves not giving up in the search for the truth, wherever that road may lead us. What a horrible tragedy.

I've been a long time lurker, but this is the thread that prompted me to sign up. Perhaps it's because I have a sweet little nephew almost the exact same age as Deorr. I can't imagine what they must be going through. Whatever happened during those 25-45 minutes perhaps we will never know for sure. Regardless, I hope he is found soon and laid to rest with dignity. The thought of him being out there through winter just breaks my heart.

 

[blefuscu]

They all just look so shattered